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  #126  
Old 04-29-2019, 09:29 AM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Some local cities look into roundabouts at busy 3 to 4-lane major 4-way intersections and those plans were abandoned due to space, plus still needing lights to avoid gridlocks.
1. Don't forget that many intersections here have 4 lanes in each direction only because they need to sort and park cars waiting on red. Many of these would be fine with two lanes if roundabout was a solution from the get-go.

2. If the throughput requires 4 lanes, then there shouldn't be any intersections. Most outer loops/rings Interstates have 3 lanes to handle all that traffic, not even 4.

3. Death's Domain in the Discworld has a huge mansion where Death lives. Describing Death's studio room, the author hits many nails on the head by describing the desk. The desk had blotters on the top. Solid wood, carved into the top of the desk and completely solid. On the sides, there were rectangular protrusions looking like drawers that cannot open. Who made the desk (Death) has obviously seen many desks in his life, but never really grasped "deskness" of those desks. Here is American Traffic Engineer's roundabout - he has seen plenty of those in the books and on satellite images without ever actually grasping "roundaboutness" of it all - not the least the conundrum what to do with traffic lights and where to place them. Gotta have traffic lights, can't have intersecting roads without them. That intersection below is a product of a very sick mind. A mind that should be in an institution trying to get better, not designing traffic flow. Oh, yes, it also has 3 extra lanes where to park cars on red - from the point 1 above.

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Last edited by Mark K; 04-29-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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  #127  
Old 04-29-2019, 10:56 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
1. Don't forget that many intersections here have 4 lanes in each direction only because they need to sort and park cars waiting on red. Many of these would be fine with two lanes if roundabout was a solution from the get-go.

2. If the throughput requires 4 lanes, then there shouldn't be any intersections. Most outer loops/rings Interstates have 3 lanes to handle all that traffic, not even 4.
This is a interesting article from UK(the land of roundabouts), and personal experience traveling at UK matches the descriptions. UK traffic engineers realize traffic lights + roundabouts solve these problems, but that also beats the purpose of roundabouts.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...abouts-way-out

"ôRoundabouts are brilliant at moving car traffic, but not a safe space for people who cycle or are crossing on foot ...."

"Roundabouts, he says, cause tailbacks unless the traffic on each approach road is equal."
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  #128  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:31 AM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
This is a interesting article from UK(the land of roundabouts), and personal experience traveling at UK matches the descriptions. UK traffic engineers realize traffic lights + roundabouts solve these problems, but that also beats the purpose of roundabouts.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...abouts-way-out

"ôRoundabouts are brilliant at moving car traffic, but not a safe space for people who cycle or are crossing on foot ...."

"Roundabouts, he says, cause tailbacks unless the traffic on each approach road is equal."
It is interesting how the grass is always greener ...

I don't know where they get that about Americans building roundabouts. Unless Ohio departed from U.S. inconspicuously and there is a gigantic conspiracy against myself where all of 100+ airplanes I board for various U.S. destinations in a year all actually land somewhere in Ohio ... I don't know what they are talking about. A token roundabout here and there (and totally inconsequential) - yes, you can see those whereas none were there 15 years ago. But from that to actually making a difference, there is a lot more to come.

Finally, I do not dare cross on foot 99% of intersections I have encountered here (U.S. in general) - and that seems to be exactly how the local population feels as well. Cyclists? Seen only on roads where they actually can make a difference - tight and windy so you cannot pass them and they f%#$ck up the traffic flow. Nowhere to be found at intersections I am talking about. So, let's roundabout, I say. Wherever possible.
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  #129  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:20 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I grew up in a town that had feeder lanes along the main road in commercial areas. I was always convinced that they were put there as an economic stimulus for the collision repair trade and personal injury litigation.
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  #130  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:38 PM
Wolfus Aurelius Wolfus Aurelius is offline
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Cherry Hill Management? Now I've got Billy Joe Royal's "Cherry Hill Park" running through my mind. . . .
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  #131  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:49 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by Wolfus Aurelius View Post
I tried Autoputzer's mixing method this weekend. Since I only needed about 7 gallons, I pumped 2 at 87 (I realized later I could have done more), then the rest at 93. Saved a whole buck. However, the Exxon station/card would not allow me to hang up the nozzle, select a new grade, then continue pumping. Oh, no. I had to agree that I wanted a receipt, walk into the store, request said receipt, then walk back outside and repeat.

