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  #1  
Old 06-29-2020, 08:30 PM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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2011 328i Multiple Codes and Readouts

Hey All,

So I've searched this forum to gain as much info as I cn and I still need your help. I have a 2011 328i that about 3 weeks ago stalled as soon as I started it. I received a bunch of errors such as Transmission Malfunction, DTC, Reduced Engine, P1727, P0335, etc etc.

Since then, I've taken it to the stealer to have it diagnosed. They said it was a bad Alternator and Crankshaft Position Sensor. I asked them why they thought the Alternator was bad and they said it was pushing 16 volts. Now in my experience, when the Alternator is bad it pushes less if any volts at all. If it pushes more, it is the Voltage Regulator.

I have now changed the Voltage Regulator and the Crankshaft Position Sensor and cleared the codes.

I still get the Transmission Malfunction Error, DTC Error, P1727 and P0335. I no longer have the Reduced Engine Errors and the performance has not been reduced.

I am at a complete loss.

Please help.
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  #2  
Old 06-29-2020, 09:37 PM
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2NASpec 2NASpec is offline
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Well, did you verify that your alternator is no longer putting out 16 volts like the dealer said it was? Improper voltage can cause the DME and TCU to throw all kinds of codes. You should also get a BMW capable scanner to re-scan all modules for codes.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:39 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwadrenaline View Post
... 2011 328i that about 3 weeks ago stalled as soon as I started it. I received a bunch of errors such as Transmission Malfunction, DTC, Reduced Engine, P1727, P0335, etc etc. [were P1727 & P0335 the ONLY Fault Codes you read, and was that with a P-code Reader that ONLY connects to the DME? You likely have a Fault related to the Left-Front Wheel Speed Sensor that is saved in the DSC Module, and a P-code Reader CANNOT read that. If the car runs OK, go to nearest Autozone, Advance Auto, other parts store that offers free Code Scan and see what other codes are present. Take camera to take photo of each screen. Post result of Scan of ALL Modules (or at least DSC) here. I presume the NON-P-code "errors" you reference are simply Warning Lights on Instrument Cluster for DSC, Trans (Gear Icon) and "Half-Engine"?]

Since then, I've taken it to the stealer to have it diagnosed. They said it was a bad Alternator and Crankshaft Position Sensor. I asked them why they thought the Alternator was bad and they said it was pushing 16 volts. Now in my experience, when the Alternator is bad it pushes less if any volts at all. If it pushes more, it is the Voltage Regulator. I have now changed the Voltage Regulator and the Crankshaft Position Sensor and cleared the codes. [You are correct about OVER-VOLTAGE being caused by a $31 Voltage Regulator. Have you monitored System Voltage as you drive, either using Scan Tool displaying System Voltage Parameter, or Hidden Menu 9.00? Reason I ask, is that Over-Voltage (in 16V to 17V range) can cause a "Light Show" on Instrument Cluster with warning lights coming on. However, it SOUNDS LIKE you have an issue with Engine Speed communication TO the DME (P0335), and from the DME to the EGS (P1727), AND something in the DSC, such as wheel speed sensor fault]...
Do I understand correctly that the car has Started Normally, and has run normally (except for Half-Engine light) at ALL times before & after visiting Dealer? Did Dealer advise of any NEW/ Additional Codes?

AFAIK, if the Crankshaft Position Sensor signal is entirely missing, the engine will NOT fire during starter cranking, as that signal is needed to time Ignition & Injector Pulse (along with Cam Position Signal). Is Tach function Normal?

If you could provide a Scan of the Dealer Invoice, we might see some clue as to testing with INPA/ISTA, etc. If you have a Windows Laptop, NOW might be a good time to invest $45 in BimmerGeeks K+DCAN Cable and Download BMW Standard Tools, which includes INPA Diagnostic Software (FREE Download). We can walk you through how to read Faults in ALL Modules, and get DETAILED Information on DME Faults, EGS Fault, & DSC Fault. If the car now starts & performs normally, it's probably something silly that the Dealer SHOULD have easily diagnosed. OR, your Voltage Regulator R&R may NOT have fixed the issue. Check System Voltage as you drive.

