BimmerFest BMW Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am currently tring to find out why my 530i will not fire and run. I have done alot of research on this and other forums, along with spending many hours in the Bentley and BMW manual, but am yet to get the car to run. Some background info... The engine was replaced, due to low compression and bad head gaskets. The previous owner's wife was tired of looking at it, so I took it on as a challenge. When I started looking into it I found that the alternator / battery wires were contacting the cooling tubes. Corrected the short at the alternator. I checked the 2 fuses to ensure they were still functional. Tried starting the car and found that the DME wasn't grounding out the fuel pump relay or the DME relay. So, the fuel pump wasn't being activated. I jumpered the grounds off of the relays and ensured the fuel pump was working and the DME was being powered. I also verified the coils were all firing. I also verified the engine had sufficient compression. I also checked to make sure the injectors were firing. I did find 1 injector that was stuck open and just dumping the gas into 1 of the cyylinders. Replaced the bad injector. I have checked the continuity of the wires coming off of the DME to ground and that is not the issue. I So, from what I can see I have gas, compression and spark. Yet the car still will not run. I have tried swapping the DME and it still does no ground out the relays to get the car to start. So, I have left the groundwires on the relays to makes surethe fuel pump and DME has power. I have checked the Crankshaft position sensor and Camshaft sensor, they are within tolerance limits. The car is equipped w/ OBDI, I have tried to do the stomp test, but it does not give any codes. I aslo had a friend bring his OBDI scanner over and it could not communicate w/ the DME. I would think that would point to needing the DME replaced, but since I have tried swapping it out w/o improvement, I don't think that is it. Being that I have a 80 633csi, 87 325e and a 90 735i, I can't test the DME in any of those vehicles to verify that one or either of them are good. But I wouldn't think that they both would have the exact same issue. That leads me to think that there is something else that I am just missing. I would like to get this car back on the road, since it's the best looking car in the driveway. I would also like to fix it the right way, without having to jumper relays to get the fuel pump to activate. Especially since the patch obviously didn't fix the problem. I have owned many bmws as old as a 69 2002 (71 02, 72 02, 74 02,75 02,76 02tii) and the above mentioned BMWs and still haven't found one that couldn't be fixed. I doubt this 530i is any different. Any help/assistance to this Bmw enthusiast, on a budget, would be appreciated. Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
You have hit all the usual no-start suspects, I can only wait to see what someone comes up with to try to resolve it. These cars are confounding to say the least. Strange that it will not throw a code:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
I believe that has the imobilizer EWS I , that might be the culprit , I am having the same issue and Just waiting on my EWS II delete chip with stage 1 software upgrades ... there is a write -up on this or google EWS I symptoms under no start condition .. thats all i can think off .... look up BMRLVR he has a great write-up on it .... goodluck
Noel
 

·
Humble E34 lover
Joined
·
5,519 Posts
I'm at work right now and don't have a lot of time to go through your post, but here is a good write up on the EWS (if the link will work - seems to work intermittently with me).

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf

Steve
 

·
Humble E34 lover
Joined
·
5,519 Posts
According to the information in the above link, OP's car would not have EWS nor the "drive away protection" due to its date of manufacture.

OP, we will collectively think this through and get you going again. I will have more time later today to look through your thourough list of diagnostics and repair methods tried thus far.

Steve
 

·
dirt3
Joined
·
36 Posts
i was having the same problem with my M20 on my 525I, it was running before i replaced the injectors yesterday, now i got it to run by cleanning the CPS but it runs very rough. could it be the timing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
According to the information in the above link, OP's car would not have EWS nor the "drive away protection" due to its date of manufacture.

OP, we will collectively think this through and get you going again. I will have more time later today to look through your thourough list of diagnostics and repair methods tried thus far.

