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  #51  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:47 PM
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Sigh, I see your point
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ED#2: 2008 335i 6spd, AW, CR, Alum Trim, PDC, SP, PP, Nav, CA, Heated Seats, Ipod, ED on 5/20, Completed on 6/2, Jetlagged on 6/4 at the office....
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  #52  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:32 PM
status38 status38 is offline
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Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
I wouldn't consider it a penalty, but rather an up charge for getting something more exclusive akin to Individual.

For example, the X5 has saddle brown leather available for an additional $1,450. It's not included in Premium Package. I recall having a fest member in the X5 forum get this and he paid extra.
Oh but it is indeed a penalty.

The only way for this NOT to be a penalty is if Jade Grey cost $2900 BY ITSELF. This would mean the ZPP cuts it in half, which is the value of leather that ZPP adds ($1450).

However, If I had no intentions whatsoever to get ZPP, I would not be getting penalized since Jade is $1450 by itself!

Think about it:
Customer A - "I want a 335i coupe w/ no options but Jade Leather"
Customer A pays Base + $1450

Customer B - "I want a 335i coupe w/ Jade Grey and Premium Package"
Customer B pays Base + ZPP($2550) + $1450

Customer B just paid $2550 for Bluetooth, Auto Dimming mirrors, Lumbar etc.... That's awfully expensive, and definitely a penalty for wanting ZPP in my book.

I would be fine with paying the extra on Jade if they deducted the $1450 from the ZPP, since ZPP is not doing anything with the leather at this point. I would also be more inclined to pay for Jade and ZPP *IF* Jade was $2900 by itself, since ZPP is providing its normal value.

And yes I understand that Priority 1 options should have a price, but this should be things that aren't normally options. I.E. Anthracite Headliner. I'm pretty sure the guys in Europe dont pay for a Saddle Brown Headliner (this is just an example) AND the Anthracite headliner on top of it.
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  #53  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:44 PM
ruxp ruxp is offline
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Originally Posted by status38 View Post
Oh but it is indeed a penalty.

The only way for this NOT to be a penalty is if Jade Grey cost $2900 BY ITSELF. This would mean the ZPP cuts it in half, which is the value of leather that ZPP adds ($1450).

However, If I had no intentions whatsoever to get ZPP, I would not be getting penalized since Jade is $1450 by itself!

Think about it:
Customer A - "I want a 335i coupe w/ no options but Jade Leather"
Customer A pays Base + $1450

Customer B - "I want a 335i coupe w/ Jade Grey and Premium Package"
Customer B pays Base + ZPP($2550) + $1450

Customer B just paid $2550 for Bluetooth, Auto Dimming mirrors, Lumbar etc.... That's awfully expensive, and definitely a penalty for wanting ZPP in my book.

I would be fine with paying the extra on Jade if they deducted the $1450 from the ZPP, since ZPP is not doing anything with the leather at this point. I would also be more inclined to pay for Jade and ZPP *IF* Jade was $2900 by itself, since ZPP is providing its normal value.

And yes I understand that Priority 1 options should have a price, but this should be things that aren't normally options. I.E. Anthracite Headliner. I'm pretty sure the guys in Europe dont pay for a Saddle Brown Headliner (this is just an example) AND the Anthracite headliner on top of it.
That's a good point. This seems pretty brain-dead. I guess you could always order the stuff you wanted from ZPP separately (is everything in ZPP available separately?)
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  #54  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:20 PM
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This makes no sense, although my dealer confirmed this too. How do we get ahold of BMW? At no point have I ever thought of contacting them for anything, but when something is so out of whack like this, maybe they should know? Paying 2x for Jade is not right. Either make it no cost or make it $2900 for non ZPP.
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ED#2: 2008 335i 6spd, AW, CR, Alum Trim, PDC, SP, PP, Nav, CA, Heated Seats, Ipod, ED on 5/20, Completed on 6/2, Jetlagged on 6/4 at the office....
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  #55  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by status38 View Post
And yes I understand that Priority 1 options should have a price, but this should be things that aren't normally options. I.E. Anthracite Headliner. I'm pretty sure the guys in Europe dont pay for a Saddle Brown Headliner (this is just an example) AND the Anthracite headliner on top of it.
This is what the point is- priority 1 options aren't "normally" available for stock, it's exclusivelyavailable for sold orders. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's one thing to order stock and another to order something more "special and unique" than stock. That's why they're charging extra for it.

All the understandable complaints about the issue of charging more for exclusivity could prompt BMW to just shelve the whole priority 1 deal and leave us in the U.S. with nothing more than stock.

It makes perfect sense to me. It's a visual, exclusive upgrade. You naturally have a choice. Choose from the available stock interiors or upgrade to the exclusive priority 1 leather.

