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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
Discussion of BMW's 4th generation E65/E66 7 Series flagship. The E65 generated much controversy, due to its radical styling and iDrive user difficulties. Nonetheless, the E65 broke records to become the best-selling 7-series iteration ever, especially after its 2005 facelift.

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  #1  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:55 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd share with you the latest project I've undertaken!

Here in the UK the auxiliary heating function was not available for E65 and E66.

All diesel models in the UK have a basic version fitted that only assists in heating the coolant quickly in cold weather. Some people have upgraded this to work as an auxiliary heater.

I have yet to see this retrofitted to a petrol vehicle. The heater itself is manufactured by Webasto and is called the Thermo Top C, there are many variants of this heater, there are two specific E65/E66 versions which are controlled via K-CAN only.

Interestingly some provision for the auxiliary heater is already fitted.



The picture above shows the fuel pump lid on top of the fuel tank. The smaller pipe is the auxiliary heater fuel feed.



The pipe finishes at a moulded nipple under the rear passenger (if RHD) access panel near the wheel arch.

The fuel pump for the Webasto is mounted in this area.

The petrol version is called Thermo Top C Benzin, I found mine from a breakers in Germany.



The mounting bracket was pretty corroded in places, I got it sand blasted at work and will get it painted later this week.





The wiring harness has to be made from scratch, I will post more on that later.

Stuart
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Dan_E65 Dan_E65 is offline
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Looking forward to this.... My 730d already has the Thermotop C - it'd be interesting to see how you'll convert yours with the extra pump and pipe work needed.

Incidentally, I've already coded my iDrive to display the Aux Heating option directly below the Independent Ventilation option - it would be nice to get this fully working.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:27 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Hi Dan_E65, You already have most of the wiring, the fuel pump and basic Webasto (thermo top Z) already fitted, you just need to get the electric circulation pump to convert it to a thermo top C (as shown in the pic above of mine).

You will need to add a changeover valve and change some of the coolant pipes to fully convert it, but your half way there! The Webasto also needs coding using NCS.

I will update on progress as I go, im just busy sourcing the last few bits over the xmas period. The dealer is charging ridiculous prices for some of these parts!

Stuart
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:19 AM
rippjd rippjd is offline
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Stuart, I assume you already have the retrofit PDF from BMW. If not let me know.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:46 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippjd View Post
Stuart, I assume you already have the retrofit PDF from BMW. If not let me know.
Hi Rippjd!

Yes, ironically I stumbled across it the other day after researching the whole thing the hard way!

Just waiting for parts to arrive after Xmas, some parts I have sourced used from Germany and the other bits I'm getting from the dealer.

I will update this thread as I go for those of you that are interested in seeing the pictures and building the wiring loom.

Stuart
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:34 AM
Dan_E65 Dan_E65 is offline
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That PDF would be handy I reckon......
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:39 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Dan,

Go onto google and search "BMW E65 Auxiliary Heater Retrofit" the first hit should come up with what you want, gavandkel.co.uk is hosting it.

For some reason the PDF didnt show up properly on my MacBook, but opened fine in the adobe reader.

Stuart
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Just a quick update, I have populated the 6 way control connector with the K-CAN, fuel pump and changeover valve outputs.



The triple pipe arrived from Germany this week, it's a used part and cost around £30.



The BMW changeover valve is around £130 from the dealer, they are a bit thin on the ground in breakers yards, however I have found an almost identical valve used on the Audi Q7 for their OEM webasto kit.

It is possible to manually switch the webasto on and off using INPA, and also prime the fuel system. I have an OBDII to K-CAN interface so can run the webasto out of the car, It will be useful to test the webasto fully before fitting it to the cooling system.

Stuart
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:23 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Right, just an update, finally got round to fitting the webasto this weekend, took around 9 hours in total, stripping car, fitting parts, custom making the loom on the vehicle, coding etc...

Here are some pics of the pipes that need to be fitted to install the heater.





Mounting bracket



This is the heater fitted into the wheel arch.