Maybe the technique you described will work with a Visa card at Costco, but not here. I'll try it again soon -- but I'm not sure that it's a good use of my time.
I always take a pen and a Post-It pad with me when I get out of the car, in case the pump's printer is broken. You have to cash out after putting the nozzle back, and start all over. That takes about one minute.
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  #132  
Old 04-29-2019, 01:12 PM
Wolfus Aurelius Wolfus Aurelius is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
I always take a pen and a Post-It pad with me when I get out of the car, in case the pump's printer is broken. You have to cash out after putting the nozzle back, and start all over. That takes about one minute.
It seems like 3/4 of the pumps in this town, including those in "nice" areas, don't print -- probably because the store staff can't be bothered to put new paper in the printer.

My problem, though, wasn't that it wouldn't print, but that it ended the transaction the moment I hung up the nozzle. I tried punching the 93 button after I finished with the 87 but before hanging the nozzle up. Nope. Once you hang up the nozzle, it asks if you want a receipt.

I got two receipts, and added the fuel amounts and charges; no problem there.
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  #133  
Old 04-29-2019, 01:18 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by Wolfus Aurelius View Post
Cherry Hill Management? Now I've got Billy Joe Royal's "Cherry Hill Park" running through my mind. . . .
I had to Google them ... yeah, that is the intersection. There are two (or three?) more going north on that road. Somebody really wasn't feeing well when they were planning that road. Even worse, those who approved the "solution" must have felt even worse.
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  #134  
Old 04-30-2019, 01:49 PM
Kestas Kestas is offline
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I just checked my gas station, and premium costs 22% more than regular. The old arguments of false economy by using regular aren't valid anymore.

I routinely fill my premium burning vehicles with regular. They all have knock sensors. I checked the gas mileage -- I do not get 22% less gas mileage, not even close.

Premium gas, or antiknocking, is needed under conditions where you're accelerating when the engine has low rpms. Premium is not that important for straight line cruising on the freeway. So I've given up some acceleration for economy.

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  #135  
Old 05-02-2019, 05:08 PM
Bluemill Bluemill is offline
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Go with the manual recommendation: 91 octane

I'm lucky in that the closest gas station to me is a Sunoco, now top tier, and they have 91 octane, at a few cents off of 93. If I'm away from home and I run into an area of a GAS WAR between bargain priced stations i'll get some 93. Only in the dead of winter would I think of getting 89. The B48 engine is a high compression, twin turbo mill that should be fed right!

When the manual says use this- I pay attention. I am quite sure the BMW engineers know a hell of a lot more than I.

Best,

Bluemill
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  #136  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:49 AM
Wolfus Aurelius Wolfus Aurelius is offline
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Yesterday I was driving in the suburbs and spotted an exxon with all three prices posted, 87, 89, and 93. The 93 was .60 more than the 87. So I nipped in and pumped 3.3 gallons of 87, 2.7 of 93 (the rest of the tank is all 93), to mix up 91. Saved about 2.00, which is much more worth my time.

Note, everybody -- and this may have already occurred to you, but it hadn't to me: If you reset the trip computer mpg but not the overall consumption mpg, the car retains the latter as the current mpg figure. For instance, I had 27.9 on both trip and overall mpgs. I reset the former but not the latter (as I'm curious to see what the car will obtain over a month's time). When I checked my mpg as I left the station, it did not read 0.00, as it does when you reset both mpg meters; it read 27.9. Logical -- but I hadn't thought about it.
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  #137  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:49 AM
Wolfus Aurelius Wolfus Aurelius is offline
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Yesterday I was driving in the suburbs and spotted an Exxon with all three prices posted, 87, 89, and 93. The 93 was .60 more than the 87. So I nipped in and pumped 3.3 gallons of 87, 2.7 of 93 (the rest of the tank is all 93), to mix up 91. Saved about 2.00, which is much more worth my time.

Note, everybody -- and this may have already occurred to you, but it hadn't to me: If you reset the trip computer mpg but not the overall consumption mpg, the car retains the latter as the current mpg figure. For instance, I had 27.9 on both trip and overall mpgs. I reset the former but not the latter (as I'm curious to see what the car will obtain over a month's time). When I checked my mpg as I left the station, it did not read 0.00, as it does when you reset both mpg meters; it read 27.9. Logical -- but I hadn't thought about it.
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  #138  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:39 AM
Closem Joe Closem Joe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfus Aurelius View Post
Yesterday I was driving in the suburbs and spotted an Exxon with all three prices posted, 87, 89, and 93. The 93 was .60 more than the 87. So I nipped in and pumped 3.3 gallons of 87, 2.7 of 93 (the rest of the tank is all 93), to mix up 91. Saved about 2.00, which is much more worth my time.

