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E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:47 AM
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Head up display ( HUD ) questions

Hello, I'm trying to gather as much information about the HUD system as possible sins I'm trying to figure out if it would be at all possible to retrofit a HUD in the 7 series E65.

1. Is there any difference between the facelift hud and pre facelift hud or any in between versions?

2. Is the pre facelift hud compatible with the ACC2 active cruise Control system?

3. Is the CCC really needed for the HUD to function even partially?

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  #2  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:53 AM
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Do you have an existing hud?
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
Do you have an existing hud?
No. It was not available from factory. But that does not have to mean that it's impossible to retrofit. That's what I'm trying to find out with my questions.

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Old 09-10-2019, 01:19 AM
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ok... well, im pretty sure we have discussed this here before a few times..

every few years someone wants to get a hud.. and the general consensus is that it will cost more then the total value of the car

as far as adding hud the a car that doesnt have it.. its not that bad there are a few modules and a few parts you have to buy, plus some light coding (*turning options on)

your car is ready to receive the items require to make the hud work.. Its just those parts cost thousands of dollars used... (*i think someone figured out its like close to 4-5,000$) *worth of used parts

now what your asking is can the hud from a e65 fit in a e60... Id take a guess that most of it except the projector would work... bmw likes to keep it simple the dash boards are different.. so i dont know if the projector is the same.. Id imaging they are..

you can probably poke around on realoem.com and get some general idea's for part numbers and pictures

i know the price sounds wrong.. because you see used huds for 165$ but there is a lot more.. its not as simple as just slapping a box in your dash, Do some pokeing around the forum maybe someone else will locate that thread for you, but there is a thread with all the part numbers required

then the removal of the dash and so on
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
now what your asking is can the hud from a e65 fit in a e60...
To clarify this.
I want to retrofit a hud from an E60 into an E65 that never was available with any sort of hud in any model/version.

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Old 09-10-2019, 01:55 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
To clarify this.
I want to retrofit a hud from an E60 into an E65 that never was available with any sort of hud in any model/version.

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I stopped thinking of this, just because to cut the hole and insert the HUD into the dash, one have to sacrifice the front windshield blower tube. That was my reasining for not to buying another dash...
There is just not enough space, I think. However I haven't made any measures.

After looking around of most appropriate HUDs I realized that e60 and e70 would be best options. I guess both could be rather compatible with the can messaging in e65. I just have an example that my FLA is from e70 which works perfectly, and even faster than original two I had before from e65s.

I concluded that the e70 HUD would be the best option since the e60 HUD has some kind of callibration which is mechanical. I understand that in order to make the contrasted projection You have to calibrate the image/beams so that when refelcting from your windshield they would provide the image as necessary and vertically and horizontally adjusted to an optimal driving position.
After reading some TIS material about e70 HUD, my understanging was that e70 has the calibration options available by software, and not by hardware comparativelly to the e60.
So I concluded that after retrofitting a HUD into a place which is not factory prepared for it, software coding for calibration could be much more convenient than physical adjustments.

Anyway, I really would like to retrofit HUD. That's a cool thing. However, I probably will not sacrifice the windshield blower tunnel, defrosting windshield is really necessary in my country. I suppose that in nordic countries as well. When I changed my cracked windshield I inquired for a version which could have the defroster in it, but I received the answer that such windshields are not availabke for e65s. So the blower tunells are necessary. So I stopped.

Please share Your considerations, since that could be probably best e65 retrofit ever.


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  #7  
Old 09-10-2019, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
ok... well, im pretty sure we have discussed this here before a few times..
I was not able to find anything related to my questions.

Quote:
every few years someone wants to get a hud.. and the general consensus is that it will cost more then the total value of the car
Cost is not an issue as at this stage I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible to see if it is even possible from a theoretical perspective.

Quote:
as far as adding hud the a car that doesnt have it.. its not that bad there are a few modules and a few parts you have to buy, plus some light coding (*turning options on)

your car is ready to receive the items require to make the hud work.. Its just those parts cost thousands of dollars used... (*i think someone figured out its like close to 4-5,000$) *worth of used parts
Thank you I will take a look. Right now I have only red all Tis documents I could find about the hud system trying to figure out where and how it gets the information to display it.

Quote:
now what your asking is can the hud from a e65 fit in a e60... Id take a guess that most of it except the projector would work... bmw likes to keep it simple the dash boards are different.. so i dont know if the projector is the same.. Id imaging they are..
See my last post

Quote:
you can probably poke around on realoem.com and get some general idea's for part numbers and pictures
I will do that.

Quote:
i know the price sounds wrong.. because you see used huds for 165$ but there is a lot more.. its not as simple as just slapping a box in your dash, Do some pokeing around the forum maybe someone else will locate that thread for you, but there is a thread with all the part numbers required
I'll see what I can dig up

Quote:
then the removal of the dash and so on
Yes that would be a problem and cutting it up.



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Old 09-10-2019, 03:19 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
I stopped thinking of this, just because to cut the hole and insert the HUD into the dash, one have to sacrifice the front windshield blower tube. That was my reasining for not to buying another dash...
There is just not enough space, I think. However I haven't made any measures.

After looking around of most appropriate HUDs I realized that e60 and e70 would be best options. I guess both could be rather compatible with the can messaging in e65. I just have an example that my FLA is from e70 which works perfectly, and even faster than original two I had before from e65s.

