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  #1  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:40 AM
First First is offline
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Question Help with trifecta lights please.... codes

Hello guys,

2011 328i wagon

I had posted a while back about the trifecta coming on and got some great advice from you guys but had surgery and became busy so was not able to work on the car.

I have bought left front and rear ABS sensors as well as a voltage regulator which I will be installing.

Today I ran the ISTA and got all these codes. Was wondering if someone can look at these and whether they think that my issues are still the voltage regulator and wheel speed sensors and would those problems make all these crazy codes come up? and why the seat module? (or is that a dummy code caused by voltage reg and speed sensors?) Would greatly appreciate your help. Images are attached.....

My original problem thread is here https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh....php?t=1308965

Kind regards
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Last edited by First; 05-14-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:55 AM
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Are these modules turning off due to voltage regulator?
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  #3  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:05 AM
relative4 relative4 is offline
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How old is your battery? Have you had it tested?
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  #4  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:15 AM
First First is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relative4 View Post
How old is your battery? Have you had it tested?
New battery. This started in December. I posted the link in the OP about this problem. I have not gotten around to doing it and have not driven the car since.
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  #5  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:59 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by First View Post
...I had posted a while back about the trifecta coming on and got some great advice from you guys but had surgery [I hope successful, no complications & all is well] and became busy so was not able to work on the car. I have bought left front and rear ABS sensors as well as a voltage regulator which I will be installing. [Suggest installing New Voltage Regulator ONLY, clearing codes AFTER recording ALL associated codes & Freeze Frame Data, and running engine as you monitor SYSTEM VOLTAGE, with Multimeter, Scan Tool reading System Voltage Parameter, or using Hidden Menu 9.00. See if ANY codes return. If NOT drive & enjoy. If codes, Post Full Code information here: Codes, Code Definitions, Freeze Frame Data, & Code Details. If you have INPA, suggest using that, connected to each Module (one at a time) that has Fault Codes. If you have ISTA, same thing. If you don't know how to read that information which IS stored in the DME Module, ask for specific steps to Read & Save that data.]

Today I ran the ISTA and got all these codes. Was wondering if someone can look at these and whether they think that my issues are still the voltage regulator and wheel speed sensors and would those problems make all these crazy codes come up? and why the seat module? (or is that a dummy code caused by voltage reg and speed sensors?)My original problem thread is here https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh....php?t=1308965
PLEASE, PLEASE, REPLACE THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR -- NOW, BEFORE running the engine any more.

I would suggest don't even read the rest of this post, just change the Voltage Regulator, but I have a feeling you are going to want a more complete response, so here it is:

Although I'm reluctant to be direct or even harsh with someone who has had health issues intervene in the diagnosis & repair process, I would NOT be doing you any favors if I did NOT observe the following and try to impress upon you the importance of fixing something in a timely fashion (whether it's YOUR health issue, or your Bimmer's health issue).

I'm sure you would NOT continue to run your car's engine if it had lost all it's oil or coolant. Continuing to run the engine when the Alternator is putting out OVERVOLTAGE, >18 volts according to your first post on 12/18/2018, CAN and PROBABLY WILL damage one or more expensive Electronic Control Modules, your Battery, or possibly other components in the vehicle electrical system.

You began your thread "Is my Alternator/Voltage regulator fried?" on 12/18/2018 at 10:09 AM, and by the time you made the final reply to that post ~ 5 hours later at 3:26 PM, there had been 17 posts to the thread, including your own. The general consensus was to replace the Voltage Regulator. TIS Procedure for doing that, and sample part supplier info was provided. Risks of continued operation with OVERVOLTAGE were described. NOW, nearly 5 months later you are wanting to revisit the extensive and conclusive analysis provided in December?

I'm about as ANALytical as anyone on any Bimmer forum I know, and I'm sure those familiar with my LOOOONG posts will consider that a SAFE assessment. BUTTTT, there comes a time when "Analysis Paralysis" needs to end and you have to JUST DO IT. THIS is one of those times.

