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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 08-05-2019, 03:30 PM
Chedley Chedley is offline
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Yes, bad key -the 5th key ?. The EWS does not recognize it, and hence the no start.
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  #27  
Old 08-05-2019, 03:54 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Originally Posted by Chedley View Post
Yes, bad key -the 5th key ?. The EWS does not recognize it, and hence the no start.
Ashamed to say I did not resync DME with EWS yet because I didnt find clear directions and I dont want to mess something up. I think I didnt find where to do it in INPA.
Is it when you activate the ISN number?
Mine seems to match. Should I activate it anyway? Or is it something else?
I scanned my other key, and looks like its key #1. I wonder what happened to keys in between 1 and 5 lol...
I attached some more pictures from scanning Key 1.
I guess even with INPA I still dont know exactly why the key isn't being recognized.
But if my EWS module is functioning, then I can get a new key with chip, AK90 tool and program that key. But it will probably run me down about $100 and I'll have to wait weeks before Chinese AK90 gets to me.
Alternatively I can go to a scrap yard, get a key, DME and EWS, swap those and be able to start the car. It will be faster and less than $100 but then I wont be learning cool stuff how to program a key***x1f60e;
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  #28  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:09 PM
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the car is in emoblizer mode... thats your no start.. and its being caused by an EWS fault..

I dont have a lot of experience with bmw security but basically this is it in a nut shell..

you will need to get a RFID reader.. youll probably need ak90

youll need to confirm the code of the keys vs what the car is looking for... (*youll find you mismatch)

then you will need to re-sync the ews




there where older more crude ways of resync'n the older verisons of ews... but ews2 and 3.... out of my league
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  #29  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:31 PM
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not an expert in keys by any means, but something is fishy here. the keys start numbering with key 0 iirc. the system is allowed up to 10 keys. that keys 1 thru 4 all read as exactly the same..i dunno whats going on. possible someone tried playing whiz kid with an ak90? the car comes with 4 keys loaded in to it from the factory, yet you have a key 5 identifier. ??? someone did something here???
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  #30  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:14 PM
Chedley Chedley is offline
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Well, I think (I guess really) someone (the whiz kid ?) did something with the EWS -added the 5-th wrong key-.
So at this point, re- synching the EWS may not solve anything.
BTW, to synch the EWS-DME: See this thread post #80 and above: (https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-it&p=30205634 )

May be it is easier -and possibly cheaper- to just go to the dealer , fork out a couple hundred $$, give them a copy of your id and the car's VIN #, and if it is valid, they will make and initialize a new good working key. You can then fiddle with AK90 and ebay keys...to duplicate it.
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  #31  
Old 08-06-2019, 02:48 AM
540fan 540fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chedley View Post

May be it is easier -and possibly cheaper- to just go to the dealer , fork out a couple hundred $$, give them a copy of your id and the car's VIN #, and if it is valid, they will make and initialize a new good working key. You can then fiddle with AK90 and ebay keys...to duplicate it.
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:20 AM
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im never an advocate of dealer.. BUt sometimes keys and tumblers and cylinders are just faster at the dealer....



not to mention you can tow the car there they can do the key and it still might need other work....
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2019, 09:58 AM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Chedley

Unfortunately that thread is for E46 and in my INPA there is no such option to synchronize EWS-DME like the one we can see on screenshot of the thread you posted ***x1f61e;
I called the scrap yard, unfortunately they dont keep the keys to the vehicles, or I could've solved my problem very easily.
I called the dealership, and the basic key will cost $100.00 which is reasonable I believe. 1-2 weeks to get the key.
But now I'm kind of sceptical of ordering that key. What if whoever fooled around with the vehicle did something else and the key from the dealer wont work...
I dont mind paying $100 for a working key but I dont want to pay $100 for one more useless key haha ***x1f642;
It's still not even clear why the keys I have are not working***x1f937;***x200d;***x2642;***xfe0f;
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  #34  
Old 08-06-2019, 10:10 AM
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one thing to be aware of, doesnt mean much at this point....for the DME-EWS, starting the car is a 2 step process. once the key is recognized by the EWS, it will allow the car to turn over. this is accomplished directly by the EWS module. but not necessarily start. this is where the DME-EWS sync comes in to play, the EWS sends a code to the DME, if it is accepted (this is where the rolling code comes in to play, DME-EWS sync), fuel pressure and ignition spark are enabled, allowing the cranking engine to start. that you cant get the engine to even turn over makes me suspect step #1. key 5 definitely isnt being recognized, so it cant allow the car to turn over. starting the engine (enabling fuel and spark) doesnt come in to yet play at this point. tho action/lack of action of the other key,,,dunno.

just saw your newest post, we must have been typing at the same time. have you read thru the link i sent you in my post #4?
resyncing the EWS-DME i believe is in the DME section of INPA, not the EWS. but it doesnt matter at this point, youre not even getting to step 1 of the start process at written above in this post. get er to cranking first. then worry about DME-EWS sync.
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  #35  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:42 AM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Yes you're exactly right, the car wont even turn over. So the key is not even recognized.
But it's not like the keys are fake or anything like this. Even INPA shows that one key is key #1, so it's been with the vehicle its whole life. It opens the doors and trunk, turns inside the lock cylinder.
In INPA for my car there is no DME module that I see.
I used a tool called EWSSycn from this thread.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...0-vagcom-cable
It synced successfully but the car still wont crank. Nothing change...
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  #36  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:25 PM
Chedley Chedley is offline
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Alright,,,, so where is this key #1 that worked on the vehicle its whole life, and that opens the doors, trunk and lock cylinder ??
Or would you have the valet key - it is a plastic key that comes with the car, and can start it, but without the transponder thing.

