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  #1  
Old 09-19-2019, 02:32 PM
paramedic1079 paramedic1079 is offline
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What a difference with new engine mounts and transmission service

I just had an independent BMW mechanic (All Pro European in North Miami Beach, FL - highly recommend by the way) replace both engine mounts and service the auto transmission on my 11 BMW X5 3.5i and wow did it make a difference in how smooth the car feels. Only one engine mount was bad but I replaced the other as preventative maintenance (only charged me one extra hour of labor). The transmission was smooth before but it is like butter now. I ordered the ZF transmission pan and Liqui Moly ATF fluid off FCP Euro. It was cheaper than ZF fluid and the mechanic recommended it.

On another note, we originally thought the car had a valve cover leak but the valve cover and gasket were actually in great shape. It turned out to be excess oil in the vacuum accumulator and just needed a good cleaning.
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:45 PM
320kplus 320kplus is offline
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Good to know. How many clicks on the clock?

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Old 09-19-2019, 09:21 PM
ard ard is offline
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So you mixed the liquid moly and ZF 50:50? Is that an approved mixture?

LiquiMoly is jsut a marketing company that seems to impress people with their 'made in germany' spin. If you read their specs that say 'this is MADE to be used for [a long list of specs]' but nowhere do they say it meets any of those specs. All they commit to is Dextron VI/Mercon LV. Nothing else
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:41 PM
paramedic1079 paramedic1079 is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
So you mixed the liquid moly and ZF 50:50? Is that an approved mixture?

LiquiMoly is jsut a marketing company that seems to impress people with their 'made in germany' spin. If you read their specs that say 'this is MADE to be used for [a long list of specs]' but nowhere do they say it meets any of those specs. All they commit to is Dextron VI/Mercon LV. Nothing else
Thanks for your input keyboard warrior.
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2019, 10:14 PM
ard ard is offline
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Just want to make sure others dont follow your mistake.

Next time just buy cheap dextron, skip the german hype.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2019, 10:38 PM
paramedic1079 paramedic1079 is offline
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I highly doubt a BMW mechanic, one who worked at the dealership for nearly 10 years before opening his own shop, would knowingly recommend a product that wouldn't be suitable. I get where you're coming from but we often put way too much thought into different types of motor oils, ATF oils, gear oils, etc. I'd also argue that draining and refilling with a quality ATF fluid is better than letting it go the "lifetime" of the transmission.
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Old 09-20-2019, 03:26 AM
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That's an evil mechanic that would knowingly do wrong. They all have their clients best interests in their wallets.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:33 AM
deroy deroy is online now
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Yes! Another oil topic!

Maybe OP should have read the zillion post on transmission services before posting.

OP; this forum (and beyond) unanimously agree zf or bmw original are the only oils that should go in the transmission. Oh, and please donít tell likwee molee also went in the transfer case...


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Old 09-20-2019, 12:57 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Just want to make sure others don't follow your mistake. . . .
Another data point . . . again for others to not make the same mistake . . . I got my Indy to replace the transmission fluid twice . . . at 73,460 miles and 139,029 miles . . . my Indy was absolutely clear about using only the specified ZF fluid . . . in fact he went on to say he has a friend who reconditions transmissions and is very familiar with this transmission . . . he too insists on the specified ZF fluid . . . the dealer tech where I used to do the "free" service also said the same thing . . . but because of BMW's "fluid good for life" claim (which makes sense only if your ownership horizon is about 4 years), BMW tech cannot change the fluid unless the customer pays . . . on his personal BMW vehicle, he changes it about 60-70K miles . . .

Last edited by RPsX5d; 09-20-2019 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Corrected the odometer readings
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:49 PM
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Thanks for your input keyboard warrior.
Keyboard warrior?
ARD has helped out more members here than you ever will in your lifetime

I also only recommend using lifeguard 6 from zf
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:56 PM
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Guys I'm a tad over 70k on my newly acquired 2013 e70 35xi LCI.
Does this apply to me? [providing it hasn't been done already]
TIA!

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Old 09-20-2019, 03:23 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
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Originally Posted by 320kplus View Post
Guys I'm a tad over 70k on my newly acquired 2013 e70 35xi LCI.
Does this apply to me? [providing it hasn't been done already]
TIA!

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It applies to anyone with a ZF transmission.


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Old 09-20-2019, 04:15 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Guys I'm a tad over 70k on my newly acquired 2013 e70 35xi LCI.
Does this apply to me? [providing it hasn't been done already]Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
IMO you should, assuming you plan to own this vehicle for a while and you have the same transmission as my 2011MY, 35d, E70, M57 engine.

