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Old 09-04-2014, 03:34 PM
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Yes I have searched, but I can't find any complete answers. So far, I haven't been able to find any working setup with all 8 channels still working with an aftermarket headunit. Also to add upon that, I want this to be powered by an amp(s) and have found subs the size of the rear deck speakers to maybe replace them? I could build a box the right size, but I doubt it will be much bigger than stock anyway. All of this is pretty important to me because I listen to trap and need a full sound range and bass. Please don't make this an anti-trap thread.
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2014, 03:42 PM
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Not sure what you are looking to do, but there are 10 speakers in out cars, all fed though an amp with crossovers inside.
And not sure on this, but some have mentioned an EQ box, but i have not seen it, or am missing it; i was told it was on the side of the amp.

I have the system working with aftermarket very well, using adapters on the HU.
Also, people have rewired the system with 10 new speakers, new amp with crossovers, added subs in the rear behind the seat in a custom box that makes the trunk more flush with the lid opening.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:46 PM
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Are you sure all e34s have 10? I haven't seen an eq box either.. And I do want a different amp. Earlier searches on multiple forums yielded many idiots saying that you only need the front 6...
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:52 PM
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There are 7 speakers up front, 6 used by the stereo(one is the gong, info alert, backup sensors, and misc car sounds), 4 in the back, need me to list locations and types and size?
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:01 PM
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If it's not much trouble, could you please?
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:11 PM
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I had it typed out from this thread already.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...615&highlight=

One in each front door-2
one under each side of the front dash where the door meets the body-2
one on each side of the top of the dash-2
6 in front
one in each side of the rear deck-2
one tweeter in each side of the rear deck-2
4 in the rear
That =10

And actually there is one more under the dash for the gong sounds, and for the optional phone, and other car computer sounds.


2 tweeters, 2 mids, 2 midbass in the front & 2 tweeters and 2 mids rear.
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:17 PM
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My bad, I thought there was only one pair of speakers in the rear deck and I was wondering where you were getting the extra 2... Anyway the issue is powering all 10 channels and getting the signal to all 10, because as far as I know, head units are only good for 6
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:18 PM
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Most HU have 4 speaker outputs and one sub out.
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:20 PM
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Oh, true...
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:04 PM
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Just in case you want to go full aftermarket

One could get away with roughly a six channel amp and 4 passive filters for the tweeters. Passive filters:

A) Capacitors for tweeters (low cut off/out)
B) Coils for mid/bass/subs (high cut off/out)

Great calculator for those interested in Passive High Pass configuration: LearningAboutElectronics.com

Great calculator and info for Passive Low Pass configuration:
CarStereo.com

Your system is 4 ohm by the way. (for the calculator)

Some will say that passive filtering is not great, I'd agree. It does sacrifice the power used to make those absorbed lower frequency. And over powering a capacitor will cause you to think someone, inside your car, just shot a gun. I had a tweeter cap go once from pushing a few hundred watts through it. The cap was the size of a spent .22 shell, and it sounded like it was spent in my car. That's about 5-10 microfarad cap (8k-4k cut-off), and that's about what you would use if using a single channel to power the dash mid and door tweeter w/ cap, then a channel for the kick panel mid-bass, and a channel to the rear mid and tweeter w/ cap. Now that I think about it, I'd use a 40-60 microfarad cap for the mids too. That should cut off at 800hz - 600hz for the mids. And an inductor coil at the same time to cut the highs off to them. I'd say about .13 mH (milliHenry)

I have done this much with a 6 channel system using 4 signal channels. Y the fronts, in this case, and run rears separate using four-channel and two-channel amps.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:00 PM
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A write up from one of our own.

MDA's Upgrading the E34 Stereo Tutorial highlight

The stock amp with the eq isn't common anymore. My 89 and my 93 535 had them.
It's a little module than connected on the side of the amp.

Truthfully your not missing anything. It still sucked.

