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Old 08-23-2019, 05:25 AM
ap14 ap14 is offline
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Potential buyer - please advise

HI all,

I'm about to purchase my 3rd bmw and I need some advice. I had a 740i (E38), best car I ever had, t-boned in an intersection, totalled. Bought an 530i (E39) shortly after, sold only because we relocated. So I am a bit familiar with the cost of maintaining a bmw, at least from that generation.

The one I'm looking at tomorrow is a 2008 X5 3.0 SD (turbo diesel), 7 seater with 160000km on the clock (100000 miles). I'd be looking for any kind of advice from existing owners regarding any possible issues with this type of mileage. My areas of concern are related to DPF, iDrive, electronics in general and transmission.

As a side note, I also looked at an earlier X5, I believe it was a 2003 with the 4.4l gas engine. Comparing with my old E38 I thought the build quality was not as good and left a bit disappointed.

Please chime in. every bit is appreciated.

Regards,
Andre
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:16 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Where do you live? In US and Canada you have emissions system to think about, well documented here.
Elsewhere you donít so solid if the car passes PPI and has been maintained to better than bmw standards.


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Old 08-23-2019, 08:38 AM
ap14 ap14 is offline
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Where do you live? In US and Canada you have emissions system to think about, well documented here.
Elsewhere you don't so solid if the car passes PPI and has been maintained to better than bmw standards.


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Hi Fredo.

I'm in Western Australia and they're pretty lax here about emissions. Very lax as in no emission testing at all. I know, crazy.

I know a few guys who disable the dpf system all together, especially for 4wd rigs that see regular outings in the wild because it does increase the risk of wild fires.

Also, diesel is 10 ppm vs 100ppm in us (last time I was there) so one could argue that with cleaner fuel, the emission system should have a longer life. Then again you have the hot weather to contend with and from previous experience the cooling system on BMWs required periodical, preventative maintenance.

Its things like these I'm looking to find out but from searching through the forum there doesn't seem to be a lot of info on preventative maintenance, especially the kind not mentioned in the dealer schedule...
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:01 PM
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The one I'm looking at tomorrow is a 2008 X5 3.0 SD (turbo diesel), 7 seater with 160000km on the clock (100000 miles)


Okay... so this turned sour pretty fast. The car was missing service records for the past 60k, was purchased from a shady dealer only a month ago and had a message about replacing the dpf along with a few minor things... my guess the guy found out about the dpf after the sale was completed and was trying to pass the buck. Shame. Otherwise it seemed like a good car. I also noticed that the fins from the (I think) power steering cooler were bent... looked like someone did a ghetto repair up front. Enough red flags.


Anyways, moving on. It seems the E70 is ticking a lot of boxes for us. Now I'm looking at an 4.8 gas model from 2007 with 180ks. Any feedback about these? I changed the cats on my 7 with a similar engine around these kms and the tranny was starting to act up. Specifically the torque converter. Any feedback about these? Thanks.
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:14 PM
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The trannys have been reasonably reliable, especially if someone changes ATF before 100k

Not super familiar w the older gassers. But I wouldn't give up on a diesel. You just happened across a thief- go on ya for figuring it out soon.

WA is on our list, next 2 years.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 08-24-2019 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:54 PM
ap14 ap14 is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
The trannys have been reasonably reliable, especially if someone changes ATF before 100k

Not super familiar w the older gassers. But I wouldn't give up on a diesel. You just happened across a thief- go on ya for figuring it out soon.

WA is on our list, next 2 years.
The truth is I'm not very familiar with diesels. I had an E350 with the 7.3l powerstroke but I don't think there's a lot of similarities between the 2 engines. It seems the bmw diesels have more problems than others, say Volvo d5s, I think that's another option for us at this stage.

I love the E70 so far and won't give up on it just yet but in the price range I'm looking at the dpf seems to be an issue.
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:34 PM
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2010xdrive35d 2010xdrive35d is offline
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Originally Posted by ap14 View Post
I love the E70 so far and won't give up on it just yet but in the price range I'm looking at the dpf seems to be an issue.
As much as I've read you're right... but most here would agree the benefits of the engine and model series outweighs the drawbacks.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 2010xdrive35d View Post
]

As much as I've read you're right... but most here would agree the benefits of the engine and model series outweighs the drawbacks.
I'm keeping that in mind. Even with the dpf on it's way out and the service records missing for the past 60k I'd be willing to bite... at the right price. But since the seller didn't seem to be willing to factor in the price of a new dpf, I walked away. A new dpf seems to cost around 5500AUD. I'm sure there's cheaper ways to deal with this issue but without a 4K drop in price I would not be interested. For the record, the seller wanted 16k Aud. That's about 10k USD. I wouldn't pay more than 10k AUD on it, or 6k US. Thoughts?
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:02 PM
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100k miles (160k kms) seems low for a dpf to be on its way out.

