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Old 01-22-2018, 04:38 AM
bscudman bscudman is offline
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Stuck in Full 4WD

I am new to this forum so please bear with my wordiness. I know these must have come up before but I have not seem the subject on the 4WD sticking.

I would like to know where I should go from here. Which avenue to pursue. I hate going down multiple roads at the same time.

I have a 2008 X3 3.0Si with about 101,000 miles.

Let me outline my problems and my solutions so far :

Problems:
A. Sometimes after this trifecta/4x4 happens, after turning off the X3 overnight, the next morning it starts up with no lights and works perfect. This led me to the battery problem.
B. I am getting 5F3A or 5F39 codes but can clear them and all is well for a few drives.
C. I also get airbag error but no codes that I can read. I can clear the errors which state that the DSC cannot be read? I will get these errors again and post them.
D. Now I am noticing it being stuck in FULL 4WD mode with 4x4, ABS, brake, airbag lights all OFF, where the inner tire slips on the ground while turning tight and will not let go. I make a few tight turns and then shut it down for a few minutes. With the key on/engine off, it LURCHES forward slightly (like the actuator motor is disengaging the clutch pack in the transfer case) after the shut down and then I know it is out of 4WD mode. All the lights are on after restarting it.


My work done so far :
1. Got (4x4/SAS) light along with trifecta (ABS, airbag, brake)
2. Replaced both gears in actuator motor (white and black gears). Did not really need it at the time.
3. Replaced battery since I heard low voltage may cause sporadic problems
4. Checked alternator and it is good 14.5 minimum charging voltage
5. Checked connections at actuator motor. Look good and light and no corrosion.
6. Checked and cleaned all 4 wheel speed sensors. All look good and clean. No corrosion.
7. Checked all 4 tire diameters. All within 2 mm diameter of each other and with good tread.
8. I have removed, cleaned and reinstalled the SAS. Looked really clean anyway but I carefully cleaned and reinstalled. No change in errors.
9. I have not been able to get to the brake pressure sensor yet.
10. I bought a scanner which can handle OBDII and reset airbag and realign SAS
11. I changed all fluids (transmission, transfer case, F&R differentials) with BMW approved lubricants.
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  #2  
Old 01-22-2018, 05:10 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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xDrive differentials are open, not locking, so any difference in rolling radius/distance will be passed to the other wheel. The differential limited slip locking effect is accomplished with DSC.

Which is to say that an xDrive cannot be in "full 4WD," locked hubs, locked differentials, locked transfer case.
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Last edited by Doug Huffman; 01-22-2018 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:01 AM
bscudman bscudman is offline
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Stuck in FULL 4WD

Hi Doug.
I thought that too but I do know that when it gets stuck like this and I make full hard left or right turns, it hops around and the inner wheel is hopping around and skidding. This made me think that something is getting stuck and locking the hubs.

It does not happen all the time and unlocks after making a few tight turns, shutting her down and then restarting. It then lets go in the TC, all lights come on and drives fine.

Sometimes when all lights are off in the mornings and all codes are cleared, she drives perfectly in AWD, makes tight turns as she should and all is well like new.

I am just at a loss as to where to continue looking for the problem.

Bill
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:48 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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I am getting 5F3A or 5F39 codes

>transfer case internals ????....the codes you're getting often lead back to that

>read up on kenza and dfm experience in link ....best wishes

>was there debris in the transfer case oil ....was the oil kaput/low level

>how much can you rotate the transfer case shaft the the actuator actuates

>have y'all grasped the front drive shaft and check for slop back and forth when you rotate it

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...1#post11611121

post 32

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...1#post11363697
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:47 AM
DangermouseX3 DangermouseX3 is offline
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Check the level in your power steering reservoir. Mine was below low which gave the feeling that the front wheels were skidding going round a tight corner, but it seemed to be just the pump.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:57 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscudman View Post
Hi Doug.
I thought that too but I do know that when it gets stuck like this and I make full hard left or right turns, it hops around and the inner wheel is hopping around and skidding. This made me think that something is getting stuck and locking the hubs.

It does not happen all the time and unlocks after making a few tight turns, shutting her down and then restarting. It then lets go in the TC, all lights come on and drives fine.

Sometimes when all lights are off in the mornings and all codes are cleared, she drives perfectly in AWD, makes tight turns as she should and all is well like new.

I am just at a loss as to where to continue looking for the problem.

Bill
I had a truck with a locking (not just limited slip) rear differential. After locking, it briefly would do the same thing when I got back on pavement.