That is the key that you need to use...not a badly rigged botched Ebay key.
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  #37  
Old 08-06-2019, 04:17 PM
Buick Buick is offline
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No crank no start problem

I had a similar issue with one of my 99 model 740iL. Of “no crank no start problem.

I can appreciate the many twists and turns a no start problem search in our complicated modern cars can have.
My technical motor engineering teacher always highlighted to “check the simple things first”.

After checking all possible terminal connections & even suspecting the EWS.
I simply pulled the starter motor out & found the starter solenoid to be faulty.
I opened up the crimped casing to expose the main started contacts, & sure enough they were chaffed with a crust of burned metal.
Managed to clean the & problem solved. These modern solenoids are not meant to be rebuilt
Or serviced but are a throw away items.
Another similar on my other 740iL was a engine control fuse in the glove box compartment.

Good luck
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  #38  
Old 08-06-2019, 04:36 PM
esteban8 esteban8 is offline
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battery cable

low voltage is a killer, check the condition of the positive battery cable from the back of the car to the front.
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  #39  
Old 08-06-2019, 06:02 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chedley View Post
Alright,,,, so where is this key #1 that worked on the vehicle its whole life, and that opens the doors, trunk and lock cylinder ??
Or would you have the valet key - it is a plastic key that comes with the car, and can start it, but without the transponder thing.

That is the key that you need to use...not a badly rigged botched Ebay key.
Well it's the key #1. I have two keys as per screenshot. One key is #1, the other key is #5.
I thought #1 key was the first key created for this vehicle.
Up to this point we dont really know what happened to the other key, so we're only assuming it's a botched key from ebay. They both look like OEM keys to me.
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  #40  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:32 PM
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your 5th pic....looks like it says DME to me. right there on the right, select the one that fits your car.
why are you still trying to sync the DME and EWS? youre not near that point yet, if thats even the issue.
look at your post #27. no dots are black...its ok with your key. #1
#1 is just the number assigned to the key, not necessarily the first key.

have you read the link i put up earlier?

here's another one for you...https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...t-EWS-problems.... very applicable to your specific issue, same year model car. look especially at post #6, the line that starts with "EDIT: IMPORTANT NOTE - the EWS sync in INPA makes a synchronization of the ISN (sync code) between the ECU and EWS. It has nothing to do with the keys and can repair nothing but a situation when the starter turns over, but the engine does not fire up due to EWS sync error."

" It has nothing to do with the keys and can repair nothing but a situation when the starter turns over, but the engine does not fire up due to EWS sync error." pay very careful attention to this statement. he's saying what i said before..the two step startup procedure, first uses EWS only, to get the engine to crank over. no data/sync changes hands tween the EWS and DME until crank is ok'd by the EWS.

post #37 in this thread makes a lot of sense. have you looked at the basics? is the starter getting switched power to the solenoid?
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  #41  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwe39528i View Post
Yes you're exactly right, the car wont even turn over. So the key is not even recognized.
But it's not like the keys are fake or anything like this. Even INPA shows that one key is key #1, so it's been with the vehicle its whole life. It opens the doors and trunk, turns inside the lock cylinder.
In INPA for my car there is no DME module that I see.
I used a tool called EWSSycn from this thread.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...0-vagcom-cable
It synced successfully but the car still wont crank. Nothing change...
oh man be careful with these kluges unless you really really know what youre doing. all youre doing from what i can see from that thread is trying another way to resync DME-EWS. which aint your problem ennyways.
that one and/or the other of the keys will unlock the drivers door trunk and turn in the ignition tumbler means nothing other than that key is mechanically cut correct. its the electronics inside the key that decide is itll allow it to start the car, specifically the transponder chip. the 3 buttons are just for the alarm and remote functions, in your YM there is a separate chip that is the transponder, a small black piece of plastic, the larger circuit board has nothing to do with starting the car.
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2019, 10:15 AM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Buick - You have the smart approach. I think in my situation, I need to short the starter directly to see if it works. I'm looking into it now, trying to find a video for E39 shorting starter. I found a thread on E36 when the person shorted the starter directly from the 20 pin port.
I wonder if this would work on E39 as well. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...umping-starter
Otherwise looks like I have to remove a bunch of stuff to get to it, maybe even remove the manifold. I know everyone said not to trust anyone, but the person I bought the car from said the starter was checked at the garage and was working.
That's why I didn't consider it very strongly. So far every single thing I checked, I saw that the previous owner went there

esteban8 - I will post pictures for front voltage. Unfortunately the car is on the street and I can't really go full blown attack mode on it. It's been lowered so no way I could get under. I will just take voltage from front terminals.

