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  #1  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:47 AM
dak911 dak911 is offline
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Lug nut torque

After getting work done on tires/wheels do you re-torgue the lugs?
I recently decided to paint my calipers, (too much time on my hands being retired) it took a 30" breaker bar to loosen the lug nuts.
So whenever you have wheels removed be sure to check that you will be able to get the tire off one stormy night...(not that most have a spare...I do, 07 530xiT)
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2018, 06:00 PM
Glaird Glaird is offline
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Every single car I have ever owned, for the last 50 years, including my (2) BMW's, take ~ 88-90 ft-lbs of torque. It might also be a good idea to put a dab of spark plug anti-seize compound on each lug bolt (perhaps in 07 they really did use nuts), so it will go on/off with ease the next time. BTW, every time I get new tires, I always go through this exercise, as tire stores seem to hire neanderthals exclusively, as you discovered.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:43 AM
Titantim Titantim is offline
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I too ran into extra tight lug bolts on my wife's X5. I actually broke my breaker bar getting them off. I torqued them to 130 ft lbs when i re installed them. Much better if you have to change a flat on the road somewhere.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:57 AM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glaird View Post
Every single car I have ever owned, for the last 50 years, including my (2) BMW's, take ~ 88-90 ft-lbs of torque. It might also be a good idea to put a dab of spark plug anti-seize compound on each lug bolt (perhaps in 07 they really did use nuts), so it will go on/off with ease the next time. BTW, every time I get new tires, I always go through this exercise, as tire stores seem to hire neanderthals exclusively, as you discovered.
not recommended to put anything on the threads or seat of the lug bolts
It is important to make sure your threads are free of dirt, grit and other materials in order to achieve a proper torque. Do not apply anti-seize compound to the lug hardware or studs. This can result in inaccurate torque readings and/or over torquing of the hardware.
https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/yokoh...operly-torqued

I do put antiseize on the centerbore of the wheel to prevent corrosion and the welding on of the wheels.

torque spec of bmws using M12 bolts is 88ft/lbs
torque spec of bmws using M14 bolts is 103ft/lbs
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orient330inyc View Post
not recommended to put anything on the threads or seat of the lug bolts
it is important to make sure your threads are free of dirt, grit and other materials in order to achieve a proper torque. Do not apply anti-seize compound to the lug hardware or studs. This can result in inaccurate torque readings and/or over torquing of the hardware.
i do put antiseize on the centerbore of the wheel to prevent corrosion and the welding on of the wheels.

Torque spec of bmws using m12 bolts is 88ft/lbs
torque spec of bmws using m14 bolts is 103ft/lbs
+1
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:41 PM
dak911 dak911 is offline
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I torqued them to 90#...no anti-sieze, but iI did wire brush the S**T out of them before.
Something that I did not know...you should reset the torque settings on you wrench to zero after each use...
Do you ever recheck the lugs after a few hundred miles...I think I read that somewhere.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:41 PM
dak911 dak911 is offline
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I torqued them to 90#...no anti-sieze, but iI did wire brush the S**T out of them before.
Something that I did not know...you should reset the torque settings on you wrench to zero after each use...
Do you ever recheck the lugs after a few hundred miles...I think I read that somewhere.
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Old 03-14-2018, 04:16 PM
Glaird Glaird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dak911 View Post
I torqued them to 90#...no anti-sieze, but iI did wire brush the S**T out of them before.
Something that I did not know...you should reset the torque settings on you wrench to zero after each use...
Do you ever recheck the lugs after a few hundred miles...I think I read that somewhere.
As you noted, lug nuts/bolts, being particularly close to water, sludge, dirt, road oil, etc; get particularly dirty and rusty. That is why I use a dab of anti-seize, despite Doug's objections. And, you were wise and prudent to thoroughly clean the threaded surfaces before reassembly. Doug, does point out a legitimate danger in using lubricants on certain bolts, on certain precisions parts, when applying precise loads. But, I don't believe those are lug bolts/nuts.
In such cases, a bolt is designed to stretch, at the precise force specified, and deform at the same time it fastens. Say a cylinder head bolt, rocker arm mounting bolt, connecting rod bearing bolt, etc. Those bolts, once removed, must be discarded, as they are stretched and unusable again. And, all that force accounts for the friction between a "clean" bolt, "clean" threads, and a precisely milled set of parts to be fastened. None of which, one would find around the wheel of a car.
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:00 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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from rogue engineering:


Z3 forum:
http://www.z3mcoupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15918

i live in the northeast where they love to use salt and brine spray. never had a problem getting my lugs off as long as they were torqued properly DRY and clean. 17 years of swapping back and forth

and directly from the BMW shop manual
M14
After installation, torque of all wheel bolts must be checked again. Wheel bolts must not be oiled!
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Last edited by Orient330iNYC; 03-14-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:37 PM
Glaird Glaird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
from rogue engineering:



and directly from the BMW shop manual
M14
After installation, torque of all wheel bolts must be checked again. Wheel bolts must not be oiled!
Anti-seize is not a lubricant.
2nd, trying to check your source, I can't get to that page via the home web site.
3rd, that bolt had a lot more than 90 ft-lbs applied to it, grease or no grease.

