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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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Old 09-20-2019, 06:57 AM
Drivinghard Drivinghard is offline
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Tire Pressure Too High?

Label on door jam calls for 39 psi rear, 35 psi front. But I see that is what the BMW Manuel shows for a full load of four passengers plus luggage. So, it seems to me that the correct pressure for two people with no luggage ought to be less. I know over-inflated tires wear the center tread sooner than they should.
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:53 AM
Raymond Lee Raymond Lee is offline
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Cold tire pressure reading and warm tire reading comes out different so best thing to do is to take measurement after you get up in the morning.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivinghard View Post
Label on door jam calls for 39 psi rear, 35 psi front. But I see that is what the BMW Manuel shows for a full load of four passengers plus luggage. So, it seems to me that the correct pressure for two people with no luggage ought to be less. I know over-inflated tires wear the center tread sooner than they should.
Would you feel differently if the label (and owners manual) representation was interpreted as "up to 5 people and luggage" vs "for a full load of 4 passengers plus luggage"?


The PSI for 35 f/39 r is for speeds BELOW 100 MPH and up to a full load with cargo. If you are driving above 100 MPH...then the recommended PSI is different...and, too is for carrying up to 5 passengers plus cargo (35 f/ 42 r).
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:41 AM
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I did measure this morning before driving anywhere. I think BMW only showing the pressures for a full load is CYA. They don't want someone getting a blowout at 120 mph saying they were not warned to have higher inflation for driving fast
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:01 AM
Drivinghard Drivinghard is offline
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I have a vague memory of my first BMW, a 1998 528, having different recommended pressures for different loads.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:10 AM
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You're memory is correct....my old e39's manual was that way. The old gen BMWs have a listing for up to 4 passengers...then another one for 5 passengers + cargo....and I believe they also had different PSI listings for over/under 100 MPH, too.

It appears that the new BMW manuals distinguish between speed vs the amount of passengers & cargo...at least, that is how I interpreted when I saw how it was printed in my f06's owners manual. It made me rethink what the charts based on the way it is printed (especially in the owners manual).

And there's always the allowance for personal tastes...adjusting by small increments to suit the feel that is comfortable for you or tire wear by increasing/decreasing the PSI...then resetting the TPMS to your new baseline.

See the chart below from the e39 owners manual...that is what you're remembering.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:10 AM
n1das n1das is offline
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I always run my tires at the maximum inflation pressure shown on the sidewall. I have had no issues with the center of the tread wearing faster than the edges. I like the handling much better with the tires at Max rated pressure.

I don't like the handling and feel when the tire pressure is set to the pressure listed on the door panel. The handling feels squishy and has more sidewall roll to it.

I set tire pressure when cold and all tires at the same temperature. I do this at night instead of in the morning so there is no solar heating effect from sunlight. I've seen wildly different pressure readings with "cold" tires and sunlight on one side of the car and the other tires in the shade.

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Old 09-20-2019, 11:32 AM
luigi524td luigi524td is offline
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Thumbs down Tire inflation mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
I always run my tires at the maximum inflation pressure shown on the sidewall. I have had no issues with the center of the tread wearing faster than the edges. I like the handling much better with the tires at Max rated pressure.

I don't like the handling and feel when the tire pressure is set to the pressure listed on the door panel. The handling feels squishy and has more sidewall roll to it.

I set tire pressure when cold and all tires at the same temperature. I do this at night instead of in the morning so there is no solar heating effect from sunlight. I've seen wildly different pressure readings with "cold" tires and sunlight on one side of the car and the other tires in the shade.

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Not I ... You're lucky that over-inflation doesn't cause uneven tire wear or worse!
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Old 09-20-2019, 12:31 PM
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My (ECE F10) has a label specifying values for both low load and high load (depending on tyres/axle). Is it different with US cars? The pressure difference is something like 0.2-0.5 bars. I keep pressure on the lower end on most days, but correct go to the high end values before travelling. No problems with uneven wear so far either way. Anyway, a PITA and obviously I don't expect most normal people (read: people not reading this forum ;-) bother. From my experience, tyre shops tend to overinflate.

I'm actually surprised that in this day and age cars don't come with seat/trunk weight sensors, special wheels with conduits and an integrated compressor ;-) Probably not worth it from an economic PoV though.
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Old 09-20-2019, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
I always run my tires at the maximum inflation pressure shown on the sidewall. ...
That's only the max pressure the installer can use when seating the bead. It's a pressure that should never be exceeded.

https://info.kaltire.com/the-right-t...isnt-the-best/

https://www.firestonecompleteautocar...tire-pressure/

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...-tire-pressure

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Old 09-20-2019, 04:21 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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When I get a new car or a different brand of new tires, I start out at two PSI over what the door jamb decal says, measured when the car is cold and in the early morning. I strictly main the pressures for a rotation stint. Then, I measure the depths of the circumferential channels on each tire using a precision digital tread depth gauge. From these measurements, I adjust the pressures for the next rotation stint.