Last edited by adrian's bmw; 01-29-2008 at 03:27 PM.
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  #56  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
This is what the point is- priority 1 options aren't "normally" available for stock, it's exclusivelyavailable for sold orders. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's one thing to order stock and another to order something more "special and unique" than stock. That's why they're charging extra for it.
I think what people are trying to argue is not that we are upset that BMW is trying to charge us for the priority 1 option, that is all fine and well. What we are upset about is that non ZPP customers are getting this option for free. It is subsidized for those customers.

For example, I just want leather. Whether I choose the same old Beige, Black, Coral etc, I pay $1450. If I choose Jade I pay $1450. Now assume I want ZPP. If I choose the former, I pay just the ZPP cost. If I choose jade, I pay the ZPP + 1450.

This just echoes the previous post.

Sorry, a lawyer by nature I can't abstain myself from attacking flawed logic.
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ED#2: 2008 335i 6spd, AW, CR, Alum Trim, PDC, SP, PP, Nav, CA, Heated Seats, Ipod, ED on 5/20, Completed on 6/2, Jetlagged on 6/4 at the office....
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  #57  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:26 PM
status38 status38 is offline
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Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
This is what the point is- priority 1 options aren't "normally" available for stock, it's exclusivelyavailable for sold orders. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's one thing to order stock and another to order something more "special and unique" than stock. That's why they're charging extra for it.
But this isnt exactly true. Take a look at the Shadowline trim for 750i's. It is included with the ZSP.

None of the other options require you to pay twice, one for an option version of the item and then a second time for a premium option.
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  #58  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:27 PM
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I think what people are trying to argue is not that we are upset that BMW is trying to charge us for the priority 1 option, that is all fine and well. What we are upset about is that non ZPP customers are getting this option for free. It is subsidized for those customers.

For example, I just want leather. Whether I choose the same old Beige, Black, Coral etc, I pay $1450. If I choose Jade I pay $1450. Now assume I want ZPP. If I choose the former, I pay just the ZPP cost. If I choose jade, I pay the ZPP + 1450.

This just echoes the previous post.

Sorry, a lawyer by nature I can't abstain myself from attacking flawed logic.
Yes this is exactly the issue.
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  #59  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:32 PM
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It's all Adrian's fault!

Boys and girls, it's BMW's rules and their game. In the past they let Lemon go as a N/C P1 option. Now they don't. Don't shoot the messenger because their pricing structure doesn't make sense to you.

On the bright side, current owners with Lemon interiors just picked up an additional $1320 in perceived resale value
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  #60  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by slubu View Post
I think what people are trying to argue is not that we are upset that BMW is trying to charge us for the priority 1 option, that is all fine and well. What we are upset about is that non ZPP customers are getting this option for free. It is subsidized for those customers.

For example, I just want leather. Whether I choose the same old Beige, Black, Coral etc, I pay $1450. If I choose Jade I pay $1450. Now assume I want ZPP. If I choose the former, I pay just the ZPP cost. If I choose jade, I pay the ZPP + 1450.

This just echoes the previous post.

Sorry, a lawyer by nature I can't abstain myself from attacking flawed logic.
I hear your point. The thing is that they're not getting it free. They're paying $1,450 for it. Leather is $1,450 regardless and it's an upgrade from leatherette. But here's the kicker. They can't get it unless they order it as a sold order.

Nevertheless, why are we so concerned about somebody else getting ZPP or no ZPP?

The fact of the matter is that BMW's charging for Jade on top of premium package. Unfortunately, if you want to have something new and exclusive and you're getting ZPP, well, you're going to have to pay for the upgrade. I'm just the bearer of the news.
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  #61  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by status38 View Post
But this isnt exactly true. Take a look at the Shadowline trim for 750i's. It is included with the ZSP.

None of the other options require you to pay twice, one for an option version of the item and then a second time for a premium option.
Shadowline trim is also an a la carte option for $350 for those that don't want sport. Yes, it's bundled with sport.

Better to use the Individual option for the 7, where you pay for the luxury seating package which comes with micro perforated nasca leather but your paying for that package and then paying for the Individual package as well. That's another option of double charging.

Same goes for the X5. If you want Saddle Brown, you pay more for it, but leather is already included in the Premium Package there. It's just one of those things that if you want to be different and have something a little more exclusive, it'll cost more.
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  #62  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:44 PM
status38 status38 is offline
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Originally Posted by philippek View Post
It's all Adrian's fault!

Boys and girls, it's BMW's rules and their game. In the past they let Lemon go as a N/C P1 option. Now they don't. Don't shoot the messenger because their pricing structure doesn't make sense to you.

