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Carbon Build Up a 335d issue?

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#23 ·
I have an 2011 X5d with ~70k on it and no issues. But I would love to get hold of a totaled X5d and remove the injectors, DPF, turbos and other undamaged parts so I have spares. Maybe just keep the entire totaled car next to my garage with a tarp over it. But there are companies out there that have contracts with insurance co's that do this, and the parts end up refurbished and sold on rockauto.com, for example.
 
#24 · (Edited)
finnbmw said:
Which BG product do you use? Have you seen any impact of either the BG or Optilube use?

My 2010 X5d has 53k and no issues with CBU
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I've used BG244, which is the serious injector/fuel system cleaner. One quart should be enough to treat 2-3 full tanks on a 335d.
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel-fuel-system/bg-244/#bg-product-1

I'm also trying BG DFC Plus. Very concentrated stuff. One quart treats something like 250 gals of diesel fuel.

http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel-fuel-system/bg-dfc-plus/#bg-product-5

My concept is to use BG244 every 25K miles to give the fuel system a serious cleaning, then treat occasionally with DFC Plus to keep it cleaned and other stated benefits. You can check the links above for the description of what each product does. The indy mechanic I have used for 20 years with my previous gas burning BMW's, was a big fan of the BG44k product. BG244 is the equivalent for diesel.

I think Optilube is kind of similar to DFC Plus in that it claims to add lubricity and improves cetane rating. Also helps in real cold temps, not normally a problem in the Southeast. I ordered a 6 pack of 8oz bottles and gave it a try based on recommendations by other diesel drivers, on other boards.

I think it is hard to make a data driven judgement on these products, but I can tell when I have additives in the tank of fuel. Generally, the engine seems to run quieter and a little "smoother". I also generally get about 1.5 - 2.0 mpg average better when I have the Optilube or DFC Plus in the fuel. For instance, when I have the additives, I average about 33.5-34.0 MPG for the entire tank during my normal commute. If I'm driving a pure highway trip with the additives, I will avg a solid 38 mpg for the entire tank, cruising at between 75-80 mph. Without the additives, I usually avg just over 32 mpg on the commute and won't normally exceed 36 mpg on a highway trip.

I think if you do the math, the cost of the additives won't be recovered just by the increase in fuel mileage. However, "if" they accomplish what they advertise, then the engine/fuel system should be better off due to being cleaner, better lubricated and running a little higher cetane than just ULSD alone.
 
#25 ·
cliffj said:
I've used BG244, which is the serious injector/fuel system cleaner. One quart should be enough to treat 2-3 full tanks on a 335d.
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel-fuel-system/bg-244/#bg-product-1

I'm also trying BG DFC Plus. Very concentrated stuff. One quart treats something like 250 gals of diesel fuel.

http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel-fuel-system/bg-dfc-plus/#bg-product-5

My concept is to use BG244 every 25K miles to give the fuel system a serious cleaning, then treat occasionally with DFC Plus to keep it cleaned and other stated benefits. You can check the links above for the description of what each product does. The indy mechanic I have used for 20 years with my previous gas burning BMW's, was a big fan of the BG44k product. BG244 is the equivalent for diesel.

I think Optilube is kind of similar to DFC Plus in that it claims to add lubricity and improves cetane rating. Also helps in real cold temps, not normally a problem in the Southeast. I ordered a 6 pack of 8oz bottles and gave it a try based on recommendations by other diesel drivers, on other boards.

I think it is hard to make a data driven judgement on these products, but I can tell when I have additives in the tank of fuel. Generally, the engine seems to run quieter and a little "smoother". I also generally get about 1.5 - 2.0 mpg average better when I have the Optilube or DFC Plus in the fuel. For instance, when I have the additives, I average about 33.5-34.0 MPG for the entire tank during my normal commute. If I'm driving a pure highway trip with the additives, I will avg a solid 38 mpg for the entire tank, cruising at between 75-80 mph. Without the additives, I usually avg just over 32 mpg on the commute and won't normally exceed 36 mpg on a highway trip.