Adding to the bible....
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92 BMW 535i...Totalled
89 BMW 535i aka "Zaraki"... Totalled,
90 BMW 325i m60 swap... Sold for a friend,
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap aka "Grau"...Sold,
01 Cosmoschwartz on Dove e38 740i msport... Sold,
01 Titan Silver on Schwartz e38 740i Msport Aka "Lucky Lilly... PROJECT KILLER WHALE
00 Chevy 4wd s10 BLazer LT aka "El Squeeky"... Sold
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Old 09-06-2014, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEinstein View Post
One could get away with roughly a six channel amp and 4 passive filters for the tweeters. Passive filters:

A) Capacitors for tweeters (low cut off/out)
B) Coils for mid/bass/subs (high cut off/out)

Great calculator for those interested in Passive High Pass configuration: LearningAboutElectronics.com

Great calculator and info for Passive Low Pass configuration:
CarStereo.com

Your system is 4 ohm by the way. (for the calculator)

Some will say that passive filtering is not great, I'd agree. It does sacrifice the power used to make those absorbed lower frequency. And over powering a capacitor will cause you to think someone, inside your car, just shot a gun. I had a tweeter cap go once from pushing a few hundred watts through it. The cap was the size of a spent .22 shell, and it sounded like it was spent in my car. That's about 5-10 microfarad cap (8k-4k cut-off), and that's about what you would use if using a single channel to power the dash mid and door tweeter w/ cap, then a channel for the kick panel mid-bass, and a channel to the rear mid and tweeter w/ cap. Now that I think about it, I'd use a 40-60 microfarad cap for the mids too. That should cut off at 800hz - 600hz for the mids. And an inductor coil at the same time to cut the highs off to them. I'd say about .13 mH (milliHenry)

I have done this much with a 6 channel system using 4 signal channels. Y the fronts, in this case, and run rears separate using four-channel and two-channel amps.
So you're saying running 6 off an amp, and 4 off of the headunit... sorry it took me so long to get back, I was in Portland...
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:12 PM
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:03 AM
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What I was attempting to share was the ability to get away with using passive crossover tech to alleviate 4 needed, otherwise separate, channels.

I personally think the factory amp is quite capable for my needs. But if I were gonna fully swap everything, my first stop would probably be as described with 4 amplified channels using passive for the 4 tweeters and 4 mids, then 2 channels for the 2 mid-base. While you could use the head unit amp for 4 channels, I wouldn't recommend it. The passive crossover use burns power as I said, so you can easily overdrive your head unit. If you're going to, and consider this minimal use IMHO, power a mid and tweeter using passive capacitors and inductors, use >100w per amplified channel. Most head units MAY have 50w/channel, so you would definitely be heating that radio up.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:08 PM
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Well, headunits were made for use, and I won't be maxing out the volume, so I think it will do. As for passive crossovers, they way you are explaining it, it goes in one eye out the other, could you dumb it down? I do understand amps, sub boxes, etc but never bothered with crossovers.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:57 PM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoo View Post
Well, headunits were made for use, and I won't be maxing out the volume, so I think it will do. As for passive crossovers, they way you are explaining it, it goes in one eye out the other, could you dumb it down? I do understand amps, sub boxes, etc but never bothered with crossovers.

MDA's Upgrading the E34 Stereo Tutorial highlight

If that's still foreign to you I'll make it simple.

1. What's your budget? Very important. I could model a standard system after mine, but it wasn't cheap. So planning out your stereo system vs your budget is key.

2. How many watts rms are you looking to push? This isn't about bass it's about the overall draw on your system. 300watt max is a typical norm. Anything over that you'll need a farad capacitor.

3. The stereo system itself. Unless I read wrong (which I've done in the past) you already have a aftermarket HU.
Cool. I'm going to use this to detail a basic system.

The average system in our cars are 10 speakers if split into 4 channels is:
front left
front right
rear left
rear right

The stock amp has a crossover to split the signals for each speaker within each channel.
This spliting is done in basic terms of:
hi
mid range
woofer

That said for each channel in the front field (front of the car) you have:
Hi
mid
low or woofer.

The rear is similar but are essentially:
Hi
Low or woofer.

This is where you get the 10 speakers from.

now to mimic this using an aftermarket amp, you'll have to use a crossover(s), or a component speaker setup with crossovers.
The crossovers already have the signals split usually Tweeter or hi, Low or woofer.

All of which you assign to the proper speaker.

All said let me give you an idea of how this works

4 channel amp 300 watts rms = 75 watts per channel.

Let's say for arguement sake you just bought the crossovers and kept the original speakers.

4 crossovers = one crossover per channel

Now go over your layout

The front crossovers will handle 3 speakers each: (well use a code so you can follow)
door tweeter = DT
dash = D
kick panel =K

unfortunately the dash speaker is not truely a speaker persay.
It's more like a mid tweet.
That said on one front crossover:

Hi frequency (signal) = DT & D
Low frequency (signal) = K

In the rear it's a no brainer because theres only 2 speakers per channel ( tweeter and woofer)

So you connect those hi and low.