I concluded that the e70 HUD would be the best option since the e60 HUD has some kind of callibration which is mechanical. I understand that in order to make the contrasted projection You have to calibrate the image/beams so that when refelcting from your windshield they would provide the image as necessary and vertically and horizontally adjusted to an optimal driving position.
After reading some TIS material about e70 HUD, my understanging was that e70 has the calibration options available by software, and not by hardware comparativelly to the e60.
So I concluded that after retrofitting a HUD into a place which is not factory prepared for it, software coding for calibration could be much more convenient than physical adjustments.

Anyway, I really would like to retrofit HUD. That's a cool thing. However, I probably will not sacrifice the windshield blower tunnel, defrosting windshield is really necessary in my country. I suppose that in nordic countries as well. When I changed my cracked windshield I inquired for a version which could have the defroster in it, but I received the answer that such windshields are not availabke for e65s. So the blower tunells are necessary. So I stopped.

Please share Your considerations, since that could be probably best e65 retrofit ever.


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... and there was another issue, that it requires also most connection, which makes it more unclear.
In addition, there are some special windshields which do not make doible projections fron inner and outer surfaces of the glass. If that' so, then custom made anti-reflecting coatimg probably would certainly not be a cheap alternative. Don't even know if that's possible at all.

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  #9  
Old 09-10-2019, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
... and there was another issue, that it requires also most connection, which makes it more unclear.
In addition, there are some special windshields which do not make doible projections fron inner and outer surfaces of the glass. If that' so, then custom made anti-reflecting coatimg probably would certainly not be a cheap alternative. Don't even know if that's possible at all.

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I think the MOST connection is only for navigation vectors messages and possibly even check controll messages if that isn't over canbus from the cluster.

This is why I asked in the original question if the CCC is actually needed for the HUD to function even partially?

For instance it gets the ACC messages directly over can from the ACC whis is the same in both e60 and e65 so it should at leas be able to display cruise control information without anything else.
And the speed information comes from the engine ECU that is also the same I both models also over the canbus. Possibly that te can messages go by the gateway module from some units before they come to the hud so the gateway also needs to be compatible.


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Last edited by vibbelito; 09-10-2019 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:38 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
I think the MOST connection is only for navigation vectors messages and possibly even check controll messages if that isn't over canbus from the cluster.

This is why I asked in the original question if the CCC is actually needed for the HUD to function even partially?

For instance it gets the ACC messages directly over can from the ACC whis is the same in both e60 and e65 so it should at leas be able to display cruise control information without anything else.
And the speed information comes from the engine ECU that is also the same I both models also over the canbus. Possibly that te can messages go by the gateway module from some units before they come to the hud so the gateway also needs to be compatible.


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Well, then to my mind there are two issues mostly - the space in the dash and windshield relfection.
Not very promising to me

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  #11  
Old 09-10-2019, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Well, then to my mind there are two issues mostly - the space in the dash and windshield relfection.
Not very promising to me

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The windshield reflection I can live with I think without having seen it.
Also there is the question if the rain and light sensor needs to be changed or if it woud still function just without the extra fines that provides

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Old 09-10-2019, 03:45 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
The windshield reflection I can live with I think without having seen it.
Also there is the question if the rain and light sensor needs to be changed or if it woud still function just without the extra fines that provides

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I didn't get the RL sensor issue...?

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Old 09-10-2019, 03:50 AM
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I didn't get the RL sensor issue...?

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Old 09-10-2019, 03:54 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Ibthink this is related to the reflection of the head-up windshield. The principle of the 'ordinary' RL is conected to the both surfaces of the glass and light beam braking.
So, if there is no other surface reflecring, it probably somehow influences also the rain detection, I think...

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Old 09-10-2019, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Ibthink this is related to the reflection of the head-up windshield. The principle of the 'ordinary' RL is conected to the both surfaces of the glass and light beam braking.
So, if there is no other surface reflecring, it probably somehow influences also the rain detection, I think...

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So this can probably be ignored for now as well as the windscreen as that doesn't directly decide whether or not the hud will display anything at all if hooked up in an E65

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Old 09-10-2019, 03:59 AM
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So this can probably be ignored for now as well as the windscreen as that doesn't directly decide whether or not the hud will display anything at all if hooked up in an E65

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I guess so

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Old 09-10-2019, 04:00 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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I would have bough the HUD already, but the space in the dash. That's a pain.

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Old 09-10-2019, 09:52 AM
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Minor thread derailment:

Since we have super users here knowing all about HUD, maybe somebody can tell me why BMW couldn't make it work so I can see mine when wearing polarized sunglasses. When I have the sunglasses on, I can see the HUD if I tilt my head ~15 degrees either way from straight up. Other than that, love my HUD. (And my 17yo son learing to drive likes it so much he wants a car with HUD too (No, he's not getting mine)).
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by audiophool View Post
Minor thread derailment:

Since we have super users here knowing all about HUD, maybe somebody can tell me why BMW couldn't make it work so I can see mine when wearing polarized sunglasses. When I have the sunglasses on, I can see the HUD if I tilt my head ~15 degrees either way from straight up. Other than that, love my HUD. (And my 17yo son learing to drive likes it so much he wants a car with HUD too (No, he's not getting mine)).
Because physics happened



Fishers use this all the time to remove reflections from the water. And because a hud is nothing more than reflections on the windscreen you get the same results.

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Old 09-10-2019, 10:31 PM
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Because physics happened



Fishers use this all the time to remove reflections from the water. And because a hud is nothing more than reflections on the windscreen you get the same results.

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Old 09-11-2019, 09:24 AM
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Makes sense. But I really miss being able to read the HUD when wearing sunglasses, so I tilt my head and look like I've had a stroke whilst driving.
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Old Today, 02:42 AM
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So does anyone know what happens if the CCC idrive computer is disconnected or broken?
Does the HUD still function just without navigation info or won't it even turn on?

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