Tesla Model S Outsells BMW 7 Series and Mercedes S Class Combined

by Bernie McGroarty on October 19, 2016, 4:58 pm
”7 sales”

Tesla is killing it in the high end large luxury car segment. Their Model S third quarter sales have beaten both the BMW 7 Series and the Mercedes S Class, combined.

According to Bloomberg, Model S sales for the third quarter of 2016 were at staggering 9,156, with the Mercedes-Benz S-Class lagged pretty far behind at 4,921 and the 7 Series sitting even further back with 3,634. Comparing these numbers to Q3 of 2015 still has Tesla increasing sales by 59%, which is pretty solid, but the 7 Series numbers, while lower than the Model S, were still up an impressive 219% over 2015. So, it looks like the intro of the new 7 last year may have helped sales a bit, but not nearly enough to come close Tesla’s Model S.

Check out the sales numbers from Bloomberg:

”7 sales”

Source Bloomberg



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24 responses to Tesla Model S Outsells BMW 7 Series and Mercedes S Class Combined

Almaretto commented:
October 19, 2016, 8:40 pm

This does not surprise me that much considering the number of Tesla's I seen on the road every day.
AlteBMW commented:
October 19, 2016, 8:54 pm

I am not sure what conclusions can be drawn from this math. Would like to read the whole article for the reasoning and methodology.

BTW, the S class also outsold BMW 7 and Lexus LS combined. The 7 series also had the highest increase from 2015 to 2016, but they say sales are disappointing. The Audi 7 and 8 had the greatest percentage declines. I'm not sure any of those are meaningful conclusions. There were 17 million cars sold, or something like that, in the US last year, so all these cars are tiny tiny percentages of the whole.
Almaretto commented:
October 19, 2016, 9:09 pm

BMW should be concerned, if going after the same demographics, from a marketing as well as R&D stand point. I have read Tesla is sold out for the year while there are still plenty of G12's sitting on the lots.

Personally, I would rather not have every car on the road look the same, so I would feel fine contributing to a smaller market share.
acoste commented:
October 19, 2016, 10:12 pm

Some of the Tesla buyers are people who drove E classe, 5 series size cars before and wouldn't buy S or 7 but just sat on the Tesla / electric car hype.

See the total number of cars sold in this segment has increased 29%. Tesla brought new people into the pool.
Miami10 commented:
October 19, 2016, 11:17 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by weinschela View Post
I am not sure what conclusions can be drawn from this math. Would like to read the whole article for the reasoning and methodology.

BTW, the S class also outsold BMW 7 and Lexus LS combined. The 7 series also had the highest increase from 2015 to 2016, but they say sales are disappointing. The Audi 7 and 8 had the greatest percentage declines. I'm not sure any of those are meaningful conclusions. There were 17 million cars sold, or something like that, in the US last year, so all these cars are tiny tiny percentages of the whole.
Bloomberg is certainly a major and well respected publication, but the math is a little wrong. Mercedes Benz do not provide their sales figures in the way shown. EClass/CLS are bundled together. S Class includes Sedan, Coupe, Convertible, and Maybach variants.

Based on volume alone, Tesla sold more than xxxxx and others are not selling as well. It also shows that Tesla and MB are going full bore Subvened Lease to year end for maximum volume; something many experts are predicting will be a bad decision. Tesla's Lease Hold Trust /Buyback guarantee fund are "ok" by minimum requirements, however the Model 3 Pre-Reaervation for Reservation and eventually you can place an order program put the funds into this Trust. Elon will be departing upon the next bonus payout milestone. Then things will be very interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaretto View Post
BMW should be concerned, if going after the same demographics, from a marketing as well as R&D stand point. I have read Tesla is sold out for the year while there are still plenty of G12's sitting on the lots.

Personally, I would rather not have every car on the road look the same, so I would feel fine contributing to a smaller market share.
BMW is doing EXACTLY what they should and planned for. 7er new transactions are biased to lease in the low 90% range. Unit distribution numbers were evaluated in the spring resulting in a very big change in units on ground and high volume non incentivized sellers. The X models maintain a high demand and availability was provided. These had huge increased in YTD sales
Almaretto commented:
October 19, 2016, 11:42 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami10 View Post
Elon will be departing upon the next bonus payout milestone. Then things will be very interesting.

BMW is doing EXACTLY what they should and planned for. 7er new transactions are biased to lease in the low 90% range. Unit distribution numbers were evaluated in the spring resulting in a very big change in units on ground and high volume non incentivized sellers. The X models maintain a high demand and availability was provided. These had huge increased in YTD sales
That is and things will get very interesting. Thanks for the information.
Miami10 commented:
October 20, 2016, 12:49 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaretto View Post
That is and things will get very interesting. Thanks for the information.
In 2008, BMW Lease Trust incurred a $3billion loss from defaults and heavily Residualized leases ending and nose dive in used prices. They still continued them through 2009 at insane prices. I picked up a fully loaded E60 M5 6MT on a 24mo lease, drive offs only, with a total payment of $506.66. Things like that would never happen again.