Steve
Steve I thought that year has the ews I version , did they quit putting any form of ews for that year ?, I know they started the ews II of 01/95 production date . So I am confused on these annoying EWS thing lol , it does make sense what you are saying cause a red label DME 413 with vanos will work in replacement of my silver ews II with vanos granted I do the splicing of the wires you mentioned in your Write up . I did order the EWS II delete chip with the stage 1 upgrade software in it , got the starter working now but still no fuel and spark did the regular checks that you suggested .. waiting patiently on the chip and hope it works .....:)
 

·
Humble E34 lover
Joined
·
5,519 Posts
Steve I thought that year has the ews I version , did they quit putting any form of ews for that year ?, I know they started the ews II of 01/95 production date . So I am confused on these annoying EWS thing lol , it does make sense what you are saying cause a red label DME 413 with vanos will work in replacement of my silver ews II with vanos granted I do the splicing of the wires you mentioned in your Write up . I did order the EWS II delete chip with the stage 1 upgrade software in it , got the starter working now but still no fuel and spark did the regular checks that you suggested .. waiting patiently on the chip and hope it works .....:)
EWS didn't start until 1/94. OP's car is even before the "drive off" protection. If you did the wiring mods correctly, and you have a known good red label 413 DME, then your car should crank. If it is not cranking, then something else is amiss. Just curious, but why are you getting an EWS delete chip? I assume it is because of the stage 1 upgrade, correct?

Anyway, if you do the swap and wiring mods and it still doesn't run, then you will have to look at other things. CPS or main (DME) relay come to mind. Also, make sure that if you disconnected anything to check it (like the CPS), make sure that you got everything re-connected properly. I failed to re-connect my CPS at first on my no-start saga.

Steve
 

·
Humble E34 lover
Joined
·
5,519 Posts
teufel6, I have been thinking about your no-start. Normally, if you pull the fuel pump relay and jump pins 30 and 87, and the pump runs, then that indicates a bad relay. I'm also a little confused about jumping terminals on the main (DME) relay. I am not aware that that trick can be done to power up the DME.

Are you sure that the spare DME that you used is a) the correct one with exact matching part numbers and b) a known good DME?

I guess I would suggest that you replace the fuel pump relay and main (DME) relay with new ones (total about $50 from the dealer). If you still have no spark or fuel, then re-check the CPS and make sure that it is well connected. If you still don't have spark or fuel, then either the DME is bad or something in the wiring got royally screwed with the short that you had at the starter.

Other than that, I'm pretty much out of ideas.

I hope this helps at least a little.

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
EWS didn't start until 1/94. OP's car is even before the "drive off" protection. If you did the wiring mods correctly, and you have a known good red label 413 DME, then your car should crank. If it is not cranking, then something else is amiss. Just curious, but why are you getting an EWS delete chip? I assume it is because of the stage 1 upgrade, correct?

Anyway, if you do the swap and wiring mods and it still doesn't run, then you will have to look at other things. CPS or main (DME) relay come to mind. Also, make sure that if you disconnected anything to check it (like the CPS), make sure that you got everything re-connected properly. I failed to re-connect my CPS at first on my no-start saga.

Steve
Thank you for clearing that up for me Steve , and yes I figured I might as well have the up-grade (EWSII delete chip w/ stage one ) I did wire it already and the starter is working now . except for the spark control and the fuel delivery . today I shall check on the relays for both (fuel pump and ) Thanks again and I took pictures of the steps I have done and I shall post them when I get the problem resolved :)
Noel
 

·
Humble E34 lover
Joined
·
5,519 Posts
Thank you for clearing that up for me Steve , and yes I figured I might as well have the up-grade (EWSII delete chip w/ stage one ) I did wire it already and the starter is working now . except for the spark control and the fuel delivery . today I shall check on the relays for both (fuel pump and ) Thanks again and I took pictures of the steps I have done and I shall post them when I get the problem resolved :)
Noel
I'm confused :confused:

Are you going to use your old silver label DME with the EWS delete chip or a red label 413 DME with the chip? Did you try the red label DME?