REMINDERS (copied from prior thread -- yes, we HAVE heard all this BEFORE ;-):
5DF7......System voltage>18 Volts> not currently detected: Warning lamp on

I would NOT drive the car until you change the voltage regulator (~$50 part cost if DIY).
I would check the Freeze Frame Data related to ALL the faults you read, but particularly the two listed above related to excessively LOW voltage, and excessively HIGH voltage (EXTREMELY high at >18V -- THAT will damage battery & electronic modules in short order). That "Over-voltage" is what is causing the light show on your instrument cluster. Make sure you do NOT have battery acid boiled from the battery corroding things in the battery well.

Here is the TIS procedure for Voltage Regulator Replacement:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...roller/HwWK2Fi

Poster #2: I agree you should replace the voltage regulator. I replaced the one on my M3 after it behaved similarly to yours

Another Post: The short answer is, IF (1) there was a fault code in memory that says System Voltage was greater than 18V at some point before you cleared that code, AND (2) you have NO indication that the voltage regulator was ever replaced after that code was set, AND (3) you are now seeing abnormal random warning lights (light-show) on your instrument cluster, AND (4) you are reading System Voltage in excess of 15.0 V using Hidden Menu 9.00 with engine running:

I would change the Voltage Regulator. Here are examples of options for my 2007 328xi E91 with 180 Amp Alternator (I would personally go with the Bosch option), but make sure you know (1) make of your alternator (Bosch, Valeo, etc.) and correct BMW part# for YOUR car:
https://www.autohausaz.com/catalog/k...tor?s=r&page=1
In spite of, and in addition to, the above, I'll answer your question about the current codes (which I note from the MILEAGE [142584 & 142589 km] are 3 & 6 miles AFTER the mileage you reported on 12/18/18). I think there is an Excellent Chance that if you replace the voltage regulator and clear all codes (AFTER recording FF Data), they will NOT recur, nor will the instrument cluster light show. I base that SWAG on the following:

1) ALL the codes that were saved at 142589 km (88600 MILES) were Communication Faults; I would want to know: (a) was the engine running at the time those faults were saved or reported (one would need to see Freeze Frame Data if you personally do not know), and (b) could/can you connect INPA or ISTA to the various modules the codes suggest had Communication Faults, to read parameters or inputs (just ignition ON, Engine OFF) or to view screens related to activation of components (don't actually activate anything ;-)

2) The codes that were saved at 142584 km (88597 miles) were related to DSC or DME functions or calculations/analysis of inputs (or lack thereof) to those modules.

So in summary, please don't get "wrapped around the axle" or hung-up on what we DON'T know, but simply change the Voltage Regulator, clear the codes, monitor the voltage at idle after Regulator replacement, and hope that the overvoltage did NOT permanently damage any of the electronics.

George
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:25 AM
First First is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
PLEASE, PLEASE, REPLACE THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR -- NOW, BEFORE running the engine any more.

Thank you sir. I'm going to try to get out there and change it today. I have all the parts as I had collected the parts by the 1st week of January. The car hasn't been driven as I had another car. I have occasionally started the car to see if it would start.

I would suggest don't even read the rest of this post, just change the Voltage Regulator, but I have a feeling you are going to want a more complete response, so here it is:

Sorry, I read the whole post. Yup, I always appreciate an indepth response from you.

Although I'm reluctant to be direct or even harsh with someone who has had health issues intervene in the diagnosis & repair process, I would NOT be doing you any favors if I did NOT observe the following and try to impress upon you the importance of fixing something in a timely fashion (whether it's YOUR health issue, or your Bimmer's health issue).

100% agree. I'm the same way and get worried at the smallest thing that is not right with my car that is why I didn't drive the car as per advice given. Wish I took care of my health the same way.

I'm sure you would NOT continue to run your car's engine if it had lost all it's oil or coolant. Continuing to run the engine when the Alternator is putting out OVERVOLTAGE, >18 volts according to your first post on 12/18/2018, CAN and PROBABLY WILL damage one or more expensive Electronic Control Modules, your Battery, or possibly other components in the vehicle electrical system.