SO I wonder if other things are going on to cause running issues leading to the DPF clogging? If someone has been messing with repairs, it causes me to be suspicious of simple answers. If it was simple, they'd have fixed it. Oh, you can clean out DPFs. BMW says 'replace', but the world over they are cleaned and re-used.

Unless you have access to a good diesel mechanic, Id pass- at any price.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

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Old 08-24-2019, 11:41 PM
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100k miles (160k kms) seems low for a dpf to be on its way out. Unless you have access to a good diesel mechanic, Id pass- at any price.
The mechanic I plan to use is myself. I'm not the best, but I'm cheap! ***x1f642;


As a side note there is another x5 for sale in my area with higher mileage, 260000 km, mostly highway kilometres according to its owner. It had a new dpf put in, new thermostat, and new glow plugs with controller. It seems this is a preventative maintenance combo which needs to be done in order to keep the dpf alive and kicking. Another thing which would be on my list is the tranny thermostat. I would actually look into deleting it, since temps around here rarely go below 5 deg Celsius.

I am somewhat skeptical about dpf cleaning especially since the best feedback about them working comes from those who sell it. I'm sure the only way to clean one properly is to take it off the car and send it in. If you have a look at the labour involved in doing that, I think it makes sense to put a new one in. Then you know you're good for another 100 thousand miles. That's about 5 years of driving for most of us. Anyway, that's my take on it.

Cheers.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:38 AM
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... I am somewhat skeptical about dpf cleaning especially since the best feedback about them working comes from those who sell it.
+1
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:02 AM
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get a low mileage car, everything has less wear. Id avoid the diesels completely but thats just me.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap14 View Post
The mechanic I plan to use is myself. I'm not the best, but I'm cheap! ***x1f642;


As a side note there is another x5 for sale in my area with higher mileage, 260000 km, mostly highway kilometres according to its owner. It had a new dpf put in, new thermostat, and new glow plugs with controller. It seems this is a preventative maintenance combo which needs to be done in order to keep the dpf alive and kicking. Another thing which would be on my list is the tranny thermostat. I would actually look into deleting it, since temps around here rarely go below 5 deg Celsius.

I am somewhat skeptical about dpf cleaning especially since the best feedback about them working comes from those who sell it. I'm sure the only way to clean one properly is to take it off the car and send it in. If you have a look at the labour involved in doing that, I think it makes sense to put a new one in. Then you know you're good for another 100 thousand miles. That's about 5 years of driving for most of us. Anyway, that's my take on it.

Cheers.
Big over the road diesels have be using, cleaning and re-using DPFs for years. And yes, you need to remove them- any other method is likely inferior.

Knock yourself out if you want to follow BMWAG directives and toss....but a few hrs wrenching in my garage, waiting for it to get shipped back... Good as new...seems like a no-brainer.

(And if I may....I think it does the community a disservice spreading the 'story' that new is better than cleaned, based on zero data. Doug, ap, if you have data please post it.)

JMHO

Edit: 100k miles life on the DPF is crazy low, based on reporting here. Way low
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 08-25-2019 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:53 AM
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Zero experience reported maybe, but not zero data.

DPF ash is fully fully oxidized making it, it believe, diffficult to affect chemically - including further oxidation at higher temperature.

Joe the ragpicker swearing that his DPF is good as new is not data.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
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Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:02 PM
ap14 ap14 is offline
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Knock yourself out if you want to follow BMWAG directives and toss....but a few hrs wrenching in my garage, waiting for it to get shipped back... Good as new...seems like a no-brainer.

(And if I may....I think it does the community a disservice spreading the 'story' that new is better than cleaned, based on zero data. Doug, ap, if you have data please post it.)

JMHO

Edit: 100k miles life on the DPF is crazy low, based on reporting here. Way low

Hi Ard.

This is not quite first hand knowledge since I don't own a bmw diesel but so far, I looked at 3 cars.