Note, everybody -- and this may have already occurred to you, but it hadn't to me: If you reset the trip computer mpg but not the overall consumption mpg, the car retains the latter as the current mpg figure. For instance, I had 27.9 on both trip and overall mpgs. I reset the former but not the latter (as I'm curious to see what the car will obtain over a month's time). When I checked my mpg as I left the station, it did not read 0.00, as it does when you reset both mpg meters; it read 27.9. Logical -- but I hadn't thought about it.
Wolfie, Wolfie, Wolfie,

Don't you think it would have made more sense just to fill up with the 93 since it was only .60 more than the 87 instead of jerking around with the mixing gas routine? Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees!

Joe
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  #139  
Old 06-10-2019, 07:05 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Joe's both right... and wrong. There was no need to mix gas, but you could have topped-off with all 87 AKI. F3X's have 15.8 gallon tanks. 6 gallons of 87 AKI and 9.8 gallons of 93 AKI (already in the tank) works out to ~90.7 AKI after it mixes. You would have saved $3.60.

(6 x 87 + 9.8 x 93)/15.8 = 90.7

With a $0.60/gallon difference and an F3X that gets 25 MPG, over 100k miles blending 1/3 87 AKI and 2/3's 93 AKI to get 91 AKI will save you $800.

I bet Bluemill's SUNOCO station doesn't sell 91 AKI for $0.20/gallon less than 93 AKI. So, manually blending would probably still save a couple of dollars per tank.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 06-10-2019 at 07:07 AM.
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  #140  
Old 06-10-2019, 07:50 AM
Wolfus Aurelius Wolfus Aurelius is offline
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Originally Posted by Closem Joe View Post
Wolfie, Wolfie, Wolfie,

Don't you think it would have made more sense just to fill up with the 93 since it was only .60 more than the 87 instead of jerking around with the mixing gas routine? Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees!

Joe
Maybe. But it worked out, as this station actually had the receipt dispenser filled. It took me only a few seconds more than if I'd stuck with 93. When the paper receipt fails to emerge and I have to walk into the store, then walk in again after the second pump, that's not worth my while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer
(6 x 87 + 9.8 x 93)/15.8 = 90.7
You're right, I could have. Five would have been perfect, an even $3.00.

Last edited by Wolfus Aurelius; 06-10-2019 at 07:54 AM.
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  #141  
Old 06-10-2019, 01:47 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by Kestas View Post
I just checked my gas station, and premium costs 22% more than regular. The old arguments of false economy by using regular aren't valid anymore.

I routinely fill my premium burning vehicles with regular. They all have knock sensors. I checked the gas mileage -- I do not get 22% less gas mileage, not even close.

Premium gas, or antiknocking, is needed under conditions where you're accelerating when the engine has low rpms. Premium is not that important for straight line cruising on the freeway. So I've given up some acceleration for economy.

The price spread between 87 AKI and 91 AKI at Costco is only $0.35/gallon. The lowest I've seen in in recent history was $0.23/gallon in Alabama in 2015. The area was having a gas war of sorts. That's probably the wholesale price difference.
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  #142  
Old 07-05-2019, 09:06 AM
sevalley sevalley is offline
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My wife has a 2019 BMW X3, 4 cylinder engine. She used to have an X1 and a 1-series coupe before that. We have filled premium gas at the same Mobil gas station near our house all these years in her cars with no problems until recently. Her X3 experienced performance issues, specifically engine lagging upon acceleration from a dead stop and loss of power. Our BMW Dealer service department ran tests and claimed the X3 has "abnormal pings from knock sensors due to low fuel grade", which was reducing performance. They claimed they extracted and tested the fuel in her tank and found it to be of low quality. When I explained it is 91 octane fuel from Mobil, they said Mobil (and most other gas stations) have lower quality gas, even if octane is 91+. They said ONLY Shell and Chevron, and SOME 76 stations, have high enough quality gas to fuel the new 2019+ BMW engines as the new engines are very efficient and require higher quality fuel. I thought it was ridiculous that BMW would require us to only fill gas from two providers, and if this is true, this should be stated as a severe limitation when purchasing their new cars. We notified BMW corporate, and shockingly they confirmed that the new BMW engines have this limitation and require premium gas from Shell or Chevron to perform correctly. BMW left my wife a voicemail confirming this information and refused to put it in writing or provide any documentation that states this limitation. I informed Mobil/Exxon that BMW corporate has confirmed that their gas is of low quality and can't be used in newer BMW engines. Supposedly they are running tests on the gas at our station and will be contacting BMW to sort it out. This thread is the only post I was able to find online where the quality of gas being put into BMWs was discussed, so I wanted to get some opinions here. If true, BMW needs to publicly state this limitation on their new engines.
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  #143  
Old 07-05-2019, 09:48 AM
Closem Joe Closem Joe is offline
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Originally Posted by sevalley View Post
My wife has a 2019 BMW X3, 4 cylinder engine. She used to have an X1 and a 1-series coupe before that. We have filled premium gas at the same Mobil gas station near our house all these years in her cars with no problems until recently. Her X3 experienced performance issues, specifically engine lagging upon acceleration from a dead stop and loss of power. Our BMW Dealer service department ran tests and claimed the X3 has "abnormal pings from knock sensors due to low fuel grade", which was reducing performance. They claimed they extracted and tested the fuel in her tank and found it to be of low quality. When I explained it is 91 octane fuel from Mobil, they said Mobil (and most other gas stations) have lower quality gas, even if octane is 91+. They said ONLY Shell and Chevron, and SOME 76 stations, have high enough quality gas to fuel the new 2019+ BMW engines as the new engines are very efficient and require higher quality fuel. I thought it was ridiculous that BMW would require us to only fill gas from two providers, and if this is true, this should be stated as a severe limitation when purchasing their new cars. We notified BMW corporate, and shockingly they confirmed that the new BMW engines have this limitation and require premium gas from Shell or Chevron to perform correctly. BMW left my wife a voicemail confirming this information and refused to put it in writing or provide any documentation that states this limitation. I informed Mobil/Exxon that BMW corporate has confirmed that their gas is of low quality and can't be used in newer BMW engines. Supposedly they are running tests on the gas at our station and will be contacting BMW to sort it out. This thread is the only post I was able to find online where the quality of gas being put into BMWs was discussed, so I wanted to get some opinions here. If true, BMW needs to publicly state this limitation on their new engines.
Hey SE,

