Why is accelerator pedal response so slow? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)

E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:59 PM
jeeper1974 jeeper1974 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 29
Mein Auto: 2010 BMW 535i
Why is accelerator pedal response so slow?

I looked at 10-20 different posts talking about this issue without any working resolutions. Maybe a new post will generate something I haven't tried.

I have a 2010 BMW 535i(E60) with 131K miles that has about a 1-2 second response delay between pressing the accelerator pedal and engine responding. This is most noticeable when moving from a complete stop. The pedal is pressed....1 second ...2 second ... lift off. I've got used to it enough so I just press the pedal a little until it starts moving so I'm not launching off the stop every time, but for any car this seems like a safety issue. The engine does not rev up. It just appears to be sleeping until 1-2 seconds pass. Is this normal?

I've tried the transmission adaptation reset. No effect
I've reset the throttle body. No effect.
I've reflashed the transmission module and engine module with the latest SP-DATEN files. No effect.
It has a new fuel filter. No effect.
No codes are present.

My 2008 X5 had a similar throttle lag issue until I burned up the ECU and got a new one installed (Long story!) but I thought its fix was related to the new program on the ECU. Re-programming my E60 has not solved it.

Looking through the forums it looks like this is a common issue. Some say get an aftermarket accelerator pedal sensor, others say reset the transmission, some say its a cam sensor, a Vanos seal leak, an O2 sensor, the MAP sensor, the Mass air flow sensor, and some say its normal turbo lag. I don't know what direction to look now.

I'm all for fixing the problem if it is a problem and not a character of BMWs. Do BMWs commonly have very poor throttle response times? If not, what is the first thing I should replace to fix this issue? Right now it looks like a random part replacement approach is my next option to try and fix this issue. Thanks. Roger
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 08-26-2019, 05:11 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charleston, SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,690
Mein Auto: 2008 X5 4.8i E70 Sport
I had a Lexus with hesitation/ delay due to bad o2 sensors. The MAF could need a cleaning. Have you looked at all the data your scanner provides? Sounds like you have a BMW scanner.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
__________________
2008 X5 E70 4.8i M-Sport
2008 550i RPI Exhaust, RPI Ram Air
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-26-2019, 05:45 PM
jeeper1974 jeeper1974 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 29
Mein Auto: 2010 BMW 535i
I will see if I can see anything on the monitor when I take off from a stop. I was thinking about the O2 sensors also and went ahead and got some on order and will try to replace the upstreams first and see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the suggestion.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 08-26-2019, 06:02 PM
Sgop335 Sgop335 is offline
Registered User
Location: Maryland, us
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 36
Mein Auto: 07 335i, 08 535i
The 535i does not have a maf sensor.
It could be old worn turbos, vacuum leaks, boost leaks etc. etc.
__________________
Space grau metallic / Dakota red leather
335i 0-60 3.8s, 535i 4.1s

Last edited by Sgop335; 08-26-2019 at 06:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-26-2019, 06:22 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charleston, SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,690
Mein Auto: 2008 X5 4.8i E70 Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
The 535i does not have a maf sensor.
It could be old worn turbos, vacuum leaks, boost leaks etc. etc.


It does have an MAF sensor. https://www.bmwpartsnow.com/oem-part...SABEgIc1vD_BwE


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app
__________________
2008 X5 E70 4.8i M-Sport
2008 550i RPI Exhaust, RPI Ram Air
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-26-2019, 09:22 PM
jeeper1974 jeeper1974 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 29
Mein Auto: 2010 BMW 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
The 535i does not have a maf sensor.
It could be old worn turbos, vacuum leaks, boost leaks etc. etc.
How does a faulty turbo delay the engine pedal response. I can see turbo lag reducing the initial torque, but this is flat out the car is not moving and the engine rpms don't even tick up for a good 1-2 seconds. Driving today on the road I looked at the response time while the RPMs were around 2000 and I tapped the pedal a little further and it was still about a second before I saw the RPMs move.

Besides O2 sensors, any other suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-27-2019, 02:25 AM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charleston, SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,690
Mein Auto: 2008 X5 4.8i E70 Sport
Weak fuel pump? All just guesses. A good scanner with live data could show you how the systems are responding.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
__________________
2008 X5 E70 4.8i M-Sport
2008 550i RPI Exhaust, RPI Ram Air
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-27-2019, 03:40 AM
pshovest pshovest is online now
BMW CCA 69606
Location: DE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,919
Mein Auto: '15 435i '10 535i '08 X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyUnicornTaco View Post
It does have an MAF sensor. https://www.bmwpartsnow.com/oem-part...SABEgIc1vD_BwE.....[/url]

No it doesn't. It has a MAP sensor.
That link is for.......128i. X3. X5. Z4. 2007-10. 3.0L gas. 3 series. Without diesel. Coupe & convertible, 3.0L without turbo......