Doug's right. These cars don't have locking differentials. But, maybe there's something amiss with the wheel speed sensors causing the DSC to think a wheel is spinning.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:56 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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ISTA+ forum links

all you need to add is a low cost cable

>a link to bmw ista+ for your codes below ....best wishes

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?t=1023698

a link to how good the functionality of ista+ can be ....this is for the vanos operation but you can check/reset adaptations on a big range of things including the VTG (transfer case system/actuator etc)...you can watch all the wheel speed sensors in real time

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Old 01-22-2018, 10:23 AM
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The DSC will only allow properly formed wheel speed wave shapes - within quite tight limits - as legitimate input signals. Noise, as from a bad connection, will not get through. Imagine ABS function of DSC activating improperly.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:37 AM
bscudman bscudman is offline
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Stuck in 4WD

Thank you all for the great information.

This morning I started it up after clearing all the codes yesterday and all lights off and moving along fine.
I will start this weekend by cleaning and inspecting the 4 wheel speed sensors. Need a brake job anyway.

Is it true that the RIGHT/REAR wheel speed/ABS sensor is the one that reports back to the computer? I heard that thru another thread but cannot find it again in this forum.

I am very interested in getting the software for a dedicated laptop computer for system analysis. Is the Rheingold the same as ISTA+? I just need some explanation about where to buy the software (E series only), how to install it and use it. Will this also work with Mercedes, Porsche and Jaguars of which I have a few to work on.

Thanx again.
Bill
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:06 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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some tips

Is it true that the RIGHT/REAR wheel speed/ABS sensor is the one that reports back to the computer? I heard that thru another thread but cannot find it again in this forum.

>no ...loads of bmw are set up thus.....all 4 wheel speed sensors have inputs to the x drive/abs etc etc.....BUT ....if the right rear on many bmws is kaput it will knockout your cruise control and if the left rear is kaput your speedo will be impacted.....get the software rigged up first so you don't have to physically clean/check your sensors ....you can watch the sensor outputs from the software in real time thru the DSC module in most bmws

I am very interested in getting the software for a dedicated laptop computer for system analysis. Is the Rheingold the same as ISTA+? I just need some explanation about where to buy the software (E series only), how to install it and use it. Will this also work with Mercedes, Porsche and Jaguars of which I have a few to work on.

>the link on these forums I posted for ISTA+ (a piece of software under the loosely described "rheingold name ")is for E series self serve free download ....just research the cable you need.....subscribe to that forum and you will have tons of good info to work with.....BUT ....it only works on bmw
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:40 AM
bscudman bscudman is offline
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Some Tips

Thanx, SwampX3.

I will try and get the cable and download the software soon so I can get this resolved. Drives me nuts when all the lights are on.
She used to not tell me for a week or so that her oil light or some other important light is on.
Then she said "sorry . . . I forgot!!!"
Got her straightened out now and she tells me every day that these lights are coming on but not all the time.


Thanx again.
Bill
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:14 PM
mtbrdad mtbrdad is offline
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Been there Done that

Quote:
Originally Posted by bscudman View Post
Problems:
A. Sometimes after this trifecta/4x4 happens, after turning off the X3 overnight, the next morning it starts up with no lights and works perfect. ......

....With the key on/engine off, it LURCHES forward slightly (like the actuator motor is disengaging the clutch pack in the transfer case) after the shut down and then I know it is out of 4WD mode. All the lights are on after restarting it.
I've been through everything you're saying with an 07 X3 at right about the exact same mileage and here's the thread I wrote about it: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=846517 I would suggest reading my opening thread and then you can just skip right to post #47. My theory is that when I changed the gear in the actuator I damaged something in the motor I might not have made sure the brushes were still set correctly. If I was to do it again I might just buy one of those, I think it's the land rover actuators that are the same and just mount your original resistor onto it. Lately also I have just found out that if one of your tires has significantly different air pressure this will also cause the actuator to react and trigger the the transfer case around corners, I fixed that tire and they're all aired correctly and no more problems. Good Luck!
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:29 AM
bscudman bscudman is offline
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Stuck in 4WD . . . Sort of

I began downloading the ISTA+ software. Having trouble with the last 4GB 002 file. I will finish this evening and begin installation. Bandwisth problems at server. Have all other files.
I will be ordering a K-DCAN cable from BimmerSoftware.com. It seems that they make their own cables and stand behind their product.

Update on system inspections for Trifecta/4x4 lights:
1. I bought a Foxwell NT630+ unit that has OBDII, SAS, ABS reset/scan capability. I bought this on sale for $80 new because it works on all of the vehicles I own.
2. After resetting the errors after getting the trifecta and 4x4 lights and with no lights on the dashboard, I did a live-data run against the wheel speed/ABS sensors. They all were perfectly aligned with going straight and turning left & right.
a. I also checked all 4 sensors using the Diode setting on my unit. All checked within .03V and all POS & NEG sides aligned also.
b. I think I now can rule out a wheel speed sensor problem triggering the trifecta.
5. I also was able to do a live-data run against the steering angle sensor and it also worked perfectly. I cleaned it and reinstalled it thinking that would do something. Maybe it did but I was still getting the trifecta and 4x4 intermittently.
6. I will install the INSTA+ software and try interrogating the transfer case actuator motor to see if that is working properly.
7. Not sure what ISTA can do to interrogate the SAS. Thoughts on this?