I never could get the run-flat Goodyear LS2's on my 2015 535i to wear evenly. I replaced those miserable tires with Michelin PSS's, and they seem to wear evenly at 38 PSI front and 40 PSI rear. The door jamb recommended pressure (low speed, standard load is 35 PSI front and 39 PSI rear.

The non-run-flat Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS's on Frau Putzer's 2018 X3 30i wear perfectly even with two PSI over the decal pressures (measured cold in the early mornings). The Bridgestone's came new with 9/32" of depth in the inner and outer channels, and 10/32" depth in the two middle channels. I've now increased the pressure to four PSI over the decal recommend pressures, to slightly concentrate wear in those two deeper middle channels. I'll stay at four PSI over the decal recommended pressures until the next tire rotation. I'll measure the depths again, and decide what to do then. My goal is to have the depths on all four channels worn down to roughly 3/32" deep at the same time.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:00 PM
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OMG. Since the 80's I've found that no matter what tire and car, the ride turns to crap above 35 psi, and I do try to run them as high as I can stand it for better gas mileage. My current cars are a Z3 coupe and a Z4 M Coupe. When I tried my Z4 tires at 35 psi I could feel every damn rock and bump in the road and my car rattled quite a bit more. It was MISERABLE. Currently running them at 31F/30R. I think the manual even calls for 30/30.


Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
I always run my tires at the maximum inflation pressure shown on the sidewall. I have had no issues with the center of the tread wearing faster than the edges. I like the handling much better with the tires at Max rated pressure.

I don't like the handling and feel when the tire pressure is set to the pressure listed on the door panel. The handling feels squishy and has more sidewall roll to it.

I set tire pressure when cold and all tires at the same temperature. I do this at night instead of in the morning so there is no solar heating effect from sunlight. I've seen wildly different pressure readings with "cold" tires and sunlight on one side of the car and the other tires in the shade.

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Old 09-24-2019, 05:56 PM
satyaban satyaban is offline
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It is my understanding that low profile tires require the higher pressure and my manual mentions different pressure for front and back.
To be honest I don't know the figuring for ambient air pressure adjustments but I was told by somebody in the tire business that changes in ambient air is not significant.
Some may comment that ambient temperature is critical down .5 psi difference. How would one cope with that, does the temperature of the air being put in have to be monitored? If it is a hot day the air going into you tires may come an air conditioned area or vice versa in winter.
I do what the book recommends.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:14 PM
Pete_NZ Pete_NZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
I always run my tires at the maximum inflation pressure shown on the sidewall. I have had no issues with the center of the tread wearing faster than the edges. I like the handling much better with the tires at Max rated pressure.

I don't like the handling and feel when the tire pressure is set to the pressure listed on the door panel. The handling feels squishy and has more sidewall roll to it.

I set tire pressure when cold and all tires at the same temperature. I do this at night instead of in the morning so there is no solar heating effect from sunlight. I've seen wildly different pressure readings with "cold" tires and sunlight on one side of the car and the other tires in the shade.

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So by you're own description and rantionale you over inflate your tires. If you set them to the max rating when cold, they'll be over the max when warm. Wildly over according to you.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:35 PM
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ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satyaban View Post
...but I was told by somebody in the tire business that changes in ambient air is not significant. Some may comment that ambient temperature is critical down .5 psi difference. How would one cope with that, does the temperature of the air being put in have to be monitored? If it is a hot day the air going into you tires may come an air conditioned area or vice versa in winter.
I do what the book recommends.
Ambient is very important. There are huge (relatively speaking) differences between summer and winter tire pressures due to the differences in air density. Cold air is much denser than hot air. In aviation terms it's called density altitude. When I worked at SLC density altitude started at 74º. That means the hotter the ambient air temperature the higher the effective airport elevation. The hot air was too thin to get an airplane airborne without reducing weight.

In vehicle tires the difference is pounds, not tenths of a pound.
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:45 AM
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There are huge differences in tire pressure due to changing in ambient TEMPERATURE.
There are very minor differences in tire pressure change when using NITROGEN versus ambient AIR. Maybe that's the confusion

I usually end up tuning for the tires and the car. In almost all cases I maintain the front/rear ratio as it factors into handling balance (more air = firmer = less grip at that axle. Higher pressure in the rear reduces understeer). The only exception was my E39 when using Dunlop Wintersport M3 - then it was happiest with same F/R.

My door sticker calls for 35/39, I'm usually running 36/40
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:30 AM
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^^^^ What utter innumerate BS!