In my case, the first transmission service was done at 73,460 miles - only changed the pan and the fluid twice . . . the second time around (139,029 miles), I learned something new and I changed the pan, the fluid twice . . . and also the four rubber sleeves and the seal adapter in the mechatronics unit (see attached file for part numbers) . . . there was a very noticeable difference in how the transmission shifted.

There are a few DIY videos on Youtube that show how to change these parts. I had my Indy do it for me.

You can look up the part numbers I have included in the attached file and work it backward in RealOEM to see where it goes . . . doublecheck these numbers using your VIN in RealOEM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:24 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
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Looking back over this thread. If he had not mixed ZF and Liquimoly would it have been a big deal? I donít mix any two different fluids on my car but if his transmission was hypothetically filled with Liquimoly after being 100% drained could his transmission be just fine for a long time and change the argument a little. Just putting it out there. Not my opinion.


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Old 09-20-2019, 04:42 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Unlike the engine oil, I don't think you can 100% drain the transmission . . . even if you replace the fluid twice you have only replaced a little over half the original volume . . . recalling from memory, initial/factory fill I believe is 10L . . . a double drain/replace will only take about 7L . . . given this, it is best to stick with the same ZF recommended fluid.

No, OP's transmission is not going to quit working suddenly . . . it is simply NOT a good idea to mix fluids . . . and it is unclear to me (other than any cost considerations) why even attempt to not use ZF recommended/approved fluid.

In the case of the engine oil, it is a near 100% drain/refill . . . so yes, I did switch from the BMW dealership provided oil to the Pentosin Super Performance III 5w30 . . . yes, there is "some" mixing happening, but unlike the transmission case, mixing is negligibly small. And a key point . . . the Pentosin is LL-04 certified . . . so meets or exceeds what BMW requires . . .

Not sure if OP's Liqui Moly ATF even meets ZF specs. for this particular transmission.
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:53 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
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Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
Unlike the engine oil, I don't think you can 100% drain the transmission . . . even if you replace the fluid twice you have only replaced a little over half the original volume . . . recalling from memory, initial/factory fill I believe is 10L . . . a double drain/replace will only take about 7L . . . given this, it is best to stick with the same ZF recommended fluid.



No, OP's transmission is not going to quit working suddenly . . . it is simply NOT a good idea to mix fluids . . . and it is unclear to me (other than any cost considerations) why even attempt to not use ZF recommended/approved fluid.



In the case of the engine oil, it is a near 100% drain/refill . . . so yes, I did switch from the BMW dealership provided oil to the Pentosin Super Performance III 5w30 . . . yes, there is "some" mixing happening, but unlike the transmission case, mixing is negligibly small. And a key point . . . the Pentosin is LL-04 certified . . . so meets or exceeds what BMW requires . . .



Not sure if OP's Liqui Moly ATF even meets ZF specs. for this particular transmission.


I was referring to if you dropped the pan, drained the torque converter and valve body. Then refilled. Would we all be against this?


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Old 09-20-2019, 04:54 PM
paramedic1079 paramedic1079 is offline
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Keyboard warrior?
ARD has helped out more members here than you ever will in your lifetime

I also only recommend using lifeguard 6 from zf

Thank you for the recommendation. Hindsight is 20/20. I'm confident my AT will be just fine with Liqui Moly.

On a side note, I don't wake up every morning looking to troll or deliver condescending remarks under the guise of a keyboard like the person in question clearly does.
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:59 PM
paramedic1079 paramedic1079 is offline
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Originally Posted by deroy View Post
Yes! Another oil topic!

Maybe OP should have read the zillion post on transmission services before posting.

OP; this forum (and beyond) unanimously agree zf or bmw original are the only oils that should go in the transmission. Oh, and please donít tell likwee molee also went in the transfer case...


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It was actually recommended to use extra virgin olive oil when the transfer case was replaced <5k miles ago. Runs great.
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:24 PM
320kplus 320kplus is offline
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Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
IMO you should, assuming you plan to own this vehicle for a while and you have the same transmission as my 2011MY, 35d, E70, M57 engine.



In my case, the first transmission service was done at 73,460 miles - only changed the pan and the fluid twice . . . the second time around (139,029 miles), I learned something new and I changed the pan, the fluid twice . . . and also the four rubber sleeves and the seal adapter in the mechatronics unit (see attached file for part numbers) . . . there was a very noticeable difference in how the transmission shifted.