Is there anything else I should be checking? I guess if all else check good then it must be an internal transfer case problem. Last resort . . replace transfer case. That I want to avoid !!


Thanx.
Bill
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:12 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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7. Not sure what ISTA can do to interrogate the SAS. Thoughts on this?

>solid job on the Foxwell ...well done !

>ISTA+ can you show steering angle in one degree increments in realtime.....just don't end up in the ditch driving it down the road and looking at the screen !

>because of the advance of many of the X's into geriatricity we advise everyone to follow/do the checks in DFM and KENZA experience posts for the transfer case looksee/rebuild options etc

>turn off tele and read the entire transfer case stickies in the FEST for a more round knowledge experience....budget a couple of hours ...well worth it to see the history alone


re visit the post from above

I am getting 5F3A or 5F39 codes
>transfer case internals ????....the codes you're getting often lead back to that

>read up on kenza and dfm experience in link ....best wishes

>was there debris in the transfer case oil ....was the oil kaput/low level

>how much can you rotate the transfer case shaft the the actuator actuates

>have y'all grasped the front drive shaft and check for slop back and forth when you rotate it

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...1#post11611121

post 32

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...1#post11363697

Last edited by swampX3; 01-31-2018 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:19 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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encyclopedia of X transfer case stickies

>see pic below

>view, study and inwardly digest these gems from back to 2004 ish
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Last edited by swampX3; 01-31-2018 at 02:03 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-25-2019, 06:52 AM
gray271 gray271 is offline
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@bscudman, Have you finaly find the problem?

I have a 328Xi 2011 And I have the same problem and I continue to search what cause this.

I changed the actuator and I calibrate it.
I checked in action my abs sensor with an OBD II scanner. Everything worked well.
I changed the transfercase fluid.

This bug begun when I changed my transfer case actuator. I Changed it because I already had a transfer case code.
Before I had any transfer case code, I changed all my bearings.

When I start the car, everything works well. But after 5 min, I cant do more than 1 turn of my steering anymore. There's no clue that the transfer case locked during these 5 min...
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:44 AM
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Re-calibrate/replace the steering angle sensor, especially if you get the dash lights coupled with the airbag light.

That being said, you'll find more specific answers in the appropriate forum for your vehicle.
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:47 AM
gray271 gray271 is offline
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@duke,

I dont think it's a power Steering problem. When the 4 x 4 turn on, I can turn normaly.
I dont have airbag light, but I saw an airbag code...
And I have no difficulty to turn the wheel. The difficulty is to advance.
But It's only 10 box. I'll try it.

Last edited by gray271; 11-25-2019 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 11-25-2019, 09:59 AM
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dukedkt442 dukedkt442 is online now
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The SAS triggers the 4x4 code because the ECM is unable to accurately determine steering angle and therefore wheel rotation speed. This results in a momentary stiffness in the steering... the stiff steering actually has nothing to do with something in the steering but is caused by incorrect driveline torque application. Once the 4x4 light comes on, you won't have any issue steering because no torque is being sent to the front axle. The airbag code could be just coincidental.

It may not be SAS related but that's the first avenue I'd explore.
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  #20  
Old 11-26-2019, 12:42 PM
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I have been chasing the same issue with my 2008 X3. Be sure to check all of your ground cables. One of mine (the one from the body to the exhaust in the rear) was totally missing and the one under the front (you have to remove the metal stiffening plate to access) was corroded. This seems to have fixed my problem (at least for the time being).
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  #21  
Old 11-27-2019, 06:11 AM
gray271 gray271 is offline
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Thanks, I'll check it.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:46 AM
bscudman bscudman is offline
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Check battery. All my issues went away after I got the Rheingold software and got rid of all of the deep underlying codes. I was surprised to find some codes with Rheingold in areas of the different systems that were not showing with standard code readers.

I found that the battery needs to be always at top notch voltage and affects the days and tdc when it is not. The gyro needs all that power to start up and throws these codes if the battery is low.

Most effective way is to drive it 2 to 3 times per week for at least 30 miles one way to fully keep the battery charged. I h as he been doing this for over a year now and not a dash light in sight.

I did remove, disassemble and clean the steering angle sensor and that may have been part of it but even right after that cleaning I was still getting codes but sporadic. The full battery principle seemed to have solved it.

Bill
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