I think if you do the math, the cost of the additives won't be recovered just by the increase in fuel mileage. However, "if" they accomplish what they advertise, then the engine/fuel system should be better off due to being cleaner, better lubricated and running a little higher cetane than just ULSD alone.
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I've used BG44k in my gassers and love the product. But those engines were not direct injection. I have to wonder how the diesel variant does any good to prevent CBU on direct injection engines. Can you explain?
 
#26 ·
glangford said:
I've used BG44k in my gassers and love the product. But those engines were not direct injection. I have to wonder how the diesel variant does any good to prevent CBU on direct injection engines. Can you explain?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I can't really explain the reason why it works, but this link does mention it works for DI engines... Even a 16 min video at the link under the "video" tab.

http://www.bgprod.com.au/product/244j-bg244-for-diesels/
 
#28 ·
cliffj said:
I think it is hard to make a data driven judgement on these products, but I can tell when I have additives in the tank of fuel. Generally, the engine seems to run quieter and a little "smoother". I also generally get about 1.5 - 2.0 mpg average better when I have the Optilube or DFC Plus in the fuel. For instance, when I have the additives, I average about 33.5-34.0 MPG for the entire tank during my normal commute. If I'm driving a pure highway trip with the additives, I will avg a solid 38 mpg for the entire tank, cruising at between 75-80 mph. Without the additives, I usually avg just over 32 mpg on the commute and won't normally exceed 36 mpg on a highway trip.
Click to expand...
A solution to these anecdotal statements might be for the person using additives to have someone else put them in, which would mean the driver doesn't fuel the vehicle at all either. Let random intervals occur with and without additive. Then we would really see if there is a way to tell that an additive was used or not, and whether there is any potential benefit in drivability.

Here is an interesting study on open label placebo: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0015591

PL
 
#29 · (Edited)
glangford said:
I've used BG44k in my gassers and love the product. But those engines were not direct injection. I have to wonder how the diesel variant does any good to prevent CBU on direct injection engines. Can you explain?
Click to expand...
For one just like gas, diesel injectors can develop deposits at the nozzle and the detergent additives added to untreated diesel are supposed to prevent that. Usually the aftermarket additives contain this component in their product as well.

If you have an uneven spray pattern then you may develop more soot which will add to the carbon loading. I don't think anyone would agree that aftermarket additives prevent CBU but that they simply push it sometime into the future.
 
#30 ·
Just ran into a buddy of mine who has done work on my car for a couple of years now. He is a BMW master technician and now works solely on PUMA cases and methods of repairing BMW vehicles in general. He told me that from the start of this year he's been heavily involved with the carbon issues on the 335d. Told me that BMW dealers now have the tools for the walnut blasting type of cleaning. He also mentioned that the air intake manifold can also be sent away for cleaning and it'll come back looking brand new. Moreover, he said that every 335d owner should be prepared to do this at least once and perhaps more depending on how long you plan on owning your D.
 
#31 ·
GreekboyD. Are these cars low mileage, high mileage, city drivers or highway drivers? Has any correlation been made? How come everyone isn't affected? I know guys with VW's who say the same. Some TDI's had the issues others not. Someone here on the forum said it was 09 D's but I think all years (09,10,11)had someone with a buildup problem.What kind of mileage do you have on your 09?
 
#32 ·
GreekboyD said:
Just ran into a buddy of mine who has done work on my car for a couple of years now. He is a BMW master technician and now works solely on PUMA cases and methods of repairing BMW vehicles in general. He told me that from the start of this year he's been heavily involved with the carbon issues on the 335d. Told me that BMW dealers now have the tools for the walnut blasting type of cleaning. He also mentioned that the air intake manifold can also be sent away for cleaning and it'll come back looking brand new. Moreover, he said that every 335d owner should be prepared to do this at least once and perhaps more depending on how long you plan on owning your D.
Click to expand...
Presumably the walnut blast of the head is a similar level of effort (and $) as the gassers. How much to have the intake ultrasonically cleaned?
 