There are a few DIY videos on Youtube that show how to change these parts. I had my Indy do it for me.



You can look up the part numbers I have included in the attached file and work it backward in RealOEM to see where it goes . . . doublecheck these numbers using your VIN in RealOEM.
So I have a 98 E39 with the M62 non vanos engine. I recently acquired a 2013 E70 35xi LCI. I must say I love this transmission. It is so in sync with the engine room's and just makes driving it so much fun. I never even thought about changing the transmission fluid on my E39 as I was always told on the BMW's they're sealed. I've been around car since I was 5, and I still collect them. The e39 was the 1st BMW I was "intimately" involved in meaning hands on day to day.
To that end I've always been suspicious about them being "sealed..." Heat and cold, expansion and contraction eventually break down fluids.
Over the years I've heard some amazing things about Liqui Molly.
I don't know if it's marketing to sell more product or if, [relative to BMW's and some other high end imports] it is indeed just a marketing ploy to sell more product. I have used Molly and it has been around for years and has earned respect. I'm so glad that I'm on this forum because I am going to have my transmission Fluid on my newest acquisition changed. To be honest I'm like a little kid In anticipation of just how much better this transmission might shifts! I love it! To that end though, what and where is the end all be all as I believe in Liqui Molly but want to be 100% certain it belongs in a recipe to prolong the life expectancy of my E70 or not. How do we know unequivocally that the end all, be all is absolutely the closure we all need to make an intelligent decision? What is the strength of the research? I'm hoping some guys I have seen and interacted with before [to my delight] will chime in on here for confirmation, strength of research, and above average research [racing bmw's, instructing credentials, etc. Remember guys, I'm just like you.
Information is the most expensive thing in the world and I want the best of the best. That's why we're on here. To share and educate.

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Last edited by 320kplus; 09-21-2019 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:37 AM
SPL15 SPL15 is offline
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Originally Posted by 320kplus View Post
So I have a 98 E39 with the M62 non vanos engine. I recently acquired a 2013 E70 35xi LCI. I must say I love this transmission. It is so in sync with the engine room's and just makes driving it so much fun. I never even thought about changing the transmission fluid on my E39 as I was always told on the BMW's they're sealed. I've been around car since I was 5, and I still collect them. The e39 was the 1st BMW I was "intimately" involved in meaning hands on day to day.
To that end I've always been suspicious about them being "sealed..." Heat and cold, expansion and contraction eventually break down fluids.
Over the years I've heard some amazing things about Liqui Molly.
I don't know if it's marketing to sell more product or if, [relative to BMW's and some other high end imports] it is indeed just a marketing ploy to sell more product. I have used Molly and it has been around for years and has earned respect. I'm so glad that I'm on this forum because I am going to have my transmission Fluid on my newest acquisition changed. To be honest I'm like a little kid In anticipation of just how much better this transmission might shifts! I love it! To that end though, what and where is the end all be all as I believe in Liqui Molly but want to be 100% certain it belongs in a recipe to prolong the life expectancy of my E70 or not. How do we know unequivocally that the end all, be all is absolutely the closure we all need to make an intelligent decision? What is the strength of the research? I'm hoping some guys I have seen and interacted with before [to my delight] will chime in on here for confirmation, strength of research, and above average research [racing bmw's, instructing credentials, etc. Remember guys, I'm just like you.
Information is the most expensive thing in the world and I want the best of the best. That's why we're on here. To share and educate.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
You sound like you're quite passionate about your automobiles. Can't say I've ever been "intimately involved" with any of my vehicles, but it's a "brave new world" out there these days!

If you want "The best of the best" for your ZF transmission, I'd stick with the ZF transmission oil that's recommended by ZF for your ZF transmission, as others have said... Highly doubtful that ZF makes this transmission oil themselves; however, without knowledge of who actually makes this transmission oil for ZF to put their label on & resell at stupidly high prices, your best bet in making sure your transmission has the oil it was designed to work with, is to use the stupidly expensive ZF trans oil... Unless one has access to, & a very in-depth understanding of the proprietary information that would objectively tell what is different and / or the same between one trans oil & the next, as well as ZF's literature for "why" their spec is what it is; it's purely guessing whether one oil is the exact same, slightly different, reasonably close, "meets spec", or whether one will be "better" or "worse" than another in a given specific application, which will vary depending on exact application, specific model, & age of the transmission. Very few people possess the required knowledge, AND have access to the proprietary info needed to objectively determine whether this or that transmission oil will be better or worse in a given transmission or situation; all there is on the internet are unsubstantiated anecdotal stories of "This **** is awesome", or "It didn't seem to make things bad", or "I saved a bunch of money & don't care"...