Last edited by pshovest; 08-27-2019 at 03:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-27-2019, 03:47 AM
pshovest pshovest is online now
BMW CCA 69606
Location: DE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,919
Mein Auto: '15 435i '10 535i '08 X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeper1974 View Post
I will see if I can see anything on the monitor when I take off from a stop. I was thinking about the O2 sensors also and went ahead and got some on order and will try to replace the upstreams first and see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the suggestion.
You should read the codes before you replace parts. Defective O2 sensors will certainly turn on the check engine light. Also check live data for boost pressure, should ~0.4 bar at idle. Check the vacuum hoses that control the turbo wastegates via solenoids above exhaust manifold.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-27-2019, 04:27 AM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charleston, SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,690
Mein Auto: 2008 X5 4.8i E70 Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
No it doesn't. It has a MAP sensor.
That link is for.......128i. X3. X5. Z4. 2007-10. 3.0L gas. 3 series. Without diesel. Coupe & convertible, 3.0L without turbo......


Touché


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app
__________________
2008 X5 E70 4.8i M-Sport
2008 550i RPI Exhaust, RPI Ram Air
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-27-2019, 05:32 AM
Sgop335 Sgop335 is offline
Registered User
Location: Maryland, us
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 36
Mein Auto: 07 335i, 08 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeper1974 View Post
How does a faulty turbo delay the engine pedal response. I can see turbo lag reducing the initial torque, but this is flat out the car is not moving and the engine rpms don't even tick up for a good 1-2 seconds. Driving today on the road I looked at the response time while the RPMs were around 2000 and I tapped the pedal a little further and it was still about a second before I saw the RPMs move.

Besides O2 sensors, any other suggestions?
I see. A datalog could help. We used MHD for datalogs and flashing. In your case, a Monitor module from MHD is may be $50 but will help a lot for datalogging and error codes.
If the rpms are not going up wouldn't that imply throttle body is fully closed...
__________________
Space grau metallic / Dakota red leather
335i 0-60 3.8s, 535i 4.1s

Last edited by Sgop335; 08-27-2019 at 05:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:34 AM
jeeper1974 jeeper1974 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 29
Mein Auto: 2010 BMW 535i
It looks like there are still a lot of theories, but nothing that someone can point a finger at and say "THIS will cause a lag in accelerator pedal response." Similar to what I've read in other posts. So either this is a very rare condition or every car has this pedal response lag by design and there is no fix.
The only case study fix was @BabyUnicornTaco with his Lexus replacing the O2 sensors. I'm not throwing any O2 error but is it possible that over time O2 sensors slow in their response time? That would make sense having over 130K miles on the car and is looking like the first parts to replace regardless if it fixes it or not.

The only errors code I've got is a "Low Boost" from a few days ago when I hit it hard on the freeway. Powering off, then on, this error goes away. I haven't got the error since. This problem with the pedal has been present for over a year though. Would a vacuum leak always throw an error? Would it cause this pedal lag?

Unfortunately, I've only had this car for a year so I can't look back to a time when it didn't have this lag. It has just gotten to the point where I'm thinking this is not right.

I'll hook up my Carly data viewer and/or get out my laptop and connect up the BMW tools to see the info. Is there a tool that can plot the pedal location vs. RPMs?

Thanks for the suggestions and help.

Last edited by jeeper1974; 08-27-2019 at 08:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:47 AM
jeeper1974 jeeper1974 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 29
Mein Auto: 2010 BMW 535i
@pshovest - I've looked at the vacuum hoses and they look ok. I will have to pull the plastic cover off to do a better inspection, but outside the cover they look ok. I don't know if any are weak and collapse under vacuum, though, so that could cause issues with the turbos. Would it cause an accelerator pedal to engine response lag? I thought the turbos don't even kick in until 2K. With the engine idling, there is a noticeable delay hitting the pedal.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:10 AM
zoom750 zoom750 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Mein Auto:
Is it not due to the drive-by-wire system? I installed the Burger Motorsports Pedal Tuner to address this problem. In my opinion it helps, but does not completely eliminate the lag. But certainly better than before.