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#33 · (Edited)
robster10 said:
GreekboyD. Are these cars low mileage, high mileage, city drivers or highway drivers? Has any correlation been made? How come everyone isn't affected? I know guys with VW's who say the same. Some TDI's had the issues others not. Someone here on the forum said it was 09 D's but I think all years (09,10,11)had someone with a buildup problem.What kind of mileage do you have on your 09?
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All good questions and I'll email him these on Monday. He had no cost yet for the procedure and said the X5d vehicles are also affected with CBU but on a much lesser scale than our 335d vehicles.

I'm at 49,000 kms but had my air intake manifold replaced at about 20,000 kms.

CBU has been seen in every year for the 335d and isn't just a 2009 problem.
 
#35 · (Edited)
robster10 said:
GreekboyD. For an 09 you have low mileage. I'm assuming you don't drive for the winter. If your car sits for long periods are you using a fuel stabilizer for your diesel?
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Nope, it doesn't sit during the winter. I only drive 11 kms to work and I hit the highway 1-2 times a week when I visit my sister which is a 110 km to and fro drive. I'd say 30-35% highway and 65-70% city driving for me.

No fuel stabilizer and I don't baby the car at all, city or highway.

A poster named Wrecker335d on the other diesel forum says he has a friend who has confirmed that the SIB for diesel carbon cleaning is 110314.

What mileage is your D at? I bought mine in August of 2011 and it only had 3,800 kms on it.
 
#36 ·
I talked to my SA today. He just returned from some kind of BMW conference.

He says that the walnut blasting attachments they are getting will clean the valves...BUT NOT THE INTAKES...which need to be replaced or sent away for cleaning. So intake build-up will continue to be a problem.

The back order situation is so bad that they are sending intakes out for cleaning. Either way he says all have been covered by warranty including CPO.

BUT THE ONLY CARS HE HAS SEEN AT HIS DEALERSHIP HAVE BEEN THE SUVs. Interesting.

Just a couple of anecdotal points.
 
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#37 · (Edited)
DaveN007 said:
I talked to my SA today. He just returned from some kind of BMW conference.

He says that the walnut blasting attachments they are getting will clean the valves...BUT NOT THE INTAKES...which need to be replaced or sent away for cleaning. So intake build-up will continue to be a problem.
Click to expand...
How much to send the intake away for cleaning?

The back order situation is so bad that they are sending intakes out for cleaning. Either way he says all have been covered by warranty including CPO.

BUT THE ONLY CARS HE HAS SEEN AT HIS DEALERSHIP HAVE BEEN THE SUVs. Interesting.

Just a couple of anecdotal points.
Click to expand...
I hope this applies outside of warranty period. If not, this would seem to be ripe for a class action lawsuit. CBU is definitely a design defect that was not disclosed prior to purchase.
 
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#38 ·
CBU on my 2010

Guys, this is a great discussion. This is a big problem that I've spent quite a few hours learning about in the last few days. I wish I would have looked here months ago when I noticed the rough idle instead of telling my BMW SA and expecting them to steer me right. (What was I thinking?...taking it to the pros :mad:). Now, the car is 3 months out of warranty (based on time, not mileage) and I'm looking at a $10,000+ repair.

Any suggestions on how to work through this with Corporate? I have it documented in the warranty period, but SES never came on until a week ago.

Other questions I have...how common is this? What %'age of cars are affected? It seems like this is an issue with gas DI engines too.

What should I plan for regarding future cleanings as preventative maint. in both service frequency and $$?

I have to say that the cost savings of using diesel are completely wiped out if you have to spend hundreds of $$'s every 2 years for a clean up!
 
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