Mattmar1 - Nope bud, in picture 5 you're looking at different DME's for different engine models. I have to choose my DME's version. My DME model is Siemens MS41.1. Very rare DME actually for E39. It looks like it was only made for 528i years 1997-1998. https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...nt_Systems.htm
I just tried to resync DME-EWS for the first time. I thought that's what I was told to try and do in INPA but I didn't know how so I used a different tool.
I will try to get to the starter and short it, see if it turns. If not it could be antenna ring. I know I'm not supposed to trust but the person I bought it from said he checked those.
I found a website on how to reflash DME coded for EWS delete. I think doing that will give me some new information to work with.
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  #43  
Old 08-07-2019, 12:20 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Recharged the battery overnight.
I get full volts on the front posts.
Unfortunately I dont have pin 11 in my 20pin plug and I cannot short the starter from 20 pin plug.
I confirmed with the previous owner, he said the shop checked the starter and it was good. I would recheck it myself buy it's kind if a hassle. He also tried changing the antenna ring.
My next step is to reflash the DME with EWS delete if I can find it.
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=42&t=11140
If I cant, I will go ahead with a key from the dealer.
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  #44  
Old 08-09-2019, 05:03 AM
MotoRyan MotoRyan is offline
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I know there are multiple threads on how-to with INPA. But if you have the time to DM me with what you got working on Win10 I would be grateful.
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  #45  
Old 08-10-2019, 04:20 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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MotoRyan sent you the link

So I did the EWS delete by editing the code of my DME. I made sure it saved property on the DME. After flashing the DME, I turned everything off and then on again and read a partial dump from my DME. The dump had the correct code for deleted EWS so EWS should now be bypassed!
I found another interesting video in diagnosing E39 no start no crank. Watch from minute 13
It says that if you turn the key to the first position "ON" and then open the door, it should beep. If it doesn't beep, it's either the EWS, the antenna ring or the ring itself. Well if I deleted EWS, it shouldn't be a problem and should work with my key. The ignition switch I already took pictures of and it looked find. The ring antenna was replaced.
Looks like I made a full circle and still no luck

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  #46  
Old 08-10-2019, 05:48 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Just asked the guy I bought the vehicle from. He said he also tested the ignition switch by putting in one from a working car.
I just did some testing. My switch has 8 connectors. 3 in top row, 3 in the middle and 2 at the bottom.
Three pins in the middle have 12Volts all the time as in this video

Three top pins have power (12v) in them when key is turned to the last position (before cranking)
Two bottom left pins also have 12 volts in them when key turned to run positing (before cranking).
The right lower pin only has power to it when the key is in spring loaded position (crank position). When it's in run position, the voltage jumps around a bit but is approximately 4 volts.

Update: went and tried to turn the key to the first click on my working car that I drive every day. Opened the driver's door and no beeping. Obvisoulsy this video guy is very wrong about how to diagnose the no crank.

So I'm thinking the very last thing to test is the starter.
Should I remove it and connect it to a battery or should o try jumping it on the car?
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  #47  
Old 08-12-2019, 03:15 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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Mystery continues. I shorted the starter directly and it cranks.



Maybe it's the solenoid
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  #48  
Old 08-12-2019, 08:39 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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I cleaned that solenoid wire with a metal brush as well as the bolt it attaches to and now I have CRANK!!

I hope this will help somebody one day
Now new condition, crank no start lol
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  #49  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:12 PM
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mattmar1 mattmar1 is offline
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*doink*

check for fuel pressure and spark, lack of both lends one to believe it may now be an EWS-DME sync issue. if its just one or the other missing, its not a sync thingie and needs to be t-shot out. with all the off the wall stuff you tried before now, easy enough ot have knocked it outa sync. read thru the link i put up in post #4 above, if its a sync problem, its fully explained in it how to do it correctly, or diagnose if needed. keep the battery charged up always.
if you find no spark only, look at the DME fuses.
if no fuel pressure only, check fuel pump and fuel pump relay.
*when one heard hoofbeats, look for horses, not zebras*
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Last edited by mattmar1; 08-13-2019 at 05:38 PM.
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  #50  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:59 PM
Bmwe39528i Bmwe39528i is offline
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I checked all fuses and all relays I could find, they're all good.
I have no spark and no fuel.
There should be no issue with sync, I coded out the EWS from the DME so that's taken care of.
Every couple of days I take the battery inside to recharge. 3 days ago I put it back the wrong way by mistake. Since then I cannot use the scan tool ***x1f61e;
I dont know if I burned the DME...
But wont give up until I fix it.
I may go to the scrap yard and get another DME, put it in the car and disable EWS on it
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