We use 93 octane in my wife's 19 X3 30i from Costco and it runs like a top. They have special gas there and it is highly rated. I use the same in my 18 440 vert. and it also never misses a beat. Give it a shot and you'll love it.

Joe
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  #144  
Old 07-05-2019, 10:31 AM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by Closem Joe View Post
Hey SE,



We use 93 octane in my wife's 19 X3 30i from Costco and it runs like a top. They have special gas there and it is highly rated. I use the same in my 18 440 vert. and it also never misses a beat. Give it a shot and you'll love it.



Joe
+1

I don't know if it is in my head or what, but it seems to me that my Cayman runs the smoothest on Shell or Costco 93 octanes.

GTI is harder to say because of disruptions from turbocharger, but I could swear I can feel it in that NA engine in Cayman. It is not like it wouldn't run on other brand's 93, it just feels (to me) happier on Shell or Costco.

All that said, I find it a bit ridiculous if it is true that BMW can't run properly if the gas is not purchased from 2 brands.

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  #145  
Old 07-05-2019, 10:57 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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All three of our car (two BMW's and a Chevy Cobalt SS) require 91 AKI to perform as advertised. I've filled all three up at the same gas station the last time around. All of them are getting slightly lower MPG than with previous tanks. But, it's likely due to heavy traffic (I live in a tourist area), running the AC more, doing more short hops because I don't want to deal with traffic), and maybe low-volatility summer gas.
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  #146  
Old 07-05-2019, 12:35 PM
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eazy eazy is offline
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Originally Posted by sevalley View Post
My wife has a 2019 BMW X3, 4 cylinder engine. She used to have an X1 and a 1-series coupe before that. We have filled premium gas at the same Mobil gas station near our house all these years in her cars with no problems until recently. Her X3 experienced performance issues, specifically engine lagging upon acceleration from a dead stop and loss of power. Our BMW Dealer service department ran tests and claimed the X3 has "abnormal pings from knock sensors due to low fuel grade", which was reducing performance. They claimed they extracted and tested the fuel in her tank and found it to be of low quality. When I explained it is 91 octane fuel from Mobil, they said Mobil (and most other gas stations) have lower quality gas, even if octane is 91+. They said ONLY Shell and Chevron, and SOME 76 stations, have high enough quality gas to fuel the new 2019+ BMW engines as the new engines are very efficient and require higher quality fuel. I thought it was ridiculous that BMW would require us to only fill gas from two providers, and if this is true, this should be stated as a severe limitation when purchasing their new cars. We notified BMW corporate, and shockingly they confirmed that the new BMW engines have this limitation and require premium gas from Shell or Chevron to perform correctly. BMW left my wife a voicemail confirming this information and refused to put it in writing or provide any documentation that states this limitation. I informed Mobil/Exxon that BMW corporate has confirmed that their gas is of low quality and can't be used in newer BMW engines. Supposedly they are running tests on the gas at our station and will be contacting BMW to sort it out. This thread is the only post I was able to find online where the quality of gas being put into BMWs was discussed, so I wanted to get some opinions here. If true, BMW needs to publicly state this limitation on their new engines.