Best chance of not running into issues / maintaining specified performance & life expectancy of the transmission, is to use the ZF trans oil (which may or may not be the "best", but we don't have access to the necessary info to know either way). Other trans oils will work, & may work just fine, possibly better, possibly worse; however, there is no guarantee that it is the best, nor is there a guarantee that it won't be worse (regardless of the marketing speak & specification labels). What we do know is that ZF tested & approved the transmission design using ZF's branded oil, where it can be assumed that the transmission will behave properly with ZF oil.

Regarding marketing in general, not specific to any brand or manufacturer: I'll let you in on a secret that a lot of folks don't know / refuse to acknowledge due to willful naivety. Marketing departments are filled with folks who's sole job is to find out how consumers think / feel / perceive the world around them. They spend a metric ****ton of money to do this research w/ focus groups & passionate enthusiasts, such as yourself, & use the information gained to create advertisements, marketing campaigns, & product descriptions that tap into & manipulate subconscious biases / behaviors / feelings / emotions / beliefs / IGNORANCE / fears / etc, with the end goal of creating deaf, dumb, & blind brand loyalty... Look up the works of Edward Bernays; it's quite enlightening...

Also, adhering to a "specification" does not guarantee & mean that one "thing" is the exact same as another "thing" that carries the same spec approval. It simply (hopefully) means that it meets that specification, nothing more... The approval process for meeting a spec could be as simple & BS as self-proclaiming that you do w/ some basic half-ass tests that you performed in house w/ biased technicians (or even completely fake data from stuff I've seen), or a rigorous accredited 3rd party validation process with hundreds of tests w/ large sample quantities with lower AND upper bounds for pass / fail criteria... There may be a few folks on here who are tribologists who know this kinda stuff; but I sure as hell don't know anything about oil specifications / testing / validation, & the majority of folks here don't either, where marketing departments ESPECIALLY don't know ****

Last edited by SPL15; 09-22-2019 at 02:56 AM.
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  #21  
Old 09-22-2019, 04:52 AM
deroy deroy is online now
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Originally Posted by paramedic1079 View Post
On a side note, I don't wake up every morning looking to troll or deliver condescending remarks under the guise of a keyboard like the person in question clearly does.

Youíre in a hole. Stop digging!



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Old 09-24-2019, 06:57 PM
scottalexander scottalexander is offline
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Buying LifeGuard oil from FCP Euro one time, and then getting the oil for free thereafter, seems logical that you would want to change your transmission oil each year.

The drain and fill process takes 25 minutes and its free. Change it ever year.

Is it possible changing the trans oil each year can produce problems?
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:19 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is online now
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Originally Posted by scottalexander View Post
Buying LifeGuard oil from FCP Euro one time, and then getting the oil for free thereafter, seems logical that you would want to change your transmission oil each year.

The drain and fill process takes 25 minutes and its free. Change it ever year.

Is it possible changing the trans oil each year can produce problems?


Not if your transmission is healthy. Changing each year seems excessive. If done right, new fluid should be great.


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Old 09-24-2019, 07:33 PM
Pete_NZ Pete_NZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 320kplus View Post
So I have a 98 E39 with the M62 non vanos engine. I recently acquired a 2013 E70 35xi LCI. I must say I love this transmission. It is so in sync with the engine room's and just makes driving it so much fun. I never even thought about changing the transmission fluid on my E39 as I was always told on the BMW's they're sealed. I've been around car since I was 5, and I still collect them. The e39 was the 1st BMW I was "intimately" involved in meaning hands on day to day.
To that end I've always been suspicious about them being "sealed..." Heat and cold, expansion and contraction eventually break down fluids.
Over the years I've heard some amazing things about Liqui Molly.
I don't know if it's marketing to sell more product or if, [relative to BMW's and some other high end imports] it is indeed just a marketing ploy to sell more product. I have used Molly and it has been around for years and has earned respect. I'm so glad that I'm on this forum because I am going to have my transmission Fluid on my newest acquisition changed. To be honest I'm like a little kid In anticipation of just how much better this transmission might shifts! I love it! To that end though, what and where is the end all be all as I believe in Liqui Molly but want to be 100% certain it belongs in a recipe to prolong the life expectancy of my E70 or not. How do we know unequivocally that the end all, be all is absolutely the closure we all need to make an intelligent decision? What is the strength of the research? I'm hoping some guys I have seen and interacted with before [to my delight] will chime in on here for confirmation, strength of research, and above average research [racing bmw's, instructing credentials, etc. Remember guys, I'm just like you.
Information is the most expensive thing in the world and I want the best of the best. That's why we're on here. To share and educate.