The F10 M5 used Market is going to be interesting to see...2016 has been fluttering back and forth between 98% and 99%. Never in the history of leasing has the bias ever been so high. With BMWFS holding almost off of them, having complete control as well as risk is a slippery slope:
AntDX316 commented:
October 20, 2016, 6:51 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami10 View Post
In 2008, BMW Lease Trust incurred a $3billion loss from defaults and heavily Residualized leases ending and nose dive in used prices. They still continued them through 2009 at insane prices. I picked up a fully loaded E60 M5 6MT on a 24mo lease, drive offs only, with a total payment of $506.66. Things like that would never happen again.

The F10 M5 used Market is going to be interesting to see...2016 has been fluttering back and forth between 98% and 99%. Never in the history of leasing has the bias ever been so high. With BMWFS holding almost off of them, having complete control as well as risk is a slippery slope:
I mean.. the new Tesla is faster than new super cars and can keep the lead up to 5 gears. It also has 4-doors while they only have 2. Perhaps it can corner as good as the supercars but practicality speaking it's the most ideal choice if you aren't driving cross-country mileage often. I think the gas is far less and oil change doesn't even exist.. It should be a 100% no-brainer that when buying new at the $100k price point that Tesla is the best option.
Gary J commented:
October 20, 2016, 7:45 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami10 View Post
Elon will be departing upon the next bonus payout milestone. Then things will be very interesting.
I wonder if he knows this let alone you since he has options out to 2022.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntDX316 View Post
I mean.. the new Tesla is faster than new super cars and can keep the lead up to 5 gears.
And I wonder how many Tesla owners are one and done. Who cares about straight away speed in a luxury car? Once you've done Ludicrous it's ok what else? And if gas stays cheap the hybrids may prove the more popular for the foreseeable future.
CALWATERBOY DUE commented:
October 20, 2016, 10:54 am

.

Say what you will, but can't go 5 min w/o spotting a Tesla here.
  • 7 Series not so much.
  • S Class not so much.

They're on a roll.....
AlteBMW commented:
October 20, 2016, 11:14 am

Until the infrastructure is there for recharging, Tesla will be limited to areas where it makes sense. That cuts two ways. It is a limiting factor for current sales but it is also a signal of huge upside potential. As an example, in the NYC area with traffic jams, I would not consider a Tesla for a daily commute unless I was able to plug in at work. On my trips to the East end of Long Island, traffic in summer can be horrible. In a gasoline powered car, you sit there and get annoyed. In an electric car, with no charging stations anywhere close, you're also watching your battery capacity, esp with a/c on.

Electric today requires more thought in advance and planning out re getting charged while gasoline is more spontaneous. When and if the infrastructure is built out, that will change, but it will be a long time before you can get in a Tesla and not have to think about where and when to charge. The upside is that when and if the infratructure is built out, Tesla is waaay ahead of everybody else.
CALWATERBOY DUE commented:
October 20, 2016, 12:22 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by weinschela View Post
on my trips to the east end of long island, traffic in summer can be horrible. In a gasoline powered car, you sit there and get annoyed. In an electric car, with no charging stations anywhere close, you're also watching your battery capacity, esp with a/c on.

Attachment 579620
Miami10 commented:
October 20, 2016, 1:40 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
I wonder if he knows this let alone you since he has options out to 2022.

And I wonder how many Tesla owners are one and done?
And when the milestones are conveniently fulfilled in say, 2018, what then? I walked away from a board position the evening prior a few years after the start and rejected them twice more.

CR is a very valid question. It will be answered at a convenient point.
Gary J commented:
October 20, 2016, 1:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami10 View Post
And when the milestones are conveniently fulfilled in say, 2018, what then? I walked away from a board position the evening prior a few years after the start and rejected them twice more.

CR is a very valid question. It will be answered at a convenient point.
I don't know "what then", neither do you and I suspect not even he. All rather different from a definitive "Elon will be departing upon the next bonus payout milestone". Not to mention the guy has some rather pricey aspirations like space exploration.
acoste commented:
October 20, 2016, 1:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
And I wonder how many Tesla owners are one and done. Who cares about straight away speed in a luxury car? Once you've done Ludicrous it's ok what else? And if gas stays cheap the hybrids may prove the more popular for the foreseeable future.
Not promoting Tesla at all since I don't like the design and built quality. Feels cheap for its price (and that's what is going to kill them in long term). However I like one thing.
My friend and I often tease each other about his Tesla love.
He replaced his S6 that had a turbo V8 for the Tesla. He told me he can accelerate in every corner as much as he wants to without feeling guilty for the 9mpg the Audi would have consumed at the same driving style.

