BimmerFest BMW Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,
I've had my 535i since June and really love it. Hasn't had any HPFP issues, but I am curious about a pretty loud clatter that my SA says is normal. I haven't ever noticed it on other E60 535's, but maybe I haven't listened closely enough. Do your cars sound like this at idle?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Clp5HVoU0o&context=C2262dADOEgsToPDskIaJmzcbBl5kcrX-8OuiXjY
The sound emanates from the bottom of the engine just inboard of the passenger-side front wheel well. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or comments!
 

·
U of Dawgs
Joined
·
2,438 Posts
Right around where you describe it is an exhaust pipe bracket clip/tie... Jack up your car and check the bracket mount points for security. They are metal to metal so it can rattle. There was an SIB for it that I cannot seem to locate anymore.
 

·
U of Dawgs
Joined
·
2,438 Posts

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
676 Posts
Funny, I just had that bracket Kenobi was referring to replaced today. It fell out about 1 month ago and when I put my aftermarket exhaust in, it made it "rest" on the cross brace under the car. The noise was very, very similar to this (and yes, rhythmic) so I would definitely check there. It's about a $30 part and takes 5 minutes to install. The bracket actually has two bolts but they only send one, so go to an exhaust shop that can put both bolts in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
Cant tell from the clip.. But the n54s are prone to very loud waste gate rattles.
It by itself doesn't cause an issue, but may point at something else.
There are new waste gate actuators to help this.
Also, the turbos themselves were improved with larger waste gate flaps dues to that being the weakest point on them.
If all you get it a little rattling and it emanates from the turbos, it likely isn't a big deal. You can verify like this.... With the hood open and the noise present, pull one of the vacuum lines off of one of the two small vacuum reservoirs located by the coolant reservoir. It will allow the waste gate valves to open fully. If the noise goes away, the valves are rattling inside the turbo.
You could potentially adjust them, but you will never be able to reach them, nor will the adjusting nut move (it will be seized).
A slightly more "hack" way is to "tweak" the entire waste gate about a millimeter in the direction of actuation. It will allow the valve to shut fully and eliminate the rattle.
Note that this is NOT a recommended repair... But it does work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi, Manybrews. Will pulling that vacuum line set off any iDrive warnings or throw any codes? Don't want to tinker with anything and then have the dealer tell me it's my fault if there actually is an issue. Thanks!
 

·
U of Dawgs
Joined
·
2,438 Posts
Cant tell from the clip.. But the n54s are prone to very loud waste gate rattles.
It by itself doesn't cause an issue, but may point at something else.
There are new waste gate actuators to help this.
Also, the turbos themselves were improved with larger waste gate flaps dues to that being the weakest point on them.
If all you get it a little rattling and it emanates from the turbos, it likely isn't a big deal. You can verify like this.... With the hood open and the noise present, pull one of the vacuum lines off of one of the two small vacuum reservoirs located by the coolant reservoir. It will allow the waste gate valves to open fully. If the noise goes away, the valves are rattling inside the turbo.
You could potentially adjust them, but you will never be able to reach them, nor will the adjusting nut move (it will be seized).
A slightly more "hack" way is to "tweak" the entire waste gate about a millimeter in the direction of actuation. It will allow the valve to shut fully and eliminate the rattle.
Note that this is NOT a recommended repair... But it does work
.
Yes it does work... a friend did it that way on the track. Still going strong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
Hi, Manybrews. Will pulling that vacuum line set off any iDrive warnings or throw any codes? Don't want to tinker with anything and then have the dealer tell me it's my fault if there actually is an issue. Thanks!
No...along as you just do it when idling and sitting still.
If you drive with the hose off, the turbos will not work...and thus will set a fault.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Pretty sure that's the tell-tale wastegate rattle.

It reminds me of mine when I had it, but it wasn't that bad.

The sound continues a little bit after you let off the throttle, and then winds back down.

Definitely have it checked out. I had mine replaced N/C at 47k miles. You should be getting a low turbo pressure fault code. I hope you're under warranty, because they need to drop the subframe of the car to replace the turbos. Easily a $6-7k if you have to pay.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My SA thinks it may be the wastegate as well...said he has a 335i in for the same issue right now.

