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Old 05-01-2016, 02:29 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Dislodged turbo air intake cause of DPF problems?

Hi, 2007 3.0d X5 with 121,500km.

I've had a forced regen on the DPF twice in the last 6 months. Recently changed to an indy BMW mechanic I'm more confident with. Even though the right oil looked like it had been going in previously (based on receipts - low soot... SynPower MST 5W30W) I wanted to switch and be 100% sure on that. (So now its 'BMW long life Diesel Engine Oil' with the plan to change it every 6 months).

Anyway - the car is currently showing no errors or warnings about the DPF, and is not using any oil. At least - not enough to require topping up between services. As part of the last oil change though, the intake manifold was cleaned & the mechanic noted the air intake hose on the turbo was off. He noted a small amount of oil inside that hose, and was a bit concerned about the presence of that oil, and the longevity of the Turbo. But for now, the hose has been cleaned of oil and reattached. So far, so good.

Questions:

1) Could a dislodged air intake hose on the turbo have been the cause all along of previous 'DPF blocked' warnings? We do a decent amount of highway driving - certainly enough to get the engine to the self cleaning DPF cycle. The DPF has had 2 x forced regens completed successfully previously, but now I'm thinking if that air intake hose has been off (but missed) previously, maybe that was the cause of the DPF problems all along.

2) Does the presence of a small amount of oil within that hose sound like an impending problem with the turbo itself? I've read a small amount of oil in there is common/normal in other diesels due to oil vapour in the system - but wasn't sure about BMWs.

3) If there is a small amount of oil in that turbo air intake hose, I'm concerned about it being slippery and dislodging itself again. Are they not clamped on? And silly question - where is it? I'd like to periodically check it if I can without going back to the mechanic.

4) I was sure I saw one of those official BMW service documents all about the DPF and regen steps linked to from somewhere for my model. Anyone got a link to that?

As I said, I'm more confident with this mechanic - but thought I'd ask you all as there's obviously a lot of group knowledge here

Last edited by AU Pete; 05-01-2016 at 02:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2016, 03:01 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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How often you drive on HWY and do you drive it slow or you like to hit it hard?
BMW's do not like slow driving as well as only city commute.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:05 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
How often you drive on HWY and do you drive it slow or you like to hit it hard?
I'd say 1 weekend in every 4 it gets a 300km highway run. It's not driven hard in the city, but on the highway it gets its 'legs stretched' lets say - for the whole time

Last edited by AU Pete; 05-01-2016 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:08 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c41 View Post
I'd say 1 weekend every 4 it gets a 300km highway run. It's not driven hard in the city, but on the highway it gets its 'legs stretched' lets say - for the whole time
You could try with Low-SAPS oils that meet VW 504.00/507.00 spec. together with BMW-L04.
I use Mobil1 5W30 ESP because it has lowest SAPS level of all oils I found on the market. That should help with DPF. Also, how is your thermostat? If thermostat is faulty it will not trigger regen. on its own.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:12 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Thanks for oil notes.

Quote:
Also, how is your thermostat? If thermostat is faulty it will not trigger regen. on its own.
No problems as far as I know - but i'd imagine it was checked as DPF sensors were checked as part of previous regen. I'll make sure I query it at next service or if DPF problem reoccurs. I don't have one of these ios apps that can hook up to your computer to get more info. I'm a little scared of messing something up maybe I should look into one...

Last edited by AU Pete; 05-01-2016 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:20 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c41 View Post
Thanks for oil notes.



No problems as far as I know - but i'd imagine it was checked as DPF sensors were checked as part of previous regen. but will query at next service or if DPF problem reoccurs. I don't have one of these ios apps that can hook up to your computer to get more info. I'm a little scared of messing something up maybe I should look into one...
You do not need app for that:



If temperature styes below 75, and cannot go over, then it will not trigger regen.
Also, when you drive on hwy, if no hills, downshift manually to 4th gear, and keep rpms above 3K. Drive like that for some time and it should trigger regen.
Also, if you turn on temperature monitoring while driving,when regen starts, temperature should jump between 90-93c. I go to ski twice a week, there is incline of 7% for 6 miles, I always hit that at speeds oh 120-130kmh, in 4th or 5th gear, and ALWAYS trigger regen.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:37 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
You do not need app for that:
Ah nice! Thanks - will check that out. Will test that out. And looks like I have some reading to do. I saw this sticky thread with all the service PDF's:
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=781415
So I'll start digging for the one that talks specifically about the DPF... happen to have a direct link?
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:58 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c41 View Post
Ah nice! Thanks - will check that out. Will test that out. And looks like I have some reading to do. I saw this sticky thread with all the service PDF's:
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=781415
So I'll start digging for the one that talks specifically about the DPF... happen to have a direct link?
Sorry, no direct link, but for sure there is a lot of discussion about that.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:31 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Thanks.

And if anyone has any thoughts on the plausibility of that original question (dislodged turbo hose ultimately causing DPF warning) - be interested to hear any thoughts
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:39 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c41 View Post
Thanks.