I guess my concern is this. Since you successfully bypassed the EWS (as manifested by the fact that the car now cranks over), then the car should run if all else is ok (i.e. CPS, main relay etc.). If your silver label DME is bad, the car will indeed crank over with a successful EWS bypass, but you will still not get spark and fuel and an EWS delete chip will not make it produce spark and fuel.

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
I'm confused :confused:

Are you going to use your old silver label DME with the EWS delete chip or a red label 413 DME with the chip? Did you try the red label DME?

I guess my concern is this. Since you successfully bypassed the EWS (as manifested by the fact that the car now cranks over), then the car should run if all else is ok (i.e. CPS, main relay etc.). If your silver label DME is bad, the car will indeed crank over with a successful EWS bypass, but you will still not get spark and fuel and an EWS delete chip will not make it produce spark and fuel.

Steve
Ok ! Hm , I was on the impression that If I bypass and bridge the wires 1&3 at the ewsII connector and plug the connector back in the EWSII ( is this right , putting the connector back in the EWSII ? or should I just leave it off ? ) and still no running engine that the EWSII is still mobilized . so next is I clipped the pin # 7 green wire in the wiring harness next to the diagnostic plug ( I know you told me to cut it by the EWSII but i could not get behind the EWSII module ) so now I tried starting it again and still no running engine , it did not even seem like it was about to catch ( Not even a hint of fuel smell ) so what I understand you saying is that if i got to bypass the starter and clipped that green wire that means my EWSII is disabled ? Then a delete chip won't even help me at all . and so I should order me a red label DME 413 ? If so since I ordered the chip delete with stage 1 for a silver dme413 is useless unless I ordered a EWSII equiped silver dme ? Is that right Thanks Noel
 

·
Humble E34 lover
Joined
·
5,519 Posts
Ok ! Hm , I was on the impression that If I bypass and bridge the wires 1&3 at the ewsII connector and plug the connector back in the EWSII ( is this right , putting the connector back in the EWSII ? or should I just leave it off ? ) and still no running engine that the EWSII is still mobilized . so next is I clipped the pin # 7 green wire in the wiring harness next to the diagnostic plug ( I know you told me to cut it by the EWSII but i could not get behind the EWSII module ) so now I tried starting it again and still no running engine , it did not even seem like it was about to catch ( Not even a hint of fuel smell ) so what I understand you saying is that if i got to bypass the starter and clipped that green wire that means my EWSII is disabled ? Then a delete chip won't even help me at all . and so I should order me a red label DME 413 ? If so since I ordered the chip delete with stage 1 for a silver dme413 is useless unless I ordered a EWSII equiped silver dme ? Is that right Thanks Noel
Sorry I haven't been able to respond to your questions sooner. It was another long work day. Again, unfortunately, I'm still confused. Perhaps a short summary will help.

The EWS system requires coordination between the EWS module and the DME. If the proper key is not used, then the EWS prevents the DME from energizing the starter, fuel pump or coils. Essentially what happens is, the person turns the key and the engine does nothing (not even a click), while all lights dash lights come on. This means that the EWS is preventing a theft. These same symptoms can also be caused by a faulty neutral safety switch on the transmission. However, if the EWS module itself fails, then even with the correct key, the engine will do nothing and the dash lights will come on.

I have read somewhere that, if it us just a failure of the EWS module only, then all that has to be done is to cut the green wire (#4, solid green, small diameter wire) and this will bypass the EWS module. I'm not as sure about this since my problem was a failed DME and not a failed EWS module.

Therefore, if one uses the proper key and the engine will not crank over and the dash lights are on (assuming that you have the car in park or neutral and the neutral safety switch is okay), then suspect EWS module failure.

Also thusly, if the engine turns over but fails the crank, then the EWS module is functioning properly and allowing the starter to energize. If you don't have spark or fuel, then the problem lies elsewhere, other than the EWS module.

In my case, by ruling everything else out, I determined that my DME had failed and entered into the twilight zone of trying to figure out how to use a red label DME.