1. 2008 sd 160k - dpf service message
2. 2007 d 268k - dpf replaced
3. 2007 d 150k - dpf replaced las year


These are the cars for sale in my area. Also, it should be noted that Australia has a proper size diesel market, with plenty of diesel specialists.

Again, not first hand knowledge, but it seems replacing the dpf takes a couple of days not hours.

Cheers.
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:38 PM
ard ard is offline
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BMW 'builds in' a warning that comes up and says "replace DPF" based on mileage (we think)...not based on 'this needs replacing NOW as it has failed'.

Also, BMW has done a crap job on their thermostats, and as a result many Ds will run cool- interfering with the DPF function....

I can see the 268k needing it.

You could call a BMW dealer (you trust) (lol, eh?) and see if they would give you the published BMW 'book time' for a DPF R&R. (remove and replace). So just hours of labor to remove old, slap in new. Many (most) dealers pad the labor hours, but maybe you get an honest one or one that knows it isnt a real quote, just info. (FWIW- they can pad hrs for all repairs, EXCEPT those paid by BMWAG.

We dont have a lot of info here on people R&Ring their DPFs (yet). My 'couple of hours' was more of an offhand comment.

GL!
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 08-30-2019, 05:39 PM
ap14 ap14 is offline
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You could call a BMW dealer (you trust) (lol, eh?) and see if they would give you the published BMW 'book time' for a DPF R&R. (remove and replace). So just hours of labor to remove old, slap in new. Many (most) dealers pad the labor hours, but maybe you get an honest one or one that knows it isnt a real quote, just info. (FWIW- they can pad hrs for all repairs, EXCEPT those paid by BMWAG.

We dont have a lot of info here on people R&Ring their DPFs (yet). My 'couple of hours' was more of an offhand comment.

GL!
HI Ard

this is where I took that info from:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1307679

Realistically speaking, if you intend to do the job yourself, it will take you a week. Probably a full day to take the DPF out, send it out for cleaning and then another day to put it back in. It's not an easy job either, hence my suggestion to replace the DPF with a new one. I wouldnt want to do this again. I've seen various DPF cleaning videos with the DPF on the car. I'm sure they do work to some extent. The problem in this case arises from doing a blind job. Without the dpf out you have no way of assessing when the cleaning is complete... Anyways, these are just some things to consider... I think with these cars is best not to cut corners and do a proper job fron the beginning. Most times, this is where you end up anyway.

Cheers.
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:42 PM
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I think with these cars is best not to cut corners and do a proper job fron the beginning. Most times, this is where you end up anyway.

Cheers.
Yup. Do it once.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:50 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Don't mess with the transmission thermostat... It's easy to change anyway and isn't expensive.

As for cleaning ash out of a dpf, if they soak and backflush, it doesn't matter how oxidized the ash is mechanical means by the liquids will get it out.
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:22 PM
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Don't mess with the transmission thermostat... It's easy to change anyway and isn't expensive.

As for cleaning ash out of a dpf, if they soak and backflush, it doesn't matter how oxidized the ash is mechanical means by the liquids will get it out.
Hi Rob.

My reason for deleting the tranny thermostat was based on the balmy temps we get here in Western Australia. And also because I'm not sure how one could tell that it failed. Any idea about that? does it fail in an open position? To my knowledge even the ones designed to fail open are failing in a closed position.

About the dpf cleaning... is that done out of the car?
This is how on the car cleaning looks like :
Do you have any first hand experience with that? Are you suggesting this would restore a dpf to original condition?

Cheers,
A
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:58 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Transmission thermostat would fail open, which is what you would get if you bypassed it. You can check tranny temps with ista+ I'm sure there's no issue...

Don't have time to watch this but if they aren't removing the dpf, that's bs and they aren't back flushing it.
Not sure never did a dpf cleaning, saw home made videos on how to soak and backflush which makes mechanical sense. I think Doug was putting down some companies that just try to burn out all the ash. A

nyway, at 100k you should be fine and if you have codes it could be the engine thermostat causing regen issues, but bmw electronics is so fn stupid that they won't register a bad thermostat or in gassers, a bad electric water pump. I like the e70 but I also hate the poorly executed things with a passion because it's not rocket science yet they managed to not care to do it right. Craftsmanship is extinct in the age of mega corporations and globalism.
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Last edited by robnitro; 08-31-2019 at 12:00 AM.
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