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  #1  
Old 06-09-2016, 11:38 AM
raymonddouglas1 raymonddouglas1 is offline
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X5 35d nox sensors

dealer says nox sensors both need to replaced b/c, the engine has turned off reading "incorrect diesel exhaust fluid." Have only had the car for 8,000 miles and no issues until reading low exhaust fluid and took to dealer and topped off for free. 5 miles from leaving dealer got the "incorrect" message. Took back to the dealer and, they said it was close for an oil change and, they would drain refill the exhaust fluid tanks and lights would go off. That didn't work. They then said that the "incorrect" error would go away and, the car would not shut off. Car wouldn't start after the 200 mile mark 3 days later!

Now they are saying needs both nox sensors for $1,800. IF that doesn't work then catalytic converter was next for another $5,300. Car has 83,000 miles so NO warranty on the converter.

Any advice would help. Have called 6 indys in the OKC area and none will touch the system. Very telling.


Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 06-09-2016, 11:50 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Ugg. I'm no help. There is a diesel subforum here that may be more informative. Best wishes.
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Old 06-09-2016, 12:02 PM
raymonddouglas1 raymonddouglas1 is offline
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Thanks for the help. I will post there as well.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:07 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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There are quite a few posts on Nox replacement. I have a P20EE CEL.

What's the code of the error?
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  #5  
Old 06-09-2016, 01:51 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Dealer knows! (Like Heaven knows.). Dealer is throwing customer's money at it.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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Old 06-09-2016, 02:20 PM
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serge1 serge1 is offline
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Search for "incorrect diesel fluid" - plenty of threads that will give a good idea.
The message you are getting has little to do with sensors. I believe it has to do with DEF quality sensor going bad (crystallizing perhaps).

I would suggest you stop talking to the dealer. They are are just like most BMW dealers - throwing parts at the problem. At your expense.

By the way, on the sensors topic, there is a "pre" and "post" NoX sensor. Pre costs $250, post costs $1500. But get this - they are exactly the same!
Just this week there was a post form a guy who got it replaced and calibrated.
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  #7  
Old 06-21-2016, 10:29 AM
raymonddouglas1 raymonddouglas1 is offline
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X5 35d NOx Sensors

I wanted to follow up and see if anyone was able to offer advise. The BMW dealer was able to give me codes. Hopefully someone has had the same issue and it was an easy fix.

Fault Code
0041F9 SCR system: System error and poor urea/water mixture quality detected
0046F2 DDE: DeNox system, function
00474C SCR system, warning and deactivation scenario: Warning level 1
004748 SCR system, warning and deactivation scenario: Warning stage 2
004746 SCR system, warning and deactviation scenario: Warning state 3 (maximum range reached)
004D16 4D16 SCR system, efficiency
004D08 SCR system, warning and deactivation scenario, Warning stage (maximu, range reached, no engine start possible)

The car is at the dealer sitting in their lot. They use the one time life restart. Since they are saying that we have to replace both of the NOx sensors because "they always do it like that", we have lost any faith in them. Thanks for your suggestions.

Last edited by raymonddouglas1; 06-21-2016 at 10:32 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2016, 12:22 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Good video on the diesel emission system. Knowledge is good so the dealer doesn't sell you BS.



I didn't have these codes but now that you have posted, someone will chime in. Also, search the forum with the codes you mentioned so begin with.

Dealers like to start with throwing expensive parts at the problem they themselves are not clear about. So, it's always good to know what are the codes and then take help from this forum.
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  #9  
Old 06-21-2016, 12:25 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymonddouglas1 View Post
I wanted to follow up and see if anyone was able to offer advise. The BMW dealer was able to give me codes. Hopefully someone has had the same issue and it was an easy fix.

Fault Code
0041F9 SCR system: System error and poor urea/water mixture quality detected
0046F2 DDE: DeNox system, function
00474C SCR system, warning and deactivation scenario: Warning level 1
004748 SCR system, warning and deactivation scenario: Warning stage 2
004746 SCR system, warning and deactviation scenario: Warning state 3 (maximum range reached)
004D16 4D16 SCR system, efficiency
004D08 SCR system, warning and deactivation scenario, Warning stage (maximu, range reached, no engine start possible)

The car is at the dealer sitting in their lot. They use the one time life restart. Since they are saying that we have to replace both of the NOx sensors because "they always do it like that", we have lost any faith in them. Thanks for your suggestions.
Have you tried adding DEF?

Here't he thread where I brought up my CEL issue: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=917662.