If you are able to crank the engine over (meaning that the EWS module is functioning properly), but have determined that the silver label DME has failed (meaning you have ruled out all of the other electrical culprits such as the CPS or main relay), you will need a new DME. I don't think that the EWS delete chip will help a failed DME.

If you have cut wires #1 and #3 (#1 is black/yellow and #3 is green/black) and bridged them on both the DME and EWS module side, and you have cut the small diameter green wire (#4, not #7 which should be a brown ground wire), then you should be able to get a red label 413 DME (it must come out of a Vanos equipped M50) and get your car running again.

This is terribly difficult to explain in a written format. I hope that I have not confused you more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Got it , I shall proceed and order the red label 413 DME
Thank's Steve . My apologies to the OP , didn't mean to hijack your thread , I was just surprised to find the EWS guru ( Steve ) lingering and wanted to ask him some questions ' I am still car less you see ... :cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I have not had the freetime and daylight to get back out to the 530i. I did want to clarify, that the DME grounds out the fuel pump relay when it is functioning properly. However for a reason that I am trying to figure out, my DME is not acting as a ground for the relays. So, I hooked up my own Ground for the relays. By doing so I was able to get the fuel pump and other relays to activate. So, the relays check good. With the current setup I have got spark on all cylinders, fuel pump runs, the engine turns over and like I stated before I have decent compression on all 8 cylinders. I do want to go back and double check that the injectors are all firing, or if it is just a portion of them. I know that when I pulled the different plugs that a couple of them definently showed signs of gas. So, in reading about the Drive Away Protection (precurser to EWS) that was put on these cars in 09/93, I wondered if there was a chance that my 07/93 might have gotten it too? If so, how does one go about bypassing it? I know I shouldn't need a EWS delete chip. But possibly something I could do with the wiring to the DME/General module? Because the symptoms I have really seems like the car has disabled itself. If it would help the diagnosis, I can pull #s off of DME or any of the other modules. Also a small side note, The origninal engine had a smog pump on it and the new engine does not. I looked at the other wiring harness and it appears those wires are just wired together. So my question on this would be... The wires that currently don't go to a smog pump, leave them apart or connect them? I have tried it both ways and it didn't make any difference (didn't blow any fuses and the car didn't all of a sudden work). Thanks for letting me pick your collective brains.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Spent more time under the hood and in the rain this weekend troubleshooting the no start situation on the 530i. Apparently the DME is disabled by the drive away protection circuit. I checked pin 66 of the DME and had 12v. Being the high signal that would disable the DME from allowing spark/fuel to the engine. I have also found the signal (5v) from the DME to the CPS isn't there. It isn't allowing the fuel pump relay or ECM relay to ground out or activate w/o putting in my own ground wire to the relays. I have tried cutting the wire to DME pin 66, to give a 0v signal to the DME in an attempt to bypass the drive away protection. That still did not allow the car to start. Is there something else that I am missing that would be needed to disable the drive away protection? It would be nice to fix the cause of the issue, but I would be just as exstatic if it would just run again. Thanks in advance for your help on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Spent more time under the hood and in the rain this weekend troubleshooting the no start situation on the 530i. Apparently the DME is disabled by the drive away protection circuit. I checked pin 66 of the DME and had 12v. Being the high signal that would disable the DME from allowing spark/fuel to the engine. I have also found the signal (5v) from the DME to the CPS isn't there. It isn't allowing the fuel pump relay or ECM relay to ground out or activate w/o putting in my own ground wire to the relays. I have tried cutting the wire to DME pin 66, to give a 0v signal to the DME in an attempt to bypass the drive away protection. That still did not allow the car to start. Is there something else that I am missing that would be needed to disable the drive away protection? It would be nice to fix the cause of the issue, but I would be just as exstatic if it would just run again. Thanks in advance for your help on this.
OP, I've been having this same issue and have done the same troubleshooting as you so far. Did you ever get it sorted out? I do think it is related to the drive away protection but I don't know for sure on my end.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top