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  #1  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:40 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Intermittent Starting

A few weeks ago neither key fob would start the car. The message was ďkey fob not foundĒ. I changed The batteries in both fobs. No results. Then I get a message to put the fob next to the steering column to start. After fiddling around for awhile the car started. The same thing happened yesterday. I hate not knowing if Iíll be stuck someplace. Any ideas? Please help
Jeff
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:57 AM
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BimmurBrothor BimmurBrothor is offline
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Mein Auto: X3 M54 150k
How old is the existing Battery?
What model BMW?
How many miles currently?
What were the last jobs done?
Have you used a BMW scanner on the car?
Are you the second owner to the car?
Important...Will you get a new fully charged car battery and install it?

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Old 07-31-2020, 11:06 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Mein Auto: 328i. Ats. C6
Original battery
328i xdrive
66k miles
Have not scanned the car but do have a OBD II scanner
1st owner
I will get a new battery if you think thatís the problem

When the starter engages the engine whips rite over. The ignition lights donít com on when the problem exists. Just like thereís no key fob in the area

Thanks for the help
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:10 AM
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BimmurBrothor BimmurBrothor is offline
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Battery older than 4 years best to replace battery .
And you've replaced the fob battery? And you successfully programmed the fob?
You have only one fob?

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Old 07-31-2020, 11:25 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Havenít replaced the car battery. Both keyfob batteries have been replaced but I didnít think reprogramming was necessary sine it starts 90% of the time. It acts as though you left the keyfob in the house and tried to start the car. Totally dead
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Old 07-31-2020, 02:02 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Rose View Post
A few weeks ago neither key fob would start the car. The message was "key fob not found". I changed The batteries in both fobs. No results. Then I get a message to put the fob next to the steering column to start. After fiddling around for awhile the car started. The same thing happened yesterday... I hate not knowing if I'll be stuck someplace. Any ideas? Please help Jeff
Hi Jeff -- Welcome to the Forum!

If the Starter Cranks the engine at the normal RPM, and the engine fires within a second or two of cranking, as NORMAL, then your vehicle battery is NOT the problem.

I'm NOT familiar with Comfort Access, which I assume you have since you are talking about replacing both Fob Batteries. Does your system have the "Insert Compartment" that the NON-CA system uses where the Fob locks into the Insert Compartment (aka Ignition Lock or Ignition Switch), and there is a chip reader in the compartment which verifies the chip and OK's the Starter Activation by the CAS?

In that "Non-CA" system, the battery in the Fob can be TOTALLY discharged, and although the Fob will NOT unlock the doors (remote radio waves NOT generated), the chip in the remote is what the "Insert Compartment" uses to allow Starter Activation. If your vehicle DOES have an Insert Compartment, try putting the Remote Key into the Compartment. If Starter is activated & functions normally when THAT is done, there is a problem with a radio receiver within the vehicle (assuming you can lock/unlock the doors from outside vehicle using the Remote).

Here is the TIS Functional Description of the CA system, and your Owner's Manual also contains information. Mine says to use the Insert Compartment/Ignition Lock if the Remote Battery (or radio reception) fails.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...access/XPJiwrn

If you will let us know what build month/year & chassis you have, we can provide links to correct wiring diagrams for your system.

Please let us know what you find,
George

Last edited by gbalthrop; 07-31-2020 at 02:03 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2020, 02:27 PM
evilzoom evilzoom is offline
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If you had to fiddle with the fob near the steering column to turn the car on then somethings wrong? Unless you need a key to turn your car on then yes you need to make sure that the key fob has the small chip inside the key fob that way your car will turn on. If you insert the key fob in the slot for push to start theirs no reason to fiddle with it near the column. Now it has me wondering that you finally turned the car on and now it won't start. Let me get back to the point when you replaced the battery... Are you sure you soldered the battery correctly? If yes, then the key isn't the issue! If your engine is completely dead meaning won't turn it's more than likely your starter! Reason I'm saying that because you said you were able to turn in on, but now it won't turn on again... The last time you turned it on mustve been your starters last go... Now this would only be a fact until you know the key fob battery was soldered in correct - (-) side and + (+) side...
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2020, 05:04 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Thereís no place to insert the key or fob. Just a small picture of a key. When it starts the engine whips right over, lights and accessories all are fine. When it doesnít start its like you left the fob in the house. Totally dead. No lights or accessories. Therefore Iím fairly sure itís not the
fobs or the car battery. It must be whichever electronic device that receives the signal from the key fob. Any thoughts?
Btw. Thank you for the help
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:25 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Does anyone know where the signal receiver is for the key fob. Pretty sure thatís where the problem is.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:47 AM
MadJoe MadJoe is offline
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Jeff, what year is your car? My E90 with CA has a slot for the key fob to be used "manually" just to the right of the steering column on the dash. Although certainly not impossible, I'd still be very surprised to learn that that's been removed at some point for CA equipped cars.