Now what else depends on your HU. If you have 3 sets of rca patches you can eliminate the speaker wiring to the HU.
Just use 2 sets of RCAs cables. (one set for front and one for rear)

Run them back to the amp and your golden.
If you have a third set of rca patches on the HU that's you sub signal.
Again run it to a sub amp and your golden.

If not or if you only have one rca patch you have to rewire the car for sound using the existing wires.
The schmatics are in the bible. For that one rca patch will be for subs.

This is basically my setup but the items involved are much different.
Once you got your setup together you have to tune it.
That unfortunately you'll have to search.
I did mine via experience with a multimeter.


I wentor clarity. I can hear the guitar transitions f any eric clapton, jimi hendrix, muddy water song,
and thump out enough bass from a R&B, Rock, Hip hop song to please me.

Good luck

Also to give you an idea of what I mean by tuning. You can put a 10 watt tweeter on a 1000 watt amp... but you have to tune it to do so.
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86 BMW 325es...Sold,
92 BMW 535i...Totalled
89 BMW 535i aka "Zaraki"... Totalled,
90 BMW 325i m60 swap... Sold for a friend,
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap aka "Grau"...Sold,
01 Cosmoschwartz on Dove e38 740i msport... Sold,
01 Titan Silver on Schwartz e38 740i Msport Aka "Lucky Lilly... PROJECT KILLER WHALE
00 Chevy 4wd s10 BLazer LT aka "El Squeeky"... Sold
03 E53 x5 4.6is...Daily

Last edited by MySatinDoll; 09-08-2014 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 09-08-2014, 11:11 PM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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hell i will take pics to better detail what im talking about
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86 BMW 325es...Sold,
92 BMW 535i...Totalled
89 BMW 535i aka "Zaraki"... Totalled,
90 BMW 325i m60 swap... Sold for a friend,
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap aka "Grau"...Sold,
01 Cosmoschwartz on Dove e38 740i msport... Sold,
01 Titan Silver on Schwartz e38 740i Msport Aka "Lucky Lilly... PROJECT KILLER WHALE
00 Chevy 4wd s10 BLazer LT aka "El Squeeky"... Sold
03 E53 x5 4.6is...Daily
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2014, 09:41 AM
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TheEinstein TheEinstein is offline
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MSD's layout is great advice. If you were wondering what I was talking about regarding passive crossover components, I only meant to say it can be done cheaply. I think what MSD was pointing at was the component speaker system in the audio department. The system with 2 or 3-way speakers with their matched "tuned" 2 or 3-way "passive" crossover boxes included. I am 100% with MSD in support of that setup. They are the kind of setup you would get, put speakers in appropriate location, find wire diagram for amp, patch amp output wires to the new crossovers, and feed the crossover with a single channel effectively powering the speakers for that component system.

Back to my suggestion which really was only meant to keep existing speakers, replace head unit, replace amp.

First, resistance (ohms) will be key.
I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure the factory speakers are all 4 ohm. If I've lost you with the ohms talk, stop reading now. Otherwise for the remainder of this we are assuming 4 ohms per speaker.

Second, capacitors and inductors. Again, if you have to look those up, no offense but get a pre-set and "tuned" component speaker system. Otherwise, know that in line or series, with a capacitor, and speaker from the amp you can essentially filter out the lows. With an inductor (coil) in series with a speaker from the amp you can filter out the highs. So as you can imagine, a mid range would use both a capacitor and a coil hooked up in series to clip the highs and the lows. Anything more specific than this, and you will truely need to self educate. There are so many configurations for these crossover "networks" that I could go full nerd for days. They can be much cleaner sounding, and they can be much more complicated to be sure you keep resistance right. Try to think of ohms as the pressure of your water in a hose. Then see the water main, probably several inches in diameter, as your amp. One nozzle on the hose and pressure is fine. Two, three nozzles, and the pressure can't clean the mud off. The problem goes back to the source for this illustration, in our case the amp. When the pressure drops there, it causes it to over drive itself. Resulting in a melted amp.. If your lucky, not a fire. It would depend on the amp. If it's 0-2ohm stable, it should be good for a simple setup as long as you only do 2 speakers to a channel.