George
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:49 PM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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Checked the Battery and the Alternator after installing the Voltage Regulator. Back to normal but can't remember the numbers off the top pf my head to headed out to check them again right now.





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Old 06-29-2020, 11:23 PM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Do I understand correctly that the car has Started Normally, and has run normally (except for Half-Engine light) at ALL times before & after visiting Dealer? Did Dealer advise of any NEW/ Additional Codes?

AFAIK, if the Crankshaft Position Sensor signal is entirely missing, the engine will NOT fire during starter cranking, as that signal is needed to time Ignition & Injector Pulse (along with Cam Position Signal). Is Tach function Normal?

If you could provide a Scan of the Dealer Invoice, we might see some clue as to testing with INPA/ISTA, etc. If you have a Windows Laptop, NOW might be a good time to invest $45 in BimmerGeeks K+DCAN Cable and Download BMW Standard Tools, which includes INPA Diagnostic Software (FREE Download). We can walk you through how to read Faults in ALL Modules, and get DETAILED Information on DME Faults, EGS Fault, & DSC Fault. If the car now starts & performs normally, it's probably something silly that the Dealer SHOULD have easily diagnosed. OR, your Voltage Regulator R&R may NOT have fixed the issue. Check System Voltage as you drive.

George
Correct, The car runs normal both before and after visiting the dealer. No new codes except he pointed out the Brake Error is the ABS Sensor and not the pads.

Tach Functions normal, the videos show the tach for a few seconds.

I am looking into this cable and software now and THANK YOU!

Check the voltage as I drive. Would that be using a Meter connected to my cigarette lighter?


Thanks again!
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:44 PM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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Which cable do you recommend?

https://www.bimmergeeks.net/product-...eeks-pro-cable

https://www.bimmergeeks.net/product-...dition-k-dcan1
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  #7  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:56 PM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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Very little here but this is what they gave me. never mind my smart ass scribble on the page.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/y9mxat6TVrAZRcFA8

Last edited by bmwadrenaline; 06-29-2020 at 11:58 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2020, 10:02 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwadrenaline View Post
... car runs normal both before and after visiting the dealer. No new codes except he pointed out the Brake Error is the ABS Sensor and not the pads. [there is a "Wheel Speed Sensor" at each wheel (4 ;-) and the DSC Module causes the Brake Fluid Pressure to be decreased on a wheel turning SLOWER (Locking-up) than others. If there is an "Implausible"/ missing signal from one of the wheel speed sensors, the ABS light comes on, and that function is disabled (you have braking WITHOUT ABS "oversight").]
Tach Functions normal, the videos show the tach for a few seconds.
Check the voltage as I drive. Would that be using a Meter connected to my cigarette lighter?...
That would take some rigging. Two best ways I know are:
(1) Activate "Hidden Menu 9.00" to display System Voltage on the Instrument Cluster. Bad thing about that is you have to Activate it again every time you turn Ignition ON. Procedure:
http://e90.wikifoundry.com/page/BC+hidden+menus

2) If you have a Scan Tool that can display Parameters, PID's, or Live Data in Real Time (most do) there SHOULD be a "Control Module Voltage" Parameter or Value that you can read with Tool connected to OBD II Socket & Ignition ON.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwadrenaline View Post
Which cable do you recommend?...
I've used the BG Pro K+DCAN cable, $45, for 2+ years with NO issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwadrenaline View Post
Very little here but this is what they gave me. never mind my smart ass scribble on the page.
The Stealer who puts the "$" in $tealer.

According to that Printout, your vehicle is a "Total Loss" (Repair Cost Exceeds FMV - Salvage Value).

Glad to see you knew about the Voltage Regulator causing "Over-voltage". Even if you had to replace the entire Alternator, you can get a Bosch "Reman" for less than $400 and replace it yourself in 2 hours or less. Another classic example of WHY anyone with "Out-of-Warranty" vehicle is "taken" if he can't do his own diagnosis & basic repairs.