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You sound like you're quite passionate about your automobiles. Can't say I've ever been "intimately involved" with any of my vehicles, but it's a "brave new world" out there these days!

If you want "The best of the best" for your ZF transmission, I'd stick with the ZF transmission oil that's recommended by ZF for your ZF transmission, as others have said... Highly doubtful that ZF makes this transmission oil themselves; however, without knowledge of who actually makes this transmission oil for ZF to put their label on & resell at stupidly high prices, your best bet in making sure your transmission has the oil it was designed to work with, is to use the stupidly expensive ZF trans oil... Unless one has access to, & a very in-depth understanding of the proprietary information that would objectively tell what is different and / or the same between one trans oil & the next, as well as ZF's literature for "why" their spec is what it is; it's purely guessing whether one oil is the exact same, slightly different, reasonably close, "meets spec", or whether one will be "better" or "worse" than another in a given specific application, which will vary depending on exact application, specific model, & age of the transmission. Very few people possess the required knowledge, AND have access to the proprietary info needed to objectively determine whether this or that transmission oil will be better or worse in a given transmission or situation; all there is on the internet are unsubstantiated anecdotal stories of "This **** is awesome", or "It didn't seem to make things bad", or "I saved a bunch of money & don't care"...

Best chance of not running into issues / maintaining specified performance & life expectancy of the transmission, is to use the ZF trans oil (which may or may not be the "best", but we don't have access to the necessary info to know either way). Other trans oils will work, & may work just fine, possibly better, possibly worse; however, there is no guarantee that it is the best, nor is there a guarantee that it won't be worse (regardless of the marketing speak & specification labels). What we do know is that ZF tested & approved the transmission design using ZF's branded oil, where it can be assumed that the transmission will behave properly with ZF oil.

Regarding marketing in general, not specific to any brand or manufacturer: I'll let you in on a secret that a lot of folks don't know / refuse to acknowledge due to willful naivety. Marketing departments are filled with folks who's sole job is to find out how consumers think / feel / perceive the world around them. They spend a metric ****ton of money to do this research w/ focus groups & passionate enthusiasts, such as yourself, & use the information gained to create advertisements, marketing campaigns, & product descriptions that tap into & manipulate subconscious biases / behaviors / feelings / emotions / beliefs / IGNORANCE / fears / etc, with the end goal of creating deaf, dumb, & blind brand loyalty... Look up the works of Edward Bernays; it's quite enlightening...

Also, adhering to a "specification" does not guarantee & mean that one "thing" is the exact same as another "thing" that carries the same spec approval. It simply (hopefully) means that it meets that specification, nothing more... The approval process for meeting a spec could be as simple & BS as self-proclaiming that you do w/ some basic half-ass tests that you performed in house w/ biased technicians (or even completely fake data from stuff I've seen), or a rigorous accredited 3rd party validation process with hundreds of tests w/ large sample quantities with lower AND upper bounds for pass / fail criteria... There may be a few folks on here who are tribologists who know this kinda stuff; but I sure as hell don't know anything about oil specifications / testing / validation, & the majority of folks here don't either, where marketing departments ESPECIALLY don't know ****
I couldn't resist quoting verbosity quoting verbosity.

Who makes it for ZF?
Answer: Shell. Shell makes it. The spec is M1375.4
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2019, 07:45 PM
320kplus 320kplus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_NZ View Post
I couldn't resist quoting verbosity quoting verbosity.

Who makes it for ZF?
Answer: Shell. Shell makes it. The spec is M1375.4
SHELL!!! IT'S SHELL!! Is that verbosity or shell????? Now I'm confused! BAHAHAHAHAHA!
It sounds like the company with the best sales department, marketing and MONEY$$$$$$$ wins! Again.... wait for it.....
INFORMATION IS the MOST EXPENSIVE thing in THE WORLD and whoever has the best and most of the above aforementioned, wins.
Thanks for sharing. Now hopefully your boy can get off the lsd and stop listening to himself talk...

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