If you're still with me here are some examples:





If this seems at all foreign, or keeping your ohms correct leaves you unsure, get a component set with matched crossover module.
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:07 PM
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You didn't loose me Einstein, although this is a daunting task, I could probably figure it out. No I don't already have an aftermarket hu, but the stock one is messed up, so I WILL get one. I was just wondering how to get 10 channels. It seems you guys are suggesting that I bridge the highs and mids in their respective groups?
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:21 PM
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Now that we are on the subject. My front passenger speakers dont work. Any ideas why? Im a moron most of the time when it comes to sound systems. I just put in a CD player and thought maybe a loose wire was the problem but they are all connected properly from the stereo.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:28 AM
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Now that we are on the subject. My front passenger speakers dont work. Any ideas why? Im a moron most of the time when it comes to sound systems. I just put in a CD player and thought maybe a loose wire was the problem but they are all connected properly from the stereo.
All of them (all 3) or one or two? Hit up the electrical schematic, for the amplifier pin-outs. While your at it, the head unit connection. Ohm check your speakers. If open where should be (I'd expect 4-8 ohms potentially), check the speaker individually. Note that resistance checking out, may not indicate a blown speaker. But you will definitely know wiring is ok, if it's open and you check with speaker removed and wire terminals shorted together. If visual and mechanical inspection of speaker(s) check out, and the wires check out it's time to check the source. Determine pin out on head unit, and use short jumper wire feed another channel + to the front right positive. Since it shares ground, and 3 other channels work, this should be all that is required. Still no audio, will need to check wiring to amp. Pull harness connector out of radio, using known pin-outs, short the same two + pins you tested a minute ago. Test continuity at the amp pins. If that checks out, you have successfully narrowed down needing a 10-channel amp, or 6 if doing above.

My expectation, your mid and/or tweeter speaker(s) are done.
Second most likely IMO, bad channel from head unit, could even be volume potentiometer.
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Last edited by TheEinstein; 09-10-2014 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Schematic find re-write..
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:58 PM
TexHun TexHun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEinstein View Post
All of them (all 3) or one or two? Hit up the electrical schematic, for the amplifier pin-outs. While your at it, the head unit connection. Ohm check your speakers. If open where should be (I'd expect 4-8 ohms potentially), check the speaker individually. Note that resistance checking out, may not indicate a blown speaker. But you will definitely know wiring is ok, if it's open and you check with speaker removed and wire terminals shorted together. If visual and mechanical inspection of speaker(s) check out, and the wires check out it's time to check the source. Determine pin out on head unit, and use short jumper wire feed another channel + to the front right positive. Since it shares ground, and 3 other channels work, this should be all that is required. Still no audio, will need to check wiring to amp. Pull harness connector out of radio, using known pin-outs, short the same two + pins you tested a minute ago. Test continuity at the amp pins. If that checks out, you have successfully narrowed down needing a 10-channel amp, or 6 if doing above.

My expectation, your mid and/or tweeter speaker(s) are done.
Second most likely IMO, bad channel from head unit, could even be volume potentiometer.
Its all 3 that are dead. I plugged in a different tweeter to see if maybe the speaker was blown but that one didnt work either. Im guessing its a connection problem with the amp. And it was also doing this with the factory stereo.
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2014, 09:31 AM
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Maybe I'm not clear, what is your current equipment, or expected equipment?
Factory or aftermarket head unit?
Factory amp, aftermarket or using head unit?
Factory speakers or aftermarket?

I'll tell you right now, as I basically eluded to, you will not want to passive network three speakers from an aftermarket head unit. Just want to clarify that, you WILL burn it out. Unless you never turn a radio up past 1/4 to 1/2.
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My Basic Repair History (Edited 1/27/2015)

Ongoing comparison between two E34 540ia's

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  #24  
Old 09-11-2014, 03:35 PM
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MeNoo MeNoo is offline
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Location: Rochester, WA
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Mein Auto: 1990 BMW E34 525i
Current equipment is all stock. As in factory hu, factory amp, factory speakers. I do have 2 different brand name 4 channel amps. My plan is to install aftermarket hu, aftermarket amp(s), factory speakers exept for rear deck mids replaced with subs (if it doesn't sound right I'll try to build little boxes) that is all. I hope this clears up any miscommunication, and appreciate your help.
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  #25  
Old 09-11-2014, 04:38 PM
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E34ZombieHunter E34ZombieHunter is offline
Nothin like an E34
Location: Lillington NC
 
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Mein Auto: 95 540i B/B
I hope you run new wires for this if you do go that route.
Also not sure if this was mentioned, 95's have a different amp, better quality and cross-overs, so ours do sound much better.


This will be another good thread for my siggy since this gets asked a lot, and seems the first time it caught on with great info.
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