I have some more pictures of fitting the fuel line, pump, and exhaust that I can post later if interested.

And finally the unit functioning manually from the climate menu in the idrive.



I also have the remote, it's paired and everything seems to be coded correctly in the IHKA and webasto itself but it fails to start remotely, will investigate in the week.

Stuart
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  #10  
Old 04-10-2013, 02:56 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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UPDATE:

Having been on a bit of a coding spree! I have just sorted the remote start for the Webasto park heater .

The remote paired ok with the car but the heater wouldn't start, just the interior lights would come on for a second or so then go out .

This took a bit of searching to find, due to date changes and VO manipulation I can't just let NCS automatically code original modules with the modified VO to add the park heater (SHZH).

Key is paired with CAS, when remote is activate antenna module receives request, sends it to the CAS, the request is authorised, then sent to the IHKA, the IHKA then checks that the conditions are correct for park heating (less than 12 degrees celsius, fuel tank not on reserve, battery not low. this is requested from the KOMBI and PM respectively) the IHKA then sends the start message to the webasto.

Anyway, car was receiving remote request as the lights were coming on, but I guessed the message wasnt being sent from the CAS to the IHKA, going through the boolean logic structure for the CAS indicated two parameters that are directly related to the STANDHEIZUNG or park heater.

These are:

Code:
FBD_HSF_0                                                                                                                                     
        wert_01                                                                                   
        wert_02                      
        wert_03                        
        wert_04                       
        wert_05                        
        wert_06                        
        wert_07                        
        wert_09                       

FBD_HSF_1                                                                                                   
        wert_01 
        wert_02                       
        wert_03                      
        wert_04                        
        wert_05                        
        wert_06                        
        wert_07                         
        wert_09
My cas was programmed with both at 'wert_09' the conditions for this are:

Code:
CAS_CI_03+!STANDKLIMA+!(STANDHEIZUNG,NACHRUEST_SHZH)+!E67_710S+!FERNSTART
This translates to CAS with CI 03 and NO standklima, and NO park heating OR park heating retrofit, and NOT E67 and NO remote start.

WERT_02 however has the following:

Code:
(STANDHEIZUNG,NACHRUEST_SHZH)+!STANDKLIMA+!(E67+FERNSTART)
This means, Park heating OR retrofit park heating, NO standklima and NOT E67 AND remote start.

I coded wert_02 to both the above paramters and the remote now works!
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  #11  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:03 PM
Hamilton1974 Hamilton1974 is offline
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Great job and very interesting!

Once I get INPA and NCS up and running with my car, mind trying to fault find my webasto and why it won't start on its own?
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:41 AM
Piers1989 Piers1989 is offline
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Hi there Stuart - sorry to resurrect your old thread!

I am considering having this retrofitted to my 745i for this winter.

I wanted to ask you how much the parts cost you, and where you got the extra aux heater key thing from? Did BMW have to add this key to your CAS?

Is the BMW version of the Top C the only one with the CAN support?
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:23 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

Hi,

Yep it's getting that time of year again!

Well in total I spent around ***163;400! It was worth it though! The neighbours faces when your car starts defrosting itself while they are out there with the ice scraper is priceless!

Anyway I have seen recently kits/sets of almost all parts required to fit it for sale on eBay.de. Reasonably priced too.

The remote I had to buy from Germany too, this was never an option in the UK market so all parts have to be sourced abroad in Europe.

You can pair the remote manually yourself it's just holding buttons and inserting the key etc... However you need to code the CAS for the remote option otherwise it won't forward the message via CAN to the IHKA. I think I put the parameter on one of my last posts.

The thermo top C is the model name of the auxiliary heater with the circulation pump. They are not all the same.

The one fitted to the E65 is CAN bus controlled only. Therefore you need to get one from an E65, if you have a diesel you can convert the standard one to a park heater by adding the pump and changeover valve or if you have a petrol like mine you need a BENZIN one, these are all top C versions as they are only used as park heaters.

Mine was originally fitted to a hydrogen 7 and had very little use.