That interesting Exxon Mobil is considered top tier gas. It could be your gas station got a bad batch.


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  #147  
Old 07-06-2019, 06:16 AM
Wolfus Aurelius Wolfus Aurelius is offline
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Originally Posted by sevalley View Post
. . . I thought it was ridiculous that BMW would require us to only fill gas from two providers, and if this is true, this should be stated as a severe limitation when purchasing their new cars. We notified BMW corporate, and shockingly they confirmed that the new BMW engines have this limitation and require premium gas from Shell or Chevron to perform correctly. BMW left my wife a voicemail confirming this information and refused to put it in writing or provide any documentation that states this limitation. I informed Mobil/Exxon that BMW corporate has confirmed that their gas is of low quality and can't be used in newer BMW engines. . . . This thread is the only post I was able to find online where the quality of gas being put into BMWs was discussed, so I wanted to get some opinions here. If true, BMW needs to publicly state this limitation on their new engines.
Then I'm glad I resurrected this thread. SEValley, that sounds strange indeed. If it's really true, does it mean that BMW designed the engines around the properties, the additives, of Shell and Chevron gas? I've been using Exxon-Mobil almost exclusively in this car since I bought it, as the premium at the store near my home is the cheapest around, and I get .06/gallon off when I use my EM card. The 2015 has always run perfectly. Let us know what happens with this!

Like Autoputzer, I'm getting a little lower mileage now, but the A/C has been on almost all the time since April and will be run until November, if I'm lucky, or Christmas if I'm not.
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  #148  
Old 07-06-2019, 06:58 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I think a bad batch of gas is a more likely explanation. Gas is gas. All the brands from different refiners get mixed together in the pipelines and tank farms. What separates good gas from bad gas is the additives that are added when the tank trucks are filled at the tank farms.

Early E46 M3's had trouble with summer gas. The car's would start fine in the winter. But, in the spring they'd be difficult to start and then shudder and stall. It took them a while to figure it out. The problem was they were programmed for cold start-up using winter gas, which is more volatile. They want a car to use as little gas as possible when cold, to keep cold-start-up emissions down. The E46 M3's engine control computer was more powerful than that of non-M's, so they could tune the car closer to the edge. But, the difference in summer and winter gas was enough to affect the cars at cold-start-up.

I filled up Frau Putzer's X3 early this morning, combining a Top Tier Gas run with a Top Tier Biscuit run. The car got 19.6 MPG since the last fill-up. That's the lowest MPG she's ever got for a tank of gas. Her average since new is 23.95 MPG. But, I'd reset the trip computer before I headed out. My run got 29.0 MPG, due to the lack of traffic and my hyper-mile-ing driving techniques.

The cheapest Top Tier Gas in my town is at a Circle K Shell station right in the middle of the tourist area. The place is an absolute zoo in the summer during normal hours. So, I combine my gas purchases with a biscuit run before 6 a.m. Circle K's good about not price gouging for premium, and this particular station is in a price war with a nearby Walmart Murphy gas station (Bottom Tier Gas).
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  #149  
Old 07-06-2019, 07:02 AM
Wolfus Aurelius Wolfus Aurelius is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
. . . Circle K's good about not price gouging for premium, and this particular station is in a price war with a nearby Walmart Murphy gas station (Bottom Tier Gas).
Is Murphy gas really "bottom-tier"? My previous fill-up was at the Walmart near me, as they were quite a bit cheaper than the ExxonMobil at that point, and the car ran fine for the last two weeks -- a bit down (26.9 mpg instead of over 27) in mpg due to A/C use, as I said.

Last edited by Wolfus Aurelius; 07-06-2019 at 07:10 AM.
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  #150  
Old 07-06-2019, 07:07 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by Wolfus Aurelius View Post
Is Murphy gas really "bottom-tier"? My previous fill-up was at the Walmart near me, as they were quite a bit cheaper than the ExxonMobil at that point, and the car ran fine for the las two weeks -- a bit down (26.9 mpg instead of over 27) in mpg due to A/C use, as I said.
It meets EPA minimum requirements, but that's it.

Here's the good stuff...

https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

Several auto manufacturers, including BMW, came up with the Top Tier Gas standard because they were having problems with high mileage cars due to insufficient additives in gasoline.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 07-06-2019 at 07:09 AM.
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