Newton's Third Law of Motion dictates tire pressure to the first approximation. F_road = F-tire. F_tire is the normal force, roughly 1/4 the weight of the vehicle.

The projected tire footprint area divided into that F_tire is the first approximation tire pressure; Pounds_force / Area_footprint = Lbf / in^2

Radial belt tire profile changes very little with pressure, particularly when compared with bias belted profile changes.

The rule of thumb for temperature effects on pressure is 1:10. P...
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:30 AM
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^^^^ What utter innumerate BS!

Newton’s Third Law of Motion dictates tire pressure to the first approximation. F_road = F-tire. F_tire is the normal force, roughly 1/4 the weight of the vehicle.

The projected tire footprint area divided into that F_tire is the first approximation tire pressure; Pounds_force / Area_footprint = Lbf / in^2

Radial belt tire profile changes very little with pressure, particularly when compared with bias belted profile changes.

The rule of thumb for temperature effects on pressure is 1:10. P...
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:56 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surly View Post
There are huge differences in tire pressure due to changing in ambient TEMPERATURE.
There are very minor differences in tire pressure change when using NITROGEN versus ambient AIR.
Maybe that's the confusion

I usually end up tuning for the tires and the car. In almost all cases I maintain the front/rear ratio as it factors into handling balance (more air = firmer = less grip at that axle. Higher pressure in the rear reduces understeer). The only exception was my E39 when using Dunlop Wintersport M3 - then it was happiest with same F/R.

My door sticker calls for 35/39, I'm usually running 36/40
That's a myth, probably mostly propagated by tire salesmen selling nitrogen.

Dry air and nitrogen both obey the Ideal Gas Law. Air with a lot of water vapor in it would deviate slightly from the Ideal Gas Law. The Ideal Gas Law is where Dougie's "ten degrees F equals 1 PSI" rule of thumb comes from.
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Old 09-25-2019, 06:02 AM
nrancour nrancour is offline
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Too much over thinking.

Over my 20 years with a BMW 525i... I run at 35lbs all around at all times.
Then I adjust to match tire wear.
If I notice outer wear, I inflate to 37.
If I notice inner wear, I deflate down to 32.
Rotate every 5000.
I get my tires to wear evenly down to the last 32nd.
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Old 09-25-2019, 06:11 AM
demas demas is offline
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Use the door jamb sticker as a guide and experiment to find what suits you. Tires are different, driving styles different and opinions vary.

Although I have a staggered setup I like running 2.7 bar all around with PSS’s. Car feels firm yet comfortable and reacts the way I like.

275/35/19
245/40/19


Upgrading to PS4S next - they better hold a candle to the PSS’s.



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Old 09-25-2019, 06:37 AM
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Upgrading to PS4S next - they better hold a candle to the PSS’s.

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Can't speak to the PSS's but I have had the PS4S for 10,000 miles now and love them. Good grip, good for cornering, and very good in heavy rain.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:34 AM
demas demas is offline
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Can't speak to the PSS's but I have had the PS4S for 10,000 miles now and love them. Good grip, good for cornering, and very good in heavy rain.


Yes, I hear nothing but good. One of my guys in the office has them on his M4 and raves about them. I do like the plush finish on the sidewalls. Just need to accelerate the wear on my current rears - a problem easily overcome




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Old 09-25-2019, 12:13 PM
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In re radial tire inflation pressure on shoulder / crown wear rates.

The Effect of Inflation Pressure on Bias, Bias-Belted, and Radial Tire Performance, The B. F. Goodrich Co. B. L. Collier and J. T. Warhol.

"The most significant observation is the nearly constant wear ratio of the radial tire, which varies by less than 10% from normal at all pressures [16 psi, 24 psi, 32 psi, 40 psi]."

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Old 09-25-2019, 01:22 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
The Effect of Inflation Pressure on Bias, Bias-Belted, and Radial Tire Performance, The B. F. Goodrich Co. B. L. Collier and J. T. Warhol.

"The most significant observation is the nearly constant wear ratio of the radial tire, which varies by less than 10% from normal at all pressures [16 psi, 24 psi, 32 psi, 40 psi]."
I duh know, Dougie…...

I mistakenly over-inflated the Michelin PSS's I put on my car, based on the pressures needed to get the OE Goodyear LS2's to wear something close to evenly. I measure the depths of the four circumferential channels on my tires. Here's my wear data for the first 6.4k miles on the Michelin's. I was running ~40 PSI in the front and ~45 PSI in the rear. The fronts were not too bad, but the rears were wearing about twice as fast in the two middle channels than in the inner and outer channels.

I'm getting better at measuring and managing the tread depths. By the time the PSS's get 38k miles on them, all the channels will be evenly worn down to 3/32".

How old is that BFG report? I can remember when passenger car tires took 20-something PSI of air... back in the 1970's.
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