On the bright side, current owners with Lemon interiors just picked up an additional $1320 in perceived resale value
I'm not attacking Adrian at all. I am just explaining how silly the charges are and expressing my frustration with it. I understand why Adrian has to play devil's advocate, its the company he is working for. I don't fault him for that.

I am not, and have never thought Adrian was trying to "Pull a fast one on me". He has been up front and sent me the inquiries. However, I do think and have explained how it could be perceived that BMW is the one to pull a fast one on customers that want a Priority 1 and ZPP.

In the end I am just upset that I need to give up my number 1 choice interior in order not to feel like I'm getting ripped off on the ZPP.

My apologies to Adrian or anyone out there that may have construed my posts to be an issue with Adrian on a personal level.
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  #63  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
I hear your point. The thing is that they're not getting it free. They're paying $1,450 for it. Leather is $1,450 regardless and it's an upgrade from leatherette. But here's the kicker. They can't get it unless they order it as a sold order.

Nevertheless, why are we so concerned about somebody else getting ZPP or no ZPP?

The fact of the matter is that BMW's charging for Jade on top of premium package. Unfortunately, if you want to have something new and exclusive and you're getting ZPP, well, you're going to have to pay for the upgrade. I'm just the bearer of the news.
Ha, I hear you adrian. No intentions for anybody to shoot the messenger, even though it may come across that way.

I prefer to shoot BMW's decision maker on this issue.
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ED#2: 2008 335i 6spd, AW, CR, Alum Trim, PDC, SP, PP, Nav, CA, Heated Seats, Ipod, ED on 5/20, Completed on 6/2, Jetlagged on 6/4 at the office....
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  #64  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by status38 View Post
I'm not attacking Adrian at all. I am just explaining how silly the charges are and expressing my frustration with it. I understand why Adrian has to play devil's advocate, its the company he is working for. I don't fault him for that.

I am not, and have never thought Adrian was trying to "Pull a fast one on me". He has been up front and sent me the inquiries. However, I do think and have explained how it could be perceived that BMW is the one to pull a fast one on customers that want a Priority 1 and ZPP.

In the end I am just upset that I need to give up my number 1 choice interior in order not to feel like I'm getting ripped off on the ZPP.

My apologies to Adrian or anyone out there that may have construed my posts to be an issue with Adrian on a personal level.
I never thought you or Slubu were attacking me. I do know what it feels like to vent frustration. So ya'll are good. No problem.

Quite frankly, I feel for these guys. As I mentioned before, I apologized for not being aware of the upcharge for this option. My excitement for the availability of this option blinded me from inquiring further especially after seeing the price of this option "blocked" in status38's inquiry. We live and learn.

Nevertheless, I appreciate phillipek's input and everyone else's. I personally don't mind the up charge and am seriously considering replacing my E46 with an E90 or E92 when my lease is up for my new Profiles car. I will definitely be getting either lemon or jade and reluctantly pay extra for it because being unique is certainly worth something these days.
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  #65  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
I never thought you or Slubu were attacking me. I do know what it feels like to vent frustration. So ya'll are good. No problem.

Quite frankly, I feel for these guys. As I mentioned before, I apologized for not being aware of the upcharge for this option. My excitement for the availability of this option blinded me from inquiring further especially after seeing the price of this option "blocked" in status38's inquiry. We live and learn.

Nevertheless, I appreciate phillipek's input and everyone else's. I personally don't mind the up charge and am seriously considering replacing my E46 with an E90 or E92 when my lease is up for my new Profiles car. I will definitely be getting either lemon or jade and reluctantly pay extra for it because being unique is certainly worth something these days.
Or you can just superman your car, montego + coral...
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ED#2: 2008 335i 6spd, AW, CR, Alum Trim, PDC, SP, PP, Nav, CA, Heated Seats, Ipod, ED on 5/20, Completed on 6/2, Jetlagged on 6/4 at the office....
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  #66  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by slubu View Post
Or you can just superman your car, montego + coral...

Naww, that's not me, bro.

I'm either going special paint/Jade for the E92 or special paint/Lemon on the E90. Undecided on which special paint. That is, unless BMW has some decent Profiles program for the 135i convertible. With rates the way they are for 335i vert, I'll have to pass on that model for a couple of years.
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  #67  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:06 PM
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Ok, I tried both email and calling BMWNA to try and get their logic. The email was a total loss, they thought I had a bad experience which didn't even make sense.

On the phone though, I got a real answer: "Honestly, because they can." At least he was honest...
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ED#2: 2008 335i 6spd, AW, CR, Alum Trim, PDC, SP, PP, Nav, CA, Heated Seats, Ipod, ED on 5/20, Completed on 6/2, Jetlagged on 6/4 at the office....
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  #68  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:01 PM
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Ok, I tried both email and calling BMWNA to try and get their logic. The email was a total loss, they thought I had a bad experience which didn't even make sense.

