E39 key issue. programming to start with a replacement key - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-24-2016, 05:14 PM
Rogerthat Rogerthat is offline
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E39 key issue. programming to start with a replacement key

I bought the $125 master key from the dealer and works fine. Bought the $25 blank from Ebay, had it double cut. Programmed that key...

1. when I program the new key, the dealer key looses its programming. How can I program both?

2. The $25 key came with a chip which I placed in the key. WON"T start the car. (chip in or out) IF I start the car with the dealer key, remove that key, I can then start the car and it will run. But leave the key out for a short time and it won't restart the car?

Anyone have an answer to these?
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2016, 05:57 PM
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TheAngryBear TheAngryBear is offline
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1. Are you doing the initialize steps sequentially or separately? Put the master in and initialize then do the next key starting from the buttons step. Unless you do this only one key is recognized. So do both and see.

2. See 1 and report back.
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2016, 06:10 PM
theWalkinator theWalkinator is offline
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A $125 master key from the dealer is not bad.
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2016, 06:10 PM
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So you might be SOL with your eBay key. See QSilver7's post on eBay keys with explanation.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2016, 07:05 PM
u.nanimous u.nanimous is offline
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This seems to confuse so many people, but the master key fob has 2 totally separate and isolated systems.

The first is the chip that transmits the ISN to the EWS to allow the car to start and does not even run off the battery, it gets a charge off the antennae ring when it is inserted into the ignition, and this is why the valet key will start the car and yet has no battery. Keys from the dealership are actually cut and programmed in Germany based on your VIN to be able to communicate with your EWS (provided it is the original from factory) just to start the car. Any place else that says they can give you a key that starts the car will require you to send them a key that already starts the car (donor to steal the chip out of) or your EWS or they are lying.

The second system works off the battery just to lock/unlock doors and pop the trunk and must be programmed by you, but all keys must be programmed together within 30 seconds. It is not that the key loses any programming, when you program a new key without reprogramming the old keys it is the car that ignores those keys as if they were lost for security purposes. The other purpose of programming the keys all together is for the memory functions, when you use the first key in the programming sequence the seats know to go to memory location #1 without requiring you to push the memory button.

When you program a key, to program the next key you only have to do the button pressing steps. The ignition switch part tells the car you are entering the key programming mode and only need to be done with the first key. Remember though you only have 30 seconds to program all keys, but that should be easy with only 2 although pointless since the eBay key won't start the car without the other key there.

And if you have any more questions regarding keys from the E46/E39/E38 era a search of QSilver7's posts will answer everything. Seriously!
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Last edited by u.nanimous; 02-24-2016 at 07:07 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2016, 11:40 PM
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I've seen advertisements for people who can program brand new keys to start your BMW. I'm not sure if that's true, but one thing to remember.. Qsilvers post is incredibly helpful but a lot changes in 6 years.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2016, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfudge01 View Post
I've seen advertisements for people who can program brand new keys to start your BMW. I'm not sure if that's true, but one thing to remember.. Qsilvers post is incredibly helpful but a lot changes in 6 years.
You are correct! But I think without the programming the key is as stated: good for locking/unlocking. Unless that chip self programs, u.namimous' point on the ISN trumps (backed up by Q).
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:22 AM
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E39 key issue. programming to start with a replacement key

Cool! Because as it is I do want a duplicate key and just ordered the eBay kit -- still waiting for it to arrive from Lithuania or some crap. I do have a question.. I just got the BMW scanner 1.4 , I have a Bluetooth code reader too. How would I go about programming the key myself?
Also I know we've been told you can't zero out a used cluster, but I saw it done on YouTube and assume it was with these tools. My cars mileage is 90k, new cluster is 112k and I need to be able to fix before I install and more problems (from what I hear) are created.

Link to correct post even just about using the software would be helpful.
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Last edited by Jfudge01; 02-25-2016 at 06:23 AM.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:25 AM
Jicafold Jicafold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfudge01 View Post
Cool! Because as it is I do want a duplicate key and just ordered the eBay kit -- still waiting for it to arrive from Lithuania or some crap. I do have a question.. I just got the BMW scanner 1.4 , I have a Bluetooth code reader too. How would I go about programming the key myself?
Also I know we've been told you can't zero out a used cluster, but I saw it done on YouTube and assume it was with these tools. My cars mileage is 90k, new cluster is 112k and I need to be able to fix before I install and more problems (from what I hear) are created.