Last edited by smuggymba; 06-21-2016 at 12:26 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-21-2016, 12:38 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Good video on the diesel emission system. Knowledge is good so the dealer doesn't sell you BS.
Or our ex-spurts here give it out for free. I paid careful attention and heard no mention of "degradation" "aging" or "use by," but I did hear the word stable.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2016, 12:47 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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I'm no expert like other people but I would start by adding DEF (I bought Valvoline from Napa which is ISO 22241) and driving for a while. Also go through the thread link I gave.
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2016, 12:54 PM
raymonddouglas1 raymonddouglas1 is offline
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We first got the warning stating we needed the DEF and took it to the dealer. They added the fluid and about 20 miles later, a message came up stating that the wrong fluid was added and it would cut off in 200 miles. We took it back to the dealer and they said that they only have one type of fluid and that the message would go away. Well that didn't exactly happen. The car hit the 200 miles and then would not start. Had it towed to the dealer and that is where we are. May have towed to another shop but so worried about having to guess if it's the NOx sensors and if that doesn't work, having to replace the cadellic converter. Sounds pretty expensive. Thanks so much for your help.
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2016, 01:03 PM
raymonddouglas1 raymonddouglas1 is offline
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Thank you~
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2016, 01:58 PM
Chineywhale Chineywhale is offline
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I would not pay $1,800 until they can show you a code that indicates one of the NOx sensors are malfunctioning. I got the error code for the precat NOx sensor and they wanted me to change both b/c that's how its always done and the post cat sensor is never too far behind. I also had the 4D16 error. I bought a precat NOx sensor for $240 (the old part number, bmw later changed the part number and increased the price to nearly $600 for the same part smh). I had another dealer replace the precat sensor. Over 10K later and CEL is still off. Most of your errors are associated with poor quality DEF fluid and the warnings provided during the miles to shut off warnings. I'd see if I could get the DEF system flushed and put in new fluid. From what I heard, the DEF fluid expires after about 6 months. The dealer probably put DEF fluid in your car that was sitting on the shelf forever. It's not hard to imagine a dealer ordering DEF fluid in bulk and, b/c of the lower number of diesels on the road, it just sat in their inventory for months. Do not let them force you to buy new sensors and there is no error code for it.
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Old 06-21-2016, 02:03 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Do we have a pass the smilie, please? LOL, no wonder, it is COLON SPACE popcorn COLON
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 06-21-2016 at 02:06 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:40 AM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chineywhale View Post
I would not pay $1,800 until they can show you a code that indicates one of the NOx sensors are malfunctioning. I got the error code for the precat NOx sensor and they wanted me to change both b/c that's how its always done and the post cat sensor is never too far behind. I also had the 4D16 error. I bought a precat NOx sensor for $240 (the old part number, bmw later changed the part number and increased the price to nearly $600 for the same part smh). I had another dealer replace the precat sensor. Over 10K later and CEL is still off. Most of your errors are associated with poor quality DEF fluid and the warnings provided during the miles to shut off warnings. I'd see if I could get the DEF system flushed and put in new fluid. From what I heard, the DEF fluid expires after about 6 months. The dealer probably put DEF fluid in your car that was sitting on the shelf forever. It's not hard to imagine a dealer ordering DEF fluid in bulk and, b/c of the lower number of diesels on the road, it just sat in their inventory for months. Do not let them force you to buy new sensors and there is no error code for it.
Any idea how to flush the DEF tank? Any siphon pump would do or is there a forum approved one I need to get? My CEL was off for 80 miles and it back on this morning
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  #17  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:49 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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The X5 diesel has extraction port drains for the active and passive tanks.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #18  
Old 06-22-2016, 08:13 AM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Doug - Can you see if this is right/latest one?

Why the heck all these car manufacturers don't put color pics in manuals. Crazy.
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  #19  
Old 06-22-2016, 08:39 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Doug - Can you see if this is right/latest one? Why the heck all these car manufacturers don't put color pics in manuals. Crazy.
It appears to be the same as the only one that I know of.

I would be happy with a timely manual of any sort, even entirely black and white, even all text.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #20  
Old 10-13-2016, 09:23 AM
sk72 sk72 is offline
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My CEL light came on last weekend with P20EE or 4D16. I dropped the car to the dealer and they replaced the two NOx sensors for free under warranty. They checked for any DDE stored codes and did not find anything else to be replaced. Keeping my fingers crossed not to get a CEL light soon.
2012 X5 35D with 62000 miles.
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