The MHD tune also has a "Linear Throttle Mapping" option available.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:11 AM
pshovest pshovest is online now
BMW CCA 69606
Location: DE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,919
Mein Auto: '15 435i '10 535i '08 X5
My car jumps off of idle. If I cross over paint strips the tires will chirp/squeal easily from a stop. There is so little lag it's sometimes difficult to start smoothly, no brag, just fact. My car is completely stock w/82K. It's tough to tell if your problem is throttle response or just the engine being down on power, hence most of the replies are about being down on power. Not sure about Carly, but with INPA/ISTA you should be able to view/confirm the gas pedal signal increases w/pedal travel. Same for the throttle plate. Need to confirm that the throttle plate is indeed moving quickly when you nail the loud pedal. Carly has extensive parameter data, but I've never looked or used anything gas /throttle related.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-27-2019, 11:04 AM
twh twh is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Fairfax, VA
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,315
Mein Auto: '06 530xi 6sp, '09 X5 3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
Not sure about Carly, but with INPA/ISTA you should be able to view/confirm the gas pedal signal increases w/pedal travel. Same for the throttle plate. Need to confirm that the throttle plate is indeed moving quickly when you nail the loud pedal. Carly has extensive parameter data, but I've never looked or used anything gas /throttle related.
+1 on these tests. The pedal is drive by wire and you can see if the pedal response is quick or lagging or erratic.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-27-2019, 01:24 PM
Sgop335 Sgop335 is offline
Registered User
Location: Maryland, us
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 36
Mein Auto: 07 335i, 08 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeper1974 View Post
It looks like there are still a lot of theories, but nothing that someone can point a finger at and say "THIS will cause a lag in accelerator pedal response." Similar to what I've read in other posts. So either this is a very rare condition or every car has this pedal response lag by design and there is no fix.
The only case study fix was @BabyUnicornTaco with his Lexus replacing the O2 sensors. I'm not throwing any O2 error but is it possible that over time O2 sensors slow in their response time? That would make sense having over 130K miles on the car and is looking like the first parts to replace regardless if it fixes it or not.

The only errors code I've got is a "Low Boost" from a few days ago when I hit it hard on the freeway. Powering off, then on, this error goes away. I haven't got the error since. This problem with the pedal has been present for over a year though. Would a vacuum leak always throw an error? Would it cause this pedal lag?

Unfortunately, I've only had this car for a year so I can't look back to a time when it didn't have this lag. It has just gotten to the point where I'm thinking this is not right.

I'll hook up my Carly data viewer and/or get out my laptop and connect up the BMW tools to see the info. Is there a tool that can plot the pedal location vs. RPMs?

Thanks for the suggestions and help.
Yes there are tools like others have suggested as well.
Here is a 3rd gear log from my 535i, you can play w diff parameters but you can look at pedal, throttle w rpm

https://datazap.me/u/sgop335/535i-3-...&******2-22-26
__________________
Space grau metallic / Dakota red leather
335i 0-60 3.8s, 535i 4.1s

Last edited by Sgop335; 08-27-2019 at 01:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-27-2019, 05:58 PM
PtownSwede PtownSwede is offline
Registered User
Location: Pleasanton, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
Mein Auto: 2008 BMW E61 - N54
Have you had a BMW mechanic drive the car and comment? Is it just perception after driving another car?

My throttle is slower to respond than my wife's Mazda SUV, which is twitchy to the point of annoyance. I chalked it up to huge weight, turbos, and the car starting in second gear (automatic). How does it start in first gear using manual mode?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-27-2019, 06:46 PM
mr_smith mr_smith is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 12
Mein Auto:
I had forgotten about the lag. Drove 10-12 E60/E61's before I found my 08 550i (no lag). Over half had this horrible lag. Was about to give up looking for a BMW because the first 3 cars I drove had that issue, 4th one gave me hope they weren't all like that. You press on the gas and it sits there and sits, then finally goes. Interested to see if there is a good solution to the issue, was surprised how widespread that issue appears to be in the population of these cars.