Thank God I haven't driven it.

You began your thread "Is my Alternator/Voltage regulator fried?" on 12/18/2018 at 10:09 AM, and by the time you made the final reply to that post ~ 5 hours later at 3:26 PM, there had been 17 posts to the thread, including your own. The general consensus was to replace the Voltage Regulator. TIS Procedure for doing that, and sample part supplier info was provided. Risks of continued operation with OVERVOLTAGE were described. NOW, nearly 5 months later you are wanting to revisit the extensive and conclusive analysis provided in December?

Yes, sorry about that but I used ISTA for the first time (English) and saw all these other codes that I could actually read and was wanting to know if there are more sinister things going on or are they just the regular causing all these. But we shall know soon.

I'm about as ANALytical as anyone on any Bimmer forum I know, and I'm sure those familiar with my LOOOONG posts will consider that a SAFE assessment. BUTTTT, there comes a time when "Analysis Paralysis" needs to end and you have to JUST DO IT. THIS is one of those times.

Yup, definitely gotta get up off my butt and do this.

REMINDERS (copied from prior thread -- yes, we HAVE heard all this BEFORE ;-):
5DF7......System voltage>18 Volts> not currently detected: Warning lamp on

I would NOT drive the car until you change the voltage regulator (~$50 part cost if DIY).
I would check the Freeze Frame Data related to ALL the faults you read, but particularly the two listed above related to excessively LOW voltage, and excessively HIGH voltage (EXTREMELY high at >18V -- THAT will damage battery & electronic modules in short order). That "Over-voltage" is what is causing the light show on your instrument cluster. Make sure you do NOT have battery acid boiled from the battery corroding things in the battery well.

I'm using ISTA but don't know how to get freeze frame data and don't even know what that is. I do also have INPA downloaded but All that German.

Here is the TIS procedure for Voltage Regulator Replacement:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...roller/HwWK2Fi

Poster #2: I agree you should replace the voltage regulator. I replaced the one on my M3 after it behaved similarly to yours

Another Post: The short answer is, IF (1) there was a fault code in memory that says System Voltage was greater than 18V at some point before you cleared that code, AND (2) you have NO indication that the voltage regulator was ever replaced after that code was set, AND (3) you are now seeing abnormal random warning lights (light-show) on your instrument cluster, AND (4) you are reading System Voltage in excess of 15.0 V using Hidden Menu 9.00 with engine running:

I would change the Voltage Regulator. Here are examples of options for my 2007 328xi E91 with 180 Amp Alternator (I would personally go with the Bosch option), but make sure you know (1) make of your alternator (Bosch, Valeo, etc.) and correct BMW part# for YOUR car:
https://www.autohausaz.com/catalog/k...tor?s=r&page=1
In spite of, and in addition to, the above, I'll answer your question about the current codes (which I note from the MILEAGE [142584 & 142589 km] are 3 & 6 miles AFTER the mileage you reported on 12/18/18). I think there is an Excellent Chance that if you replace the voltage regulator and clear all codes (AFTER recording FF Data), they will NOT recur, nor will the instrument cluster light show. I base that SWAG on the following:

1) ALL the codes that were saved at 142589 km (88600 MILES) were Communication Faults; I would want to know: (a) was the engine running at the time those faults were saved or reported (one would need to see Freeze Frame Data if you personally do not know), and (b) could/can you connect INPA or ISTA to the various modules the codes suggest had Communication Faults, to read parameters or inputs (just ignition ON, Engine OFF) or to view screens related to activation of components (don't actually activate anything ;-)

I have no idea. The pics I posted in the OP was done yesterday and engine was not running.

2) The codes that were saved at 142584 km (88597 miles) were related to DSC or DME functions or calculations/analysis of inputs (or lack thereof) to those modules.

So in summary, please don't get "wrapped around the axle" or hung-up on what we DON'T know, but simply change the Voltage Regulator, clear the codes, monitor the voltage at idle after Regulator replacement, and hope that the overvoltage did NOT permanently damage any of the electronics.