Last edited by Glaird; 03-14-2018 at 07:39 PM.
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  #11  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:00 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glaird View Post
Anti-seize is not a lubricant.
2nd, trying to check your source, I can't get to that page via the home web site.
3rd, that bolt had a lot more than 90 ft-lbs applied to it, grease or no grease.
it actually is. printed right on the bottle.

https://www.permatex.com/products/lu...e-lubricant-2/
https://www.permatex.com/product-cat...ts-anti-seize/

havent found a single antiseize on the market that doesnt have "lubricant" as part of its stated purpose. metallic or non metallic, all the antiseize compounds i've ever seen have a petroleum oil/grease base.

all i can say is BMW does not recommend any lubricants on the threads of the bolts, which antiseize is. tire rack recommends against it as it distorts the torque readings. if it works for you, thats fine, but that doesnt change the fact the manufacturer says that the wheel bolts must not be oiled (lubricated)
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Last edited by Orient330iNYC; 03-14-2018 at 09:04 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2018, 09:25 AM
Glaird Glaird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
it actually is. printed right on the bottle.
havent found a single antiseize on the market that doesnt have "lubricant" as part of its stated purpose. metallic or non metallic, all the antiseize compounds i've ever seen have a petroleum oil/grease base.
You're right. I looked at my tube of NAPA anti-seize. Not only does it have the words "thread lubricant", the tube is old enough it is leaking oil.

I suppose, I have to resort to the wire brush method of cleaning my nuts/bolts, next time I swap wheels/tires.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:33 AM
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The specification in my work was dry versus wet torque.
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dak911 View Post
Something that I did not know...you should reset the torque settings on your wrench to zero after each use...
That's "minimum," not "zero" (most wrenches have no zero on the scale). To clarify for those who might not know: That means at the end of the day, not after each bolt.

The accuracy of the mechanism can be reduced if stored for long periods while set to a high torque value. Short-term, not a problem.
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
The specification in my work was dry versus wet torque.
This is always the way I've heard/seen it described, too - wet/dry.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:04 PM
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I ran into this issue yesterday and need some advice. In April, I had new tire installed on my 640 and went on my way. Yesterday, I decided I was going to do the brake fluid service and when I went to remove the lugs, I couldn't break them loose. I finally called the shop that did my tires and took the car over there so they could remove the lugs since they were the last ones who worked on the car. I was watching from the doorway as they used the biggest freaking torque gun I have ever seen (took two of them to lift it and I've seen big torque guns before having worked in an industrial environment for over thirty years as an electrician) and they were still having trouble getting them off. The reason for this was that when they put them back on in April the lugs were rusted. Of course, the heads of the bolts are now virtually unusable so I now have a complete set of twenty on order and will be here on Monday. I also order a tread chaser to be sure that the treads in the hubs are clean as well. My question is what should I use to lubricate the chaser to be sure I get the treads good and clean? Should I use a solvent after to be sure the lubricant is gone so I can re-torque the new lugs properly and if so, what would be the recommended solvent? Thanks!
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:47 PM
Glaird Glaird is offline
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As you can see from above, I was sharply corrected. Don't use any lubricant or anti-seize. From my machining days, about the same time we were allowed to use anti-seize on spark plugs and lug nuts, the only time one used lubricant to cut threads, was a fresh hole, where a lot of metal was going to be cut away and the tap was going to get very hot.
IMHO, now educated, I'd say don't use anything on the tap, just gently, turning in and out, chase the threads all the way down. The new bolts should be good to go, right out of the package. 88 ft-lbs, I believe is correct. (But I am finding sites that claim 105 ft-lbs. Which I have difficulty believing, given the diameter of the bolt.)
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glaird View Post
As you can see from above, I was sharply corrected. Don't use any lubricant or anti-seize. From my machining days, about the same time we were allowed to use anti-seize on spark plugs and lug nuts, the only time one used lubricant to cut threads, was a fresh hole, where a lot of metal was going to be cut away and the tap was going to get very hot.
IMHO, now educated, I'd say don't use anything on the tap, just gently, turning in and out, chase the threads all the way down. The new bolts should be good to go, right out of the package. 88 ft-lbs, I believe is correct. (But I am finding sites that claim 105 ft-lbs. Which I have difficulty believing, given the diameter of the bolt.)
No lub it is to chase the holes. As a note, they did show me a reference that they use at the shop I was at yesterday where 103 ft-lbs is suppose to be the correct torque. I'm not sure what reference it was, possibly Mitchell or something similar. I had always heard 88 ft-lbs like you mentioned especially for alloy wheels but 103 is what the reference said. I did call the local stealership later and they also said 103.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:19 AM
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M12 bolts are 88 ft/lbs (typically before the F series)
M14 bolts are 103 ft/lbs (typically F series and newer)
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:26 PM
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Exclamation

ft-lbs, or lb-ft, or Nm. NOT ft/lbs or lbs/ft.

Torque is NOT in feet per pounds (ft/lbs) or pounds per foot (lbs/ft). While ft/lbs and lbs/ft are valid units, they are not the units of torque at all (totally wrong!) and each describes something physically different from torque.

OK, so now that you know the correct units of torque (ft-lbs, lb-ft, Nm), you can torque 'em right!
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:07 PM
heyheyitsmarc heyheyitsmarc is offline
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I'd caution against using a tap to chase threads that aren't damaged. All the reference I've seen say the bolts are M14, but there's a possibility they could be MJ14, which carry load differently. Not knowing exactly which thread profile they use could risk unintentionally altering the joint. Since your lug bolts go all the way through the hub plate, there shouldn't be any debris in there that you can't clean out with some solvent and a nylon tube brush
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