Link to correct post even just about using the software would be helpful.
This is thread hijacking from the OP but this should help you:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...uster-retrofit

or the zip file on this page:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showt...r-doityourself
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfudge01 View Post
... I do have a question.. I just got the BMW scanner 1.4 , I have a Bluetooth code reader too. How would I go about programming the key myself?...
That equipment WILL NOT program the EWS EEPROM (transponder chip) that is in a used or even a new BMW key that has a blank transponder in it. The EWS transponder (EEPROM) inside the keys have their ISN data "written" to them...and they are 1-time write EEPROMS...they are NOT re-writeable.

Okay...let's give this another go....
  1. The EEPROM (1-time write transponder chip) inside the key has been burned with an ISN (individual serial number) that matches the same ISN that has been coded into the EWS control module and the DME/ECU.

  2. In order to get a NON BMW purchased key to start the car...it will require AFTERMARKET equipment that can retrieve the ISN and key codes that have been coded into the EWS control module. {I think the equipment is called something like AK90 (??) and can be purchased from China}
  3. Once you have that information...you can then use equipment that can write to a blank EEPROM chip inside a non OE/BMW key.

There are also some legit side & internet businesses that have the equipment to capture & write this info to new blank keys etc. (remote keys & non remote keys are available) ...but it requires sending in your EWS control module so that the key code & ISN data can be retrieved, then written to the new keys...plus you will need to purchase new keys to be cut to fit your ignition/lock cylinders.

RPM Motorsports (out of Canada) has been doing this for years...and of late...there have been some vendors in the USA offering this service (I forget their names)...plus in some locals like southern California (or other urban areas with serious car enthusiasts)...you may find local keysmiths that have the aftermarket Chinese equipment to retrieve and burn this info.


BTW...the only way that a blank key that is cut to fit your ignition but doesn't have the EWS ISN burned to its chip (or even a key without a chip) can still start the car...THERE IS A 10 SECOND period where when a working key is removed... EWS DOES NOT REQUIRE key identification. This is why a key that on its own will not start the vehicle...but if inserted right after a working key...will then be able to start the car. (this is also another thing that befuddles those that try to go this route...they are unaware of that small 10 second window...so they get fooled into thinking these eBay keys work)

Why BMW designed that 10 second window...I don't know. But I speculate that it may be to give the system a break from having to verify a key in times that you may pull in to your drive or garage...turn the car off...then realize that you forgot to pick up a loaf of bread or gallon of milk (or something similar) and you immediately restart the car. That 10 second reprieve prevents the system from doing the below:

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2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 2013 F06 650ix Gran Coupe` (Black Sapphire) 1/13 mfg date
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97 740iL (Arctic Silver) <<~>> 99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=637911&d=1538398374&thumb=1&stc=1

Last edited by QSilver7; 02-25-2016 at 07:55 AM.
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2016, 01:33 PM
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Thanks Qsilver.. I'm wondering if this is worth 175 dollars of frustration because I suck at computers
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfudge01 View Post
Thanks Qsilver.. I'm wondering if this is worth 175 dollars of frustration because I suck at computers
Having software/hardware that allows you to communicate with your car's bus system can be beneficial when it comes to diagnostics or changing some coding (like car/key memory features, for instance).