George
Thank you George for your awesome reply.

Last edited by First; 05-15-2019 at 03:26 AM.
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:39 PM
First First is offline
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Arrow UPDATE** So far

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
PLEASE, PLEASE, REPLACE THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR -- NOW, BEFORE running the engine any more.

I would suggest don't even read the rest of this post, just change the Voltage Regulator, but I have a feeling you are going to want a more complete response, so here it is:


George
Hi George,

I replaced the voltage regulator along with tensioner pulley and serpentine belt. However, within 30 feet all lights came back on including airbag.

Connected the ISTA, and below is what came up in attached images...

Also something about seat module not responding?

Now even rear right is coming on too? Before it was only left front and rear.
.
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Last edited by First; 05-15-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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  #8  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:04 AM
First First is offline
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Hi George,
Looking at the pics in the above post, could you please recommend where I go from there? I was thinking that I should go ahead and change the abs sensors?

Below are pics of how the voltage regulator looked like.
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:55 AM
First First is offline
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Arrow Udpate after replacing 2 left ABS sensors

Replaced both left side ABS sensors as I had already ordered those in Jan. Yesterday, the scan showed Right rear sensor as well. I didn't have that one so have to order it.

I went out for another test drive and noticed the following:

Lights came on again, however the airbag light didn't come on. Yesterday, all lights including airbag light came on within 20-30 feet. Drove 1/2 mile and airbag light did not come on.

Came back, hooked it up to ISTA again and got the following. Please advice. (At least the airbag light didn't come on but who knows)

Thanking you immensely.
Kind regards





.
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Last edited by First; 05-16-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:56 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
...So in summary, please don't get "wrapped around the axle" or hung-up on what we DON'T know, but simply [1] change the Voltage Regulator, [2] clear the codes, [3] monitor the voltage at idle after Regulator replacement, and hope that the overvoltage did NOT permanently damage any of the electronics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by First View Post
...I replaced the voltage regulator along with tensioner pulley and serpentine belt. However, within 30 feet all lights came back on including airbag. Connected the ISTA, and below is what came up in attached images...
My concept WAS (still is ;-) to eliminate a KNOWN fault source, namely OVERVOLTAGE, by (1) replacing the Voltage Regulator; then (2) clear the existing codes; and then (3) MONITOR SYSTEM VOLTAGE (Hidden Menu 9.00, multimeter, or System Voltage Parameter via OBD II Socket).

So NOW you report:
1) You have changed the Voltage Regulator -- GOOD START!!

2) You post ISTA screens showing OLD faults saved at 142584 km & 142589 km, which was the mileage at which the faults you posted BEFORE changing the Regulator were saved. DID YOU CLEAR CODES BEFORE RUNNING THE ENGINE after Regulator change? Do you know HOW to clear codes using ISTA? I use INPA, but have not yet used ISTA, so someone else can hopefully describe how to CLEAR codes using ISTA???

3) You do NOT indicate that you MONITORED the System Voltage (Alternator Output) after engine start, and AFTER changing the Voltage Regulator. Monitoring System Voltage with engine running is the ONLY way I know to determine if the intermittent OVERVOLTAGE issue has been corrected.

So to restate "Next Steps" in simple terms:

1) CLEAR ALL CODES (engine OFF but ignition ON).

2) Connect/Activate System Voltage Monitor of your choice to the vehicle and START engine. Monitor System Voltage as the engine idles. Do that for ~ 5 minutes, noting/ recording MAX voltage observed & MIN voltage observed while engine was running (and alternator was charging). Stop engine.

3) Read Codes with Ignition ON, Engine OFF.

4) Let us know if you have any questions about how to do (1) or (2), and what the results of (2) were (Voltage range), and also (3) codes read AFTER shutting OFF the engine (ignition ON).

The goal is to determine (1) whether replacing the Voltage Regulator has restored proper operation of the Alternator (no more OVERVOLTAGE), AND (2) whether any of the codes that occurred BEFORE recur again.

George
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