On the phone though, I got a real answer: "Honestly, because they can." At least he was honest...
Is there any way to make a formal complaint to BMWNA?
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  #69  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:25 PM
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Wow this is bizarre.

I'm glad that Adrian noticed in time for his clients; otherwise, there'd be some PO'd customers and who would be responsible for the additional cost.

I can understand making it an upgrade, but it doesn't make sense to penalize only ZPP buyers.

What I find ironic is that I was the 1st one to ask Adrian in a post if it was a free option or an additional charge.

Oh well, I guess this'll save me the extra $475 and I can just stick with AW/w Coral and call it a day.
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[/SIZE]

De-badged 330xi/Mystic Blue/Gray Leather/Alumin. trim/Auto/PP/SP/CA/Fold-down rear seat/alarm. ED date 11/14/05 and redelivery completed 1/14/06. Sold to Carmax 6/7/08 w/ 50,650 miles on the clock

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Old 01-29-2008, 08:49 PM
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So let me just ask this flat out, since I am not 100% clear. So Lemon is now also $1450 more even with the premium package? If so, I might have to change my order to beige. That is just too much on top of the premium package cost.

Also, I am not sure if Adrian gets it yet. No offense man. I really don't know how to explain it better than status38 explained it.

Last edited by TexRob; 01-29-2008 at 08:59 PM.
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  #71  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:28 PM
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I love Jade Gray and I may still go for it, all I'm saying is it would feel less arbitrary, more like Jade Gray was actually WORTH the up-charge, if everyone had to pay it.

Plus, c'mon, it's not extended or upgraded leather. The premium is a bit excessive just for exclusivity. I think a couple hundred bucks would be more like it. At the +$1450 price point they should be offering "extended leather" options. Which I would go for without hesitation, by the way.
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  #72  
Old 01-30-2008, 08:43 AM
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Is there any way to make a formal complaint to BMWNA?
Probably, but it will be ineffective for two reasons:

1) They don't understand either, as evidenced by this new email response:
Quote:
Dear Mr. ***:

Priority One options are special order options, thus there is a premium
charge for these options. I apologize for your dissatisfaction.

Sincerely,

Amber Wood
Customer Relations and Services
Representative
2) We have to understand how much of a minority we really are. Of all the 3 series buyers, how many even know Priority 1 exists? How many then realize or understand that the cost addition of Jade penalizes ZPP owners? Finally, how many of those care enough to talk to BMW? It is a drastic minority.

I'm just wondering if I should continue my back and forth with this Amber lady. I don't want to come across as argumentative, which I will unfortunately, but she still doesn't understand my question.
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ED#2: 2008 335i 6spd, AW, CR, Alum Trim, PDC, SP, PP, Nav, CA, Heated Seats, Ipod, ED on 5/20, Completed on 6/2, Jetlagged on 6/4 at the office....
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  #73  
Old 01-30-2008, 09:27 AM
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Interesting. And I thought the Germans were known for their efficiency and logic...

Seems I may have to ditch ZPP as I want Jade, but don't want to pay $2550 for a garage door opener, dimming mirrors, lumbar, compass, and BMW assist.

Now as I'm still getting ZSP, do the sport seats include lumbar?
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  #74  
Old 01-30-2008, 09:32 AM
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There should be very little confusion about this.

- Priority 1 Leather costs $1450
- Regular Dakota leather costs $1450

- ZPP costs $2500 (or whatever) and $1450 worth of leather is included in that.

So from the above we establish that Priority 1 is not a "cost" option anymore than regular leather is. You are NOT paying more for exclusivity. It costs the exact same as regular leather.

So if it costs the same as regular leather, why would the manufacturer *NOT* include the cost of Priority 1 leather in the Premium Package? Just to screw over people who want ZPP?

There's no justification for it. No matter how you look at it, it makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:40 AM
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There should be very little confusion about this.

- Priority 1 Leather costs $1450
- Regular Dakota leather costs $1450

- ZPP costs $2500 (or whatever) and $1450 worth of leather is included in that.

So from the above we establish that Priority 1 is not a "cost" option anymore than regular leather is. You are NOT paying more for exclusivity. It costs the exact same as regular leather.

So if it costs the same as regular leather, why would the manufacturer *NOT* include the cost of Priority 1 leather in the Premium Package? Just to screw over people who want ZPP?

There's no justification for it. No matter how you look at it, it makes absolutely no sense.
Couldn't agree more. I am sad to lose the auto dimming mirrors though, any way to get those added without ZPP?

Also, does the ED pricing include Jade Gray? When factoring in my dealer profit, should I count it as $1320 (like black, gray, coral, or beige) or is it $1450?
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