And if anyone has any thoughts on the plausibility of that original question (dislodged turbo hose ultimately causing DPF warning) - be interested to hear any thoughts
It could be connected if turbo cannot provide enough pressure.
As of oil in line, I would say it is oil, not turbo. Those turbos are known to last LONG time. Make sure you clamp that hose properly and that everything is tighten.
Yesterday I was changing oil, filter, AC filters and air filter. I think BMW recommendation to change air filter every 20k miles or 32,000km is too long, based on the state of air filter I and after 16k miles. I would be proactive there and change it every 15k km. When you do that you can check all hoses.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:43 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Also, oil in turbo line. I know that it could be because of high NOACK percentage of oil (High NOACK means high evaporation loss). Valvoline is typical HC oil, and those oils need large amount of additives to keep NOACK around 10% which is maximum for MB 229.5 and 229.51 (lower SAPS-diesel) spec. I use M1 5W30 ESP because it has ridiculously low NOACK of 5.6%. I know GTL based oils (Shell) also proved very good in that respect (they also pack oil now for BMW).
Also, it seems that Pentosin Superperformance III 5W30 proved in that respect really good.
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Old 05-02-2016, 04:35 AM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
If temperature styes below 75, and cannot go over, then it will not trigger regen.
Hmmm - interesting. So thanks to your tip re hidden menu, I found the engine temp reading tonight and went for a drive for an hour (outside temp about 18 degrees celsius - brisk, but not that cold.)

I couldn't get the engine temp above 79 degrees for the duration. And I'd say it averaged around 74.

Cruising around town, around 60-70km/h it ranged from 72-78 degrees.
On a slightly longer stretch where I could cruise at 95km/h for a few minutes, the temp actually dropped to 70-71 degrees - due to the extra air intake I'm assuming. Even trying in sport mode and holding 4th gear at just under 3,000 rpm didnt see the temp rise above 72. I seemed to get higher temps of 78-79 if I chose gear 5 or 6 on a long hill where the engine was working harder - which makes sense.

So do those numbers indicate a thermostat problem - or should I really be hitting a proper highway for an extended period before I draw a conclusion? (due for a highway run on Friday - so can report back).

Last edited by AU Pete; 05-02-2016 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 05-02-2016, 05:38 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c41 View Post
Hmmm - interesting. So thanks to your tip re hidden menu, I found the engine temp reading tonight and went for a drive for an hour (outside temp about 18 degrees celsius - brisk, but not that cold.)

I couldn't get the engine temp above 79 degrees for the duration. And I'd say it averaged around 74.

Cruising around town, around 60-70km/h it ranged from 72-78 degrees.
On a slightly longer stretch where I could cruise at 95km/h for a few minutes, the temp actually dropped to 70-71 degrees - due to the extra air intake I'm assuming. Even trying in sport mode and holding 4th gear at just under 3,000 rpm didnt see the temp rise above 72. I seemed to get higher temps of 78-79 if I chose gear 5 or 6 on a long hill where the engine was working harder - which makes sense.

So do those numbers indicate a thermostat problem - or should I really be hitting a proper highway for an extended period before I draw a conclusion? (due for a highway run on Friday - so can report back).
Yeah, you are having all signs of failing thermostat.
There are numerous topics about thermostat here and on other forums.
I think I have failing thermostat too, but not as bad, since I manage to hit 85-86c in weather like that, and around 82 i weather below 0c.
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Old 05-02-2016, 04:05 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Yeah, you are having all signs of failing thermostat.
Ok, will ask the mechanic today about the temps given & replacing it.
DIY replacement is an option, but I searched a bunch of threads and watched some videos but because all I could find were slightly different engines (I have a 2007 3.0d M57D30O2 173kw), I don't think I'd be brave enough to attempt a DIY. some of the steps look pretty involved with torque wrenches etc. could be beyond me if i got stuck...
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:33 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
Ok, will ask the mechanic today about the temps given & replacing it.
DIY replacement is an option, but I searched a bunch of threads and watched some videos but because all I could find were slightly different engines (I have a 2007 3.0d M57D30O2 173kw), I don't think I'd be brave enough to attempt a DIY. some of the steps look pretty involved with torque wrenches etc. could be beyond me if i got stuck...
The EGR cooler is above, you have to be careful and patient.
Thermostat temperature is 88c.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:09 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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OK, had my main thermostat replaced. No change. Coolant temp does eventually get up to high 80's around town with lots of start/stop traffic, but drops to low 70's as soon as you get up to highway cruising speeds.
Which leads me to the EGR thermostat. That looks like something I can change myself though so am looking into that next. Should have just told the mechanic to do it at the same time but I had not read enough of these threads!

When fitting an EGR thermostat to a X5 e70 3.0d - what is the process for bleeding the cooling system at the time of fitting?