That's AMAZING that there are NO facts as to tests or test results shown in the printout, other than the 16.5 V, which anyone could read at the Jumpstart Terminals with a $6 multimeter, and they charge you $195??? It takes ~ 2 minutes to connect a Laptop with INPA to your OBD II Socket and read "Functional Jobs" > F4 Error Memory, ALL Modules. THAT data would show WHAT Wheel Sensor, or other Fault, is causing the DSC/ABS warning lights to come on.

As stated before, ANY Advance Auto, Autozone, etc. can read DSC Fault Codes for free, so while you wait for K+DCAN Cable, take advantage of that service (for those in US). If you post any Fault Code number here, we can help witn interpretation, OR you can get your own idea of what it means by using BMW Fault Code Lookup:
http://www.bmwfault.codes/

Word of Caution regarding INPA: While it provides MORE Diagnostic Data than anything I know of, much of the technical terminology is in German, and you have to use Google Translate and knowledge/concepts of correct English technical terminology to correctly apply that data. So it is something that you want to learn how to use, one project or Module/ System at a time, but with shared information with Forum Members to speed the learning process. Let me know if you get the Cable & Download, and I will provide a pdf that explains how to get started using it, first to simply understand what Modules are in your vehicle, and then to Read Fault Codes in ALL ~ 20 Modules, which only takes ~ 2 minutes when INPA is setup & used properly.

George
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:35 AM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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Yeah, I got lucky and didn't pay anything for the diagram the $teeler. I had previously called Corporate and they suggested I get the Footwell Module replaced as it is the only part under warranty or recall that hasn't been replaced on this car. When I brought that, they waved the fee. Like you said they didn't do much.

I got into the hidden menus and the diag codes were 0008h and 08D0h

I also used menu 21 to rest everything, restarted and all the same errors appear.

I checked the voltage while driving and it was 13.8 dropping to 13.6 and as high as 14.

Seriously appreciate your knowledge brother!

Oh and Autozone codes were the same P1727 and P0335

A couple of questions for you.

The CSPS I bought was VDO OEM from Pelican Parts. Do you think it maybe faulty?

If the middle in the block of 5 fuses under the cowl on the passenger side was bad, the car wouldn't start at all, right?

Is there a CSPS Relay?
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:11 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwadrenaline View Post
... I got into the hidden menus and the diag codes were 0008h and 08D0h [I'm NOT familiar with those "codes". What "Menu" displayed those, and do you know of any "De-coder" that gives definitions?]
I also used menu 21 to rest everything, restarted and all the same errors appear. [I'm NOT aware of WHAT "Hidden Menu 21.00 is supposed to "Reset". Do you have any information on that, or a link to any such info?]... Autozone codes were the same P1727 and P0335 [I thought you had a DSC or ABS warning light on the Instrument Cluster. Did "Autozone guy" indicate if his Scan Tool could read ABS/DSC codes on BMW?]
A couple of questions for you. [3 actually, but who's counting? ]
The CSPS I bought was VDO OEM from Pelican Parts. Do you think it maybe faulty?
If the middle in the block of 5 fuses under the cowl on the passenger side was bad, the car wouldn't start at all, right?
Is there a CSPS Relay?
Time to get familiar with TIS; it has SO MUCH information that you need to spend a few hours understanding ALL the information it can provide, and HOW to access it:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

Open that link, enter the Last 7 Characters of your VIN in the search box and press Enter or click "Submit". Save/Bookmark the resulting page and use that page to find information on YOUR specific vehicle in the future. Here are TIS wiring Diagrams for "Valve Gear", Fuse F07 which powers the VVT (Valvetronic) Relay K6319a, as well as the "Installation Location" for Fuse F07, in the "E-box"; also Fuse F11 which powers the Crankshaft Sensor:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...sensor/vOpiTYU
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...7-fuse/uJNUdaW
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...7-fuse/SIxpcgV
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e90-328i-lim/vCFKEe3

AFAIK, there is ONLY ONE fuse in the E-box on models built AFTER 3/1/2007, and that is fuse F07. Models built BEFORE 3/1/2007 had ~ 9 fuses in the E-box. Also AFAIK, either lack of power to, or malfunction of, the Valvetronic system will NOT prevent the engine from firing. It WOULD cause it to run in limp mode, VERY limp as the Throttle Valve assumes throttle control and the Eccentric Shaft control of "Valve Lift" is abandoned. If you have MORE than the single F07 fuse in your E-box, please attach a photo for my "continuing education".