It should look like this:
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:53 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Mines a 2013 328i xdrive. It has no slot as shown on ur pic. It has a small pic of a key printed on the steering column just to the left of your fob slot. I'll take a pic and post.
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Last edited by Jeff Rose; 08-04-2020 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Mistake. Sorry for the upside down pic.
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:51 AM
MadJoe MadJoe is offline
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Sedan or Coupe/Convertible?
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:06 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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4dr sedan
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:46 AM
MadJoe MadJoe is offline
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All the advice you're getting here is for E90s, and I'm 99% sure you're driving an F30. I don't think there's a huge difference, but you might get better answers in the F30 forums.
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:49 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Rose View Post
Mines a 2013 328i xdrive. It has no slot as shown on ur pic. It has a small pic of a key printed on the steering column just to the left of your fob slot. I'll take a pic and post.
My SWAG would be that if the CA radio wave function of your 2013 Remote Key is NOT working, you should place the remote against the upper steering column where the "arrows" are, over the Key symbol, and the CAS will read the chip inside the Fob. The earlier systems with NON-CA Remotes were capable of reading the chip when the remote was held ~ 1/2" OUTSIDE the Insert Compartment. The (A) chip-reader function is a matter of proximity. The (B) Radio-wave reception SHOULD work with Remote anywhere inside the vehicle. TWO separate functions. If I understand you correctly, "B" quit working, but "A" still works, but you're afraid "A" will quit soon. Probably NOT related but if you'll supply your Last-7 VIN, we'll show you the wiring diagram.

Read your Manual, and if you don't have an Owner's Manual, download it from this site:
https://www.bmwusa.com/owners-manuals.html

If BOTH Fobs worked previously in normal fashion, and now NEITHER can be recognized when inside the car, and BOTH have good batteries, the likelihood is that the interior Antennae/Signal Receivers are NOT functioning as they should (BUT the chip reader still does).

Please furnish the last 7 characters of your VIN and I'll look up the wiring & power supply for your system, OR you can do it yourself using TIS (it takes some practice to learn how to use it ;-)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

George
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:34 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Thanks George. The last 7 numbers on the vin is. NR81190. And I do believe itís an f30
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Old 08-07-2020, 01:53 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
... If I understand you correctly, "B" quit working, but "A" still works, but you're afraid "A" will quit soon. Probably NOT related but if you'll supply your Last-7 VIN, we'll show you the wiring diagram.
Read your Manual, and if you don't have an Owner's Manual, download it from this site:
https://www.bmwusa.com/owners-manuals.html
[Did you find informaton in your Manual?]
If BOTH Fobs worked previously in normal fashion, and now NEITHER can be recognized when inside the car, and BOTH have good batteries, the likelihood is that the interior Antennae/Signal Receivers are NOT functioning as they should (BUT the chip reader still does). Please furnish the last 7 characters of your VIN and I'll look up the wiring & power supply for your system, OR you can do it yourself using TIS (it takes some practice to learn how to use it ;-)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Rose View Post
Thanks George. The last 7 numbers on the vin is. NR81190. And I do believe itís an f30
Yes, TIS indicates NR81190 Last-7 VIN = F30. F30 uses DIFFERENT wiring diagram conventions and Fuse Designation from those used on E9x models with which I'm familiar, but I'll try to suggest tests you can do on system with Multimeter.

Here is TIS wiring diagram for your specific vehicle's "Comfort Access" system:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ess/1VnYHFqRqJ

I don't recall your stating that the Remote Key Buttons would Lock/Unlock the doors, OR if the presence of the Remote Key NEAR the locked door would UNlock it (Comfort Access/CA). Since you did NOT indicate a problem with either of those, I will ASSume that those functions work unless you advise otherwise.

Note from the schematic linked above:
1) There are TWO fuses related to the system, ONE which is "Unswitched" Battery power, F104, 5 Amp, located in the Rear Fuse Carrier, Z2, per this Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...01307/KZAtlulJ

2) The OTHER Fuse is switched by the Bistable Relay, Terminal 30F, F13, 7.5A, Located to right of passenger footwell per this TIS Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...01307/KZMYzxCX

3) There are THREE Antennae inside the vehicle:
a) E84 at the Front of the Console, per this TIS Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...307/1VnXRuOlSS
b) E22 at the Rear of the Console, per this Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...01307/GNlC4qyp
c) B207 "Ring Aerial" which senses the Remote Key chip, on steering column per this:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...01307/GNjaJqZ5

Here is the TIS Functional Description of how the CA system works:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...01307/DgqQTzCF

I would begin by checking the two fuses, and if they are both intact and you're NOT sure what to test next & how, please check back, indicating what diagnostic equipment or tools you have available.

George

Last edited by gbalthrop; 08-07-2020 at 01:56 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:13 AM
Jeff Rose Jeff Rose is offline
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Thanks for all the help George. Both fobs work correctly and Lock/unlock the doors. My problem happens intermittently which leads me to believe itís not a fuse issue. When it acts up thereís no dash lights or ignition. Itís like the fobs are in another zip code. A message then pops up telling me to place the fob near the pic on the steering column. When I place the fob by the pic on the steering column it, so far, started each time after finding the ďsweet spotĒ. This happens about 1 out of 12 starts
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