Last edited by mr_smith; 08-27-2019 at 07:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-27-2019, 07:05 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charleston, SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,690
Mein Auto: 2008 X5 4.8i E70 Sport
A Lexus is not a BMW but it happened a lot for me for a while. It wouldn’t throw a CEL. I would go to pass someone, speed up to merge, or move from a traffic light and I could see and feel the lack of response. Easily 1-2 seconds. Began to make me nervous about crossing lanes to turn into my development because I lost the ability to accurately judge the response of the pedal. Eventually it threw a code for an o2 sensor. My cats were fine. Each time I replaced the o2 sensor it drove like new. I put 172,000 miles on that Lexus and sold it with the CEL on for the o2 sensor. Now the response due the the bad o2 sensor was much more noticeable when I punched the gas. Maybe you can read the live data from your o2 sensors.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
__________________
2008 X5 E70 4.8i M-Sport
2008 550i RPI Exhaust, RPI Ram Air
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-27-2019, 10:47 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Fremont, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 141
Mein Auto: E61 535xi Deep Sea Blue
What you're describing is not normal. Even without an MHD Stage 1 tune on mine, my 535xi was still plenty quick when hitting the gas. Your car almost sounds like it has the BMW wastegate rattle tune on it. I suggest you log the car and ensure your vacuum lines, etc, do more than just 'look good'. Vacuum test everything, ensure the wastegates function normally, use good 91 octane fuel, log, etc. Did I mention logging? LOL

Where in CA are you? If in the SF region I'd be happy to take a look at it with you.
__________________
2008 535xi E61 Touring Wagon / 100k Miles / Deep Sea Blue / Natural Brown / MHD Stage 1 Tune

Last edited by MysticRob; 08-27-2019 at 10:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-28-2019, 08:09 AM
jparnes1 jparnes1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,063
Mein Auto: 2011 Z4 35i, 2006 525xi
Throw your shift lever over to the left and drive in manual mode. Your car is transformed. Goodbye lag.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
__________________
2016 340i XDrive, Estoril Blue / Black, 6 MT, M Sport, Track, Lighting, Technology, Driver Assistance Plus, Cold Weather.

2012 Z4 35i, ED 2/24/12, Melbourne Red Metallic, Black leather, 6 MT, ///M Sport, Premium Package, Premium Sound Package, Cold Weather Package, Nav, Comfort Access, LED Angel Eyes, BMWPedals pedal covers, stubby antenna, Luxon strut bar, CF engine cover, LCI side marker, powder coated calipers, Extra Enjoyment Package
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-28-2019, 12:36 PM
PtownSwede PtownSwede is offline
Registered User
Location: Pleasanton, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
Mein Auto: 2008 BMW E61 - N54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
Throw your shift lever over to the left and drive in manual mode. Your car is transformed. Goodbye lag.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
That's the first thing I thought when I drove the car, coming from the land of manual transmissions. "What the heck? This things in second gear!" That is definitely my lag problem, but the OP is mentioning 1 to 2 seconds.

Just from a dead start, or even when passing? Lag is not unusual. But a full second does sound like it's something other than a second gear lag.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-08-2019, 06:37 PM
jeeper1974 jeeper1974 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 29
Mein Auto: 2010 BMW 535i
Having been one to always repair my own cars, I've been hesitant to wave the white flag and surrender to this issue, but I think it is time. After spending 6 hours in an attempt to replace the O2 sensors, ( 1. Because the car has over 100K miles and 2. Had a thought that a lazy O2 sensor would cause a slow throttle response) I found no easy way to access the O2 sensors without dropping the exhaust pipes which requires removing one of the motor mounts. Too much effort for a whim test. Buttoned everything back up and sent the new O2 sensors back.

What I've done so far
1. I've reflashed the ECU for the engine and transmission with the latest firmware available online with no effect
2. I've cleaned the MAP sensor
3. Replaced the Air Filter
4. Replaced the fuel filter

Switching the transmission into manual mode provides little change in the response time. It just takes off faster when it does respond because it starts in 1st instead of 2 gear.

I've also noticed that it has a slow response just reving the engine in park. Very similar to an engine with a non-pumper carburetor that takes a second when opening up the throttle before the gas flows in and the engine RPS increase.

I fear I'm going to pay a few hundred dollars for the mechanic to say "This is normal." I guess the cost of my own time I'm spending has already cost more than that few hundred dollars.

Any recommenced shops in the San Francisco Bay Area? San Jose specifically?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-08-2019, 07:01 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Fremont, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 141
Mein Auto: E61 535xi Deep Sea Blue
Sooooooo, no logging eh?
__________________
2008 535xi E61 Touring Wagon / 100k Miles / Deep Sea Blue / Natural Brown / MHD Stage 1 Tune
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories

Tags
acceleration hesitation, acceleration holds back, engine response


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.