But be certain of what you're getting and what it is capable of doing. Some software is more user friendly...and some of it requires some greater understanding/computing skills...or a manual to help walk you through it.
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2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 2013 F06 650ix Gran Coupe` (Black Sapphire) 1/13 mfg date
(SOLD)
97 740iL (Arctic Silver) <<~>> 99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=637911&d=1538398374&thumb=1&stc=1
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2020, 03:37 PM
rpaitich rpaitich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QSilver7 View Post
That equipment WILL NOT program the EWS EEPROM (transponder chip) that is in a used or even a new BMW key that has a blank transponder in it. The EWS transponder (EEPROM) inside the keys have their ISN data "written" to them...and they are 1-time write EEPROMS...they are NOT re-writeable.
Quicksilver,
Thanks for all your inputs.
I asked this elsewhere in this forum...
Where is the transponder EEPROM in the e39 key located? I should be able to remove it from the defective key and install in the key I bought online. Can someone please send me a picture, showing the location?
Thanks,
Ron
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2020, 06:42 PM
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mattmar1 mattmar1 is offline
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which key do you have? the diamond key? if so, its part of the printed ckt bd assy...cant be changed out
btw,,,youre responding to a 4+ year old post.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpaitich View Post
Quicksilver,
Thanks for all your inputs.
I asked this elsewhere in this forum...
Where is the transponder EEPROM in the e39 key located? I should be able to remove it from the defective key and install in the key I bought online. Can someone please send me a picture, showing the location?
Thanks,
Ron
If you have the new style (diamond shaped) key with the color Roundel...the transponder is soldered to the IC board inside the remote:


The old style remote key and all the other non remote keys...the EWS transponder is a separate chip that can be removed (or lost if one doesn't know what it is and open the key up ):



{the highlighted rectangle in each key below shows the transponder's location inside the key}

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2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 2013 F06 650ix Gran Coupe` (Black Sapphire) 1/13 mfg date
(SOLD)
97 740iL (Arctic Silver) <<~>> 99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=637911&d=1538398374&thumb=1&stc=1
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:06 AM
rpaitich rpaitich is offline
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transponder location

Quote:
Originally Posted by QSilver7 View Post
If you have the new style (diamond shaped) key with the color Roundel...the transponder is soldered to the IC board inside the remote:


The old style remote key and all the other non remote keys...the EWS transponder is a separate chip that can be removed (or lost if one doesn't know what it is and open the key up ):



{the highlighted rectangle in each key below shows the transponder's location inside the key}


QSIlver,
Thanks; that's exactly what I was looking for. But dammit, my key is the later one, with soldered transponder. Am I correct, that it's a passive component? I've had a lot of electronic experience, but I'm a little intimidated to unsolder it. I haven't opened the new $15 key I bought online; in case you have experience with these non-OEM keys, will it look the same on the inside? If so, and if the transponder is passive, it seems all I need to do is to glue the transponder in the same place, in the same orietation.

You've been a great help to all of us; many thanks.
Ron
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:36 PM
528iAut 528iAut is offline
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You put the the whole circuitboard of the old key into the new key you bought, dont start unsoldering things!
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=518505
Wait for QSilver7 confirmation on this but this is what he wrote here https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=518505 answer number 12
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpaitich View Post
QSIlver,
Thanks; that's exactly what I was looking for. But dammit, my key is the later one, with soldered transponder. Am I correct, that it's a passive component? I've had a lot of electronic experience, but I'm a little intimidated to unsolder it. I haven't opened the new $15 key I bought online; in case you have experience with these non-OEM keys, will it look the same on the inside? If so, and if the transponder is passive, it seems all I need to do is to glue the transponder in the same place, in the same orietation.

You've been a great help to all of us; many thanks.
Ron
Check your new remote key to see if it can be easily opened. If it can be opened...see if there's room for the EWS chip you see in the old style remote and the non remote keys. Also check to see if there' s a place to solder the old chip to the board as well as the copper induction coil. The induction coil is needed in the induction process to power the EWS transponder (old & new style remote)...except the old style remote's chip has the induction coil built into the chip (see info below).

If your old chip can't be soldered...again, you can order the less expensive valet key (all plastic) and remove its transponder and place it in your new remote.

If you feel comfortable enough to desolder/resolder the chip from your old remote (and it has an induction coil to help power the chip)...then yes...when it is next to the Ring Antenna which is around the ignition cylinder the chip should be able to send and receive the required data to allow the car to start (if everything is working correctly).