Hope this helps

Stuart


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Old 09-10-2013, 03:48 AM
Piers1989 Piers1989 is offline
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That does help indeed. My car is a 745i.

I was looking at a kit on ebay here: http://www.ebay.de/itm/BMW-E65-E66-7...item19e0a633b5

But it doesn't seem to include the harness plug. Did you buy yours seperatley from that component manufacturer I've seen you refer to in other threads (tyco was it?)?

I understand the electronic side of CAN and how the cars work etc, but can I ask where you tapped into for the CAN lines?

Your text got messed up by the forum, does that say £400?

Hydrogen 7! I have heard of such a thing but didn't think they actually went into production? Must have been quite a rare car!

About the remote - I notice in the CAS coding there is an actual option for Remote Start. Nobody knows how to use this feature once you enable it do they? I tried turning it on and holding down buttons on my standard remote, but to no avail.
I would be happy just starting the car via remote to warm it up and it would be easier than having this fitted!
Like this
or
but those video shows the parking heater remote does it not?

Is it possible that just getting that remote and coding the car for remote start that might work??

Finally, I don't have the mechanical expertise to fit this stuff myself and will have to get an independent garage to do it. Is there anything they might not be able to do / work out themselves mechanically?
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:11 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

Hi, no problem!

Yep that's the kit you need, it's got all the parts. Sorry yeah it's 400 GBP.

The loom I made from scratch on the car to get the routing and lengths perfect, I wrapped it in fabric tape as I went. The hardest part will be making the loom. You can order connectors from TYCO I can post part numbers if required. You will find people selling connector kits online, eBay etc...

Yep that's right it's the same remote I have, that is standklima or park air con so you can cool the car. It's meant to use a different remote that has standklima and standheizung in one. But you can program it to work with the basic standheizung remote I have.

When ambient temp is over 16ish degrees it will just run the blowers to vent out hot air in the summer.

I'd like that feature, I was reading about it on the German 7 forum, requires adding another wire to the CAS from the antenna receiver apparently, may look into it again as its pretty cool! However with my remote I would lose the heating function, that's why I didn't go any further.

The remotes are pretty pricey, I got mine for about 80 GBP.

Oh yeah the CAN, you just need to tap into the K-CAN, I soldered and sleeved the new wires to the CAN wires on the back of the IHKA panel, it was just a convenient place to tap into, in theory it can be connected anywhere on the K-CAN network.

You need to run a constant fused 12V feed from the glovebox, it's F1 position from memory and 20 or 30A you can buy the sockets that fit into the back of the fuse box to add fuse positions. The earth/ground was connected to the comb connector stud behind the passenger headlight.

It's going to be pretty expensive and intense to get a garage to do it for you. You will need the new fuel pipe and fuel pump, wiring and connectors in addition to what's in that eBay listing, it's a lot of messing around but I believe it's 100% worth it!

Stuart


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  #16  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:33 PM
Piers1989 Piers1989 is offline
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Thanks for all the information!

I called up my BMW dealer with the part number for that remote based on some I found on the German ebay (At about the price you said)and they confirmed that it was for the parking heater, they did not mention it could be used for park air con or remote start.

Quote:
I'd like that feature, I was reading about it on the German 7 forum, requires adding another wire to the CAS from the antenna receiver apparently, may look into it again as its pretty cool! However with my remote I would lose the heating function, that's why I didn't go any further.
Do you mean the remote start here? If so do you have any idea where you read about it as I scoured the internet at lunchtime today and couldn't find any information!
This seems like a much easier solution if I could just get the remote, pair it, and use remote start. My car runs on LPG anyway so having it warmed up / consume more fuel warming isn't so much of a concern.

EDIT: I found this - http://translate.google.com/translat...6.html&act=url
And it looks like with adding a single wire and just buying the remote control it is indeed possible!

EDIT2: I bought one of those remotes and hopefully I will get it this week, latest early next week. Then I'm going to have a go at getting remote start working!
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:59 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

That's correct, although its for standklima so will run the aircon. Not sure if you can change that at all? And it may be inhibited under a certain temperature like the webasto only works under 16 degrees from the remote.