$6-7K?! Holy cow...what kind of design is it that they have to drop the subframe? I have 52K miles, but also have the NAC Platinum coverage plan to 100K. When I got it, I made sure that turbos/HPFP were covered, and I just re-read the Exclusions...turbos are not excluded, so I should be good if they do have to replace them.

Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that.
 

·
U of Dawgs
Joined
·
2,438 Posts
My SA thinks it may be the wastegate as well...said he has a 335i in for the same issue right now.

$6-7K?! Holy cow...what kind of design is it that they have to drop the subframe? I have 52K miles, but also have the NAC Platinum coverage plan to 100K. When I got it, I made sure that turbos/HPFP were covered, and I just re-read the Exclusions...turbos are not excluded, so I should be good if they do have to replace them.

Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that.
They can reprogram those things to tighten up the travel limits. Print out the SIB and have them try it... no need for replacement if it does not need it. That is an extremely stiff pricing... an indy can replace your turbos with the newer model for much less. If it comes to that, it will be prudent to canvas pricing and labor charges. The turbo only cost approx $650 each... the rest are labor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Be wary of anything but replacement, if that is what the sound turns out to be.

If my memory serves, (it is Friday after all), there was a software "fix" early on for the rattling wastegates. Again, to my memory, all the reprogramming does is recode the wastegates to remain partially open, elminating the rattling sound. However, in doing so, it also robs you of all benefits of the twin turbo, low/no turbo lag design, (read low-end, immediate torque). Twin turbo, in theory, spools up more quickly than a single scroll design, meaning more power, more quickly. By reprogramming the wastegate actuators to remain more open, you lose that reponsiveness.

From the sounds of it, yours will likely need replacement. I think the software fix was only good for rattling at idle only.

For reference, here is a partial transcript of my service work it was two pages long...

...DURING SERVICE LOUD RATTLE WAS HEARD FROM TURBO WASTEGATES, IT WAS NOTED ON A PREVIOUS VISIT WHEN HPFP WENT BAD. THIS TIME IT IS WORSE...

...PERFORMED TEST PLANS FOR ALL TURBO RELATED PRESSURE AND VACCUUM ASSEMBS. REMOVED BOTH EPDWS ON MANIFOLD SIDE OF ENGINE, FOUND NO VISUAL DAMAGE. NO OBVIOUS KINKS OR CRACKS IN TOPSIDE VACC HOSES DESC IN SIB 11 14 07. CONTINUED DIAGNOSIS OF FAULT 30FF TO SIB 11 13 07 AND AS STATED, THIS IS A NORMAL NOISE IN ENGINE DECEL AND NOT TO BE CONCERNED AND NOT CHANGE TURBOS OR ADJUST WASTEGATE ACTUATOR RODS. AT THIS POINT I CREATED A PUMA CASE AS DIRECTED BY THE MAY PRINT OFF PROVIDED BY BMW. THEY RESPONDED WITH THIS IS A TC CASE NOT A PUMA, WHICH CONTRADICTS THE HANDOUT...

... AFTER LENGTHY CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. XXXX, (1.0 HRS TOTAL) I WAS GIVEN PERMISSION TO OPEN SYSTEM, FURTHER REMOVED EXHAUST AND SUBFRAME TO ACCESS VACCUUM ACTUATORS ON THE TURBOS TO PERFORM VACCUUM TEST ON WASTEGATE VALVES WITH THE MIB DURING TESTS DESCRIBED IN SIB 11 28 07 I APPLIED 200 M BAR OF VACCUUM TO THE REAR TURBO. THIS IS WHEN WE DISCOVERED THAT AT THIS PIS THE VALVES WERE NOT SEATING CORRECTLY OR EVEN CLOSE TO CLOSING...

... BUSHINGS ON THE ACTUATOR RODS ON THE WASTEGATES ARE WORN OBLONG AND CREATING SEALING ISSUES...

Look on the bright side... if you get this service done, a 4-wheel alingment needs to be done afterward... Score!
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top