{FYI: beginning with EWS 3.2...the transmitter receiver module was eliminated and its functions were incorporated into the EWS control module}







{old style remote & non remote key's transponder chip's induction process}



{new style remote key's transponder chip and induction process}



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2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 2013 F06 650ix Gran Coupe` (Black Sapphire) 1/13 mfg date
(SOLD)
97 740iL (Arctic Silver) <<~>> 99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=637911&d=1538398374&thumb=1&stc=1
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2020, 05:39 PM
540fan 540fan is offline
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Having gone through key hell before.... don't be cheap and think EBay will save you money... if you can get a dealer key for $125.00 get all the you need. Around here the dealer key will cost 230. A local mobile locksmith can do it for about 200. Also don't believe the quirky videos about disabling the EWS system either. I went through key hell after swaping out the engine on a 740iL that had been dead for three years. All that work and no start. Learned all about the rolling code table between the key chip, EWS, and DME. Some of the same posters here helped me out. In my case my DME was dead and no the $50 ebay DMEs don't work as they are vin coded to the car at manufacture. I had to get a used system with a key chip, EWS, and DME. All was good.

If you need a key just pat 125 and get one.
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Last edited by 540fan; 05-21-2020 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Fing autocorrect
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  #20  
Old 06-28-2020, 06:33 AM
taz. taz. is online now
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Hey guys, do any of you know if the AM China keys work with the memory function.
I have all my original keys, working, with memory and everything, they even make pancakes (jokeing), but I bought 2 virgin flip keys, cut, programmed, and initialized them.
Car opens, starts but the memory functions appear not to cooperate.
No comfort opening of the windows, seats move randomly, not according to my settings. The keys are wrote in slots 5 and 6. Do I need to activate the functions in the GM or I'm just wasting my time.
In GM there are only available keys from 1-4. Is this referring to master keys or to all the 4 keys ( valet and wallet) even though I don't think so because they don't have remote function just rfid
P.S.
The AM keys match OE quality almost


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Old 06-28-2020, 09:57 AM
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Yeah, $125-150 for a good, working key from the dealer is a steal compared to many of the headaches you can/will encounter trying to save $50-100 on FeeBay...
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:04 AM
taz. taz. is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamD View Post
Yeah, $125-150 for a good, working key from the dealer is a steal compared to many of the headaches you can/will encounter trying to save $50-100 on FeeBay...
I have all my original keys, good and working as I previously mentioned.
I.m not saving, just diversifying.

Don't understand the meaning of your post?

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Old 06-28-2020, 10:54 AM
SamD SamD is offline
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Originally Posted by taz. View Post
I have all my original keys, good and working as I previously mentioned.
I.m not saving, just diversifying.

Don't understand the meaning of your post?

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I must confess I did not read the entire thread, but I must have thought you were looking to add a key. Thus, my post. Sorry :-)
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:01 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz. View Post
Hey guys, do any of you know if the AM China keys work with the memory function.
I have all my original keys, working, with memory and everything, they even make pancakes (jokeing), but I bought 2 virgin flip keys, cut, programmed, and initialized them.
Car opens, starts but the memory functions appear not to cooperate.
No comfort opening of the windows, seats move randomly, not according to my settings. The keys are wrote in slots 5 and 6. Do I need to activate the functions in the GM or I'm just wasting my time.
In GM there are only available keys from 1-4. Is this referring to master keys or to all the 4 keys ( valet and wallet) even though I don't think so because they don't have remote function just rfid
P.S.
The AM keys match OE quality almost


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Is there anything in the info below that brings any clarity to the situation? PM-SM stands for ‘power module-seat module”. Apparently the GM does store some seat memory based on key 1, 2, 3, or 4:

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  #25  
Old 06-29-2020, 07:42 PM
taz. taz. is online now
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Mein Auto: '00 520iA
I got the memory to work as well. I think is the way the new AM keys send the signal, I.ve noticed a 0,5-1 s delay after pressing the buttons and after I initialized them and hold open or close down for comfort opening, it briefly starts and stops working.
Valid for both of the new keys, after this it will never "work" until a new initializing.
Everything else works. Open, close, trunk, memo, closing the windows and sun roof when ignition is swi off or driver door is open. I will install probably in tge following weekend an OE alarm and see if the PANIC mode works also. To be honest, I don't really need that function to work that much, the memo if more impt and the auto roll when ignition off, if the car has it why not.
Now off topic, I.m planning servotronic and rain sensor retrofit also, and I have a GM High module, but the car has Low. I.ve been looking through the settings and the Low has servotronic and rain sensor options but are not active. Do you know what is the difference in between them and why the High is required for servotronic and RS.


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