Be worth finding out though! I'm now on the lookout for the dual remote as I can't use the one I have for remote start as I have the heater.

Stuart


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Old 09-11-2013, 06:11 AM
Piers1989 Piers1989 is offline
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Cool.

Well I'll keep you updated and post a DIY if it works

Do you know if it is easy to get the to CAS wiring or the best way to approach this?

I know how to take the trim panel off that lets you get the vents and MMI out but I'm not sure if I'll have to remove the CAS itself to get to the harness?

Also I looked up a wiring diagram for the CAS and pin 20 is marked as "not used". Though I guess it probably does have a feature BMW never intended to be used? Something like 5-10 people on that forum have connected CAS pin 20 to antenna amplifier pin 7 and then recoded the car and had this work. I couldn't find out what pin 7 on the antenna amplifier was for though.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:28 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

Cool ok I look forward to it.

Yeah you can just take the IHKA panel out to gain access to the CAS plug.

Stuart


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Old 09-13-2013, 06:51 AM
Piers1989 Piers1989 is offline
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An update:

My new remote arrived today but I'm having trouble pairing it to the car.

I did the Insert key for under 5 seconds, remove, hold Off triple click On release Off. At this point the remote flashes three times exactly (the guide implied it would flash for up to 10 seconds, it only takes about 2-3 seconds to flash 3 times). The car then does not lock / unlock to signal it has worked, and pressing the buttons don't do anything.

I changed my FA in NCS Expert and let it recode the CAS and IHKA to default, note I did not write the new FA into the CAS or LMA, I just changed it on NCS.

I'm guessing the pairing should probably work without coding this though, but at the same time it would also make sense if you can only pair a remote when you have a service that can make use of it!

It is possible from a little googling with part numbers that this remote just doesnt work for an E65. It looks identical but the part number lists it works in the E60, E63, E70, E71, E90. The listing i got it from did say E65 though so if I can't get it working I guess I'll return it.

Any ideas or a better guide on pairing the Aux remote to the car Stuart?
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:33 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

Hi,

Yep the remote will pair without the CAS being coded, does it have a new battery? I would try that first.

Although seeing as you have run a part number check and it's not listed for the E65 that's almost definitely the problem.

Think my part number ends in 814.

I asked the dealer today how much the dual remote is that I need and it's 195GBP!

Will have to keep a lookout for a used one on eBay!

Stuart


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Old 09-13-2013, 08:37 AM
Piers1989 Piers1989 is offline
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I asked the dealer about a remote for my car and they said they were discontinued and there aren't any in the country they can get a hold of. I was told it was £125 I think but thats for the single button one (tho the prices are all listed as the same).

They said they could order the "newer model" replacement remotes the T90 I think they said, but they said they didn't know if it would work with my car and wouldn't be able to find out....

I take it my pairing steps were correct?

Ill try a new battery and if it doesn't work I'll talk to the dealer about options buying one of the new ones from them. If its £120 I can stretch to that so long as if it doesn't work they will take it back.

If you do find a double control one would you be interested in selling your existing one?
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:45 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

Oh right, what dealer were you speaking to? I spoke to wellsway BMW in Bath, asked for pricing and availability, they said 160 odd plus VAT. Didn't mention about it being obsolete, although I don't know if they actually checked that or not.

Yes your pairing was correct, the doors should lock and unlock as described if pairing is successful.

Yes I would be interested in selling, need to find the dual one then pretty quick!

Stuart


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  #24  
Old 09-13-2013, 09:31 AM
Piers1989 Piers1989 is offline
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I called Lloyd BMW in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

They mentioned that the original remote and the second generation were both obsolete but the guy did say he couldn't tell me if the new one would work with my car since my car isnt fitted with anything that would normally have the remote as standard.

Don't feel pushed or rushed to get one yourself!

If you are interested though it might be worth another conversation with the dealer
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:30 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Webasto Auxiliary Heating Retrofit

Thanks, I will get onto it next week and confirm.

Cheers


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