Someone jump in and tell me if the next logical step is NOT the EGR thermostat

Last edited by AU Pete; 05-04-2016 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:22 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
OK, had my main thermostat replaced. No change. Coolant temp does eventually get up to high 80's around town with lots of start/stop traffic, but drops to low 70's as soon as you get up to highway cruising speeds.
Which leads me to the EGR thermostat. That looks like something I can change myself though so am looking into that next. Should have just told the mechanic to do it at the same time but I had not read enough of these threads!

When fitting an EGR thermostat to a X5 e70 3.0d - what is the process for bleeding the cooling system at the time of fitting?

Someone jump in and tell me if the next logical step is NOT the EGR thermostat
Have you tried to take the car out and push it in 4th gear above 3K rpm to trigger regeneration?
I would give it a run on open road, preferably uphill, in 3rd-4th gear, push hard, and it should start regeneration.
I was driving on Monday to ski, again did it at same spot as alway. hard on pedal and 3-4-5th gear, a lot of manual upshift and downshift, did regen as usual.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:30 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Have you tried to take the car out and push it in 4th gear above 3K rpm to trigger regeneration?
I have - but only over about 3km. The temp happily dropped down to around 71 (from 77-78 in traffic) and sat there. 4th gear at 3400rpm.
I realise that's not a long enough test though - am hitting the highway for an extended period in next few days - so will report back.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:41 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
I have - but only over about 3km. The temp happily dropped down to around 71 (from 77-78 in traffic) and sat there. 4th gear at 3400rpm.
I realise that's not a long enough test though - am hitting the highway for an extended period in next few days - so will report back.
hmmm, that is strange. My temp will drop below 75 only if I downshift and slowing down, not touching pedal. Maybe culprit is in EGR thermostat. Not sure whether you have to remove EGR, but be careful how you put back EGR cooler as there is potential to crack after taking out, putting back and then driving. There is a lot of info here on that.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:47 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Not sure whether you have to remove EGR, but be careful how you put back EGR cooler as there is potential to crack after taking out
Will do. I wont know till i take the engine cover off, but it looks like a very simple part that can be swapped without removing the EGR cooler in this case.

Its part #8 here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...97#11717787870

which correlates to this video and looks pretty simple to do:
(famous last words
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:52 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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That looks simple!
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:27 AM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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I replaced the EGR thermostat tonight and it was indeed the problem. You could blow through the thing - so it was stuck open. Limited testing so far, but the coolant temp is now stable between 91-94 driving in traffic, and at highway speeds, as opposed to mid-high 70's in traffic, and low 70's at highway speeds previously. More testing including extended highway km's in next few days so will report back.

In summary, I had my mechanic change the main thermostat (which I'm happy I had done) but it doesn't look like it was at fault. Replacing the EGR thermostat fixed the low coolant temp for me - and hopefully this obviously will greatly improve my chances of avoiding the repeating blocked DPF problems we were having, as the temps are now high enough for it to trigger a regen as needed.

I did have a few concerns when topping up the coolant - but I'll post that in a new thread over here

Thanks to you edycol and everyone else contributing to these threads! beers on me if you make your way to Sydney

Last edited by AU Pete; 05-05-2016 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:42 AM
smassey321 smassey321 is offline
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I don't see any mention of codes. Some codes don't set off a warning light but will prevent the regen.
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Old 05-05-2016, 12:41 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Originally Posted by smassey321 View Post
I don't see any mention of codes. Some codes don't set off a warning light but will prevent the regen.
The local BMW mechanic cleared the codes each time as part of the forced regens (i know of at least the one warning/code that was appearing) - and gave the all clear that it's ready to regen itself now. so I can only hope that's the case. is there anything else I can do to ensure its readiness to regenerate status without one of those nifty OBD adapters + an app?
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:04 AM
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serge1 serge1 is offline
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Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
Hi, 2007 3.0d X5 with 121,500km.
2) Does the presence of a small amount of oil within that hose sound like an impending problem with the turbo itself? I've read a small amount of oil in there is common/normal in other diesels due to oil vapour in the system - but wasn't sure about BMWs.
That pool of oil in front of turbo blades gets there from Crank Case Ventilation. If you look at air intake, you will see a small tube join air intake hose.

As vehicle ages, more gas and oil slips past piston rings. From crank case, the oil/gas mist is sucked through turbo (some pools at the bottom of intake pipe), through intercooler, through Throttle Body valve, gets nicely baked by hot ERG gases and ends up a thick crust inside intake manifold.
Carbon buildup.

In my case, at 95K miles, the crank case hose that was supposed to carry gas got damaged by oil and leaked all over passenger side of engine bay.
Upon disassembly, I observed oil in intake pipe, inside intercooler, damaged Throttle Body (had code), crusted intake manifold, etc.
Documented here

ProVent is a well-proven CCV gas/oil separator that can be installed FYI. There's DIY thread .
I have installed it and it seems to keep things dry. Oil from crank case is returned back to sump. Gases into intake.

Last edited by serge1; 01-31-2017 at 12:06 AM.
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