As for cornering speed, physics don't lie. Battery packs down there bring down the center of mass that feels very good in curves up to a certain speed but higher than that there is no suspension that could keep the over-weighted car on the road.
Miami10 commented:
October 20, 2016, 1:58 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
I don't know "what then", neither do you and I suspect not even he. All rather different from a definitive "Elon will be departing upon the next bonus payout milestone". Not to mention the guy has some rather pricey aspirations like space exploration.
Can't get to Mars in a sleeping bag on a small annual salary without leaving...haha

Well maybe a specific member here could.
Gary J commented:
October 20, 2016, 2:10 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
Not promoting Tesla at all since I don't like the design and built quality. Feels cheap for its price
I don't get it either. It looks bland and I don't think that many are spending and average of 100k+ a car to save some gas money.
Wolfman64 commented:
October 20, 2016, 5:27 pm

In time EV's will rule the road. They just make more sense than ICE's. Simple as that...

But while Tesla is in the forefront, it is still a niche manufacturer that will struggle once the competition will start.
Boring design that reminds me of a variety of Ford/Asian models with poor/average build quality; it is not a luxury car.
Their selling model is not consumer friendly as it is impossible to negotiate any discounts, meaning the 25% margin on the Model S ends in their pocket.

The Tesla is very fast to 60mph but that's due to EV tech, not Tesla's secret sauce, so new competitors from Germany, China and the US can have the same performance numbers in a better looking and maybe cheaper package.

Updated battery tech that can take the battery charge time down to 15 minutes (to 80%) with convenient induction charging and longer range.
Leslierc commented:
October 20, 2016, 6:08 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaretto View Post
This does not surprise me that much considering the number of Tesla's I seen on the road every day.
Amen to that! I was looking for the street corner where I thought they were giving them away.
Leslierc commented:
October 20, 2016, 6:15 pm

Teslas used to pull along side me when I had my P4S. In Sport+ I could pace them for a bit but I knew better than to take the bait. Looks are subjective, but the tech in those cars is impressive and they are supercar fast. Hell, that SUV they have can do zero to sixty in 3 seconds!
Almaretto commented:
October 20, 2016, 7:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
I don't get it either. It looks bland and I don't think that many are spending and average of 100k+ a car to save some gas money.
It definitely looks bland. But, it is not just about saving gas money; it is also has toll-road/ carpool lane and carbon footprint advantages.

Additionally, the OTA updates might sound enticing, but I think people are too focused on what might be when there there is no promise of what and when they will come.
CALWATERBOY DUE commented:
October 20, 2016, 8:59 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman64 View Post
In time EV's will rule the road. They just make more sense than ICE's. Simple as that...

Updated battery tech that can take the battery charge time down to 15 minutes (to 80%) with convenient induction charging and longer range.

Not as simple as it may seem, but there's truth in that.

Now then. Exactly who has that 15 min to 80% cap battery charge capability? Noting that 5 min will fill a gasoline tank that goes much farther and is grossly more convenient to locate.
jadnashuanh commented:
October 21, 2016, 12:59 am

Last figure I saw, there are over 100K gas stations in the USA, and nearly all of them have many more than a couple of pumps. It will take eons to get as large and convenient EV charging points, if ever, and probably forget about H2 ones...last I read, typically about $1M each. How would you ever recover the costs without massive subsidies?
acoste commented:
October 21, 2016, 1:37 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
Last figure I saw, there are over 100K gas stations in the USA, and nearly all of them have many more than a couple of pumps. It will take eons to get as large and convenient EV charging points, if ever, and probably forget about H2 ones...last I read, typically about $1M each. How would you ever recover the costs without massive subsidies?
I wish they would come up with a good H2 solution!

EV cars at the current stage aren't a suitable solution. The price of an EV car is way too high. People can only afford them with a good amount of government support. But once everyone wants to drive electric, that discount will be gone. Also there is no solution yet to recycle the Lithium batteries. And I wouldn't call them clean as long as they run on electricity generated by coal power plants (33% as of 2015).
Wolfman64 commented:
October 21, 2016, 1:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
Last figure I saw, there are over 100K gas stations in the USA, and nearly all of them have many more than a couple of pumps. It will take eons to get as large and convenient EV charging points, if ever, and probably forget about H2 ones...last I read, typically about $1M each. How would you ever recover the costs without massive subsidies?
That's the main issue of EV's. Infrastructure and charging time. It's a massive issue that will put widespread adoption to 25-30 years...

In many parts of the world, people don't have private parking options and park on the street (think 70% in Europe). So charging station will have to be primarily on public property.

For large scale sales of EV's. this means millions, not thousands of charging stations that would have to be publicly funded.

The re-charge cycle has to be in 5 minutes or so in the future to effectively move away from ICE's.
The Porsche and upcoming Mercedes will be able to do it in 15 min.

There is actually a really cool idea coming out of Switzerland to fuel the car through electric liquids. Using Redox flow batteries, it uses electro chemical energy that depletes.
The promised energy density itself has been questioned over the years as the company failed to deliver tangible results but they are now having their cars out for first review.

Their top of the line car is supposed to have over 1000hp, 0-60 is 2.8 sec., 186mph top speed and 700+ miles range! Refueling in 5 minutes...

Here is a first drive in AMS (German Car Mag). Sorry, in German only...
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...-11566204.html
Love the concept if it works: http://www.nanoflowcell.com