There is NO Separate Relay or Fuse for the Crankshaft Position Sensor, but ONLY the DME Main Relay which powers fuse F11 and OTHER things (such as the DME itself). AFAIK, if the crankshaft sensor were NOT powered, the Starter would crank, but the Engine would NOT fire or run. Same for a faulty signal from the CPS, as the DME needs CPS signal and at least ONE Camshaft Postion Sensor Signal to be able to properly "Time" Spark & Injector Pulse.

George

Last edited by gbalthrop; 06-30-2020 at 03:18 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-30-2020, 04:20 PM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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Wow! That's a goldmine of information I thought I'd have to buy the Bently Repair Manual to access.

The diag codes were 0008h and 08D0h shown using hidden menu 01.03.

Looking further into it, it looks like menu 21 is a software reset, lol.

Autozone had a very basic handheld scanner and while the scanner showed 5 errors, it only printed out two and the guy didn't know why.

LOL, on the 3 questions instead of 2. I thought of one more as I was typing them, haha.

We are going to pull the sensor and test the wiring harness, then reinstall the sensor. Fingers crossed.

I am also going to change the ABS sensor on the right rear and see if that deletes the brake sensor issue(dealer said pads were ok and sensor was broken).

Last edited by bmwadrenaline; 06-30-2020 at 04:21 PM.
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  #12  
Old 06-30-2020, 07:31 PM
bmwadrenaline bmwadrenaline is offline
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Ok, the good news, removing and replacing, testing the wiring harness and checking the 1 20 amp fuse resolved the issue. All errors, dash lights and P Codes are gone. No more slight hesitation when you first step on the gas, forgot to mention that earlier. The only thing that needs to be replaced now is the brake ware sensor. I was sent the wrong part.

Thank you for all your input, knowledge and help with this. I learned a ton and will continue to read through all of the resources.

At the end of the day I'm not sure why this resolve the issue but it did and she's back on the road
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:37 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwadrenaline View Post
Ok, the good news, removing and replacing, testing the wiring harness and checking the 1 20 amp fuse resolved the issue. All errors, dash lights and P Codes are gone. No more slight hesitation when you first step on the gas, forgot to mention that earlier. The only thing that needs to be replaced now is the brake ware sensor. I was sent the wrong part... At the end of the day I'm not sure why this resolve the issue but it did and she's back on the road
DIY "Electrical" RULE #1: ALWAYS check the Component Connector and wiring between the Component/ Sensor and Control Module. Check Pins & Sockets VISUALLY for corrosion or damage, and wiring for insulation damage. Test ELECTRICALLY for continuity with resistance ~ 0 Ohms. Connectors and associated wiring are often the cause of the issue rather than the Component/ Sensor.

Usually when disconnecting something and then reconnecting it makes the issue go away, the CAUSE of the issue was that the connector Pins/ Sockets were loose, damaged or corroded, so that contact was either intermittent, or higher resistance than proper, which alters the signal to the Control Module.

If you have NO Warning Lights, you do NOT have a Brake Pad Wear Sensor issue. You have a wear sensor on Left-Front Inboard Pad, and on Right-Rear Inboard Pad. I believe the cables are different length, and MAY be vehicle-specific in length as well. You have FOUR (4) Wheel Speed Sensors, but if you have NO ABS or DSC warning light, there is NO Fault there EITHER.

Short Story: If you have NO warning lights and NO Fault Codes, save your time & money (DON'T order any parts ;-) until you get INPA setup, or something else that can read fault codes in ALL modules.

Good work so far
Don't Blow it by "Fixing Stuff that Ain't Broke"

George
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2011, 328i, bmw, p0335, p1727, transmission malfunction


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