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old gearhead
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Discussion Starter #1
hi all
i am new here and to bmw's in general.
i just bought an 02 330ci vert and tried to use the nav. (mk III with hk sound)
i noticed the disc i have is from 08 so i figgered i needed to get a newer one. went to fleabay and found a used 2015 high usa east for 40 bucks. well, when i got it, i discovered my cars nav uses a cd, not a dvd. evidently, i have a mark 3 system with old software. and an old cd player. anybody out there got a newer than 2008 eastern us (new york state to coast) maps cd they wanna sell? or make me a copy and sell? i think i found the proper firmware to update it, but still no maps.

secondly,
can anyone on this board tell me where i can get my 330cic clutch replaced, in or around the Rochester NY area, for a realistic price? the only bmw dealer in town wants 1300$; that is just too much money for a stock clutch replacement. if anyone is near me, and knows of a good shop in the area, please drop me a note or reply. not an emergency, but will need soon.
thanks all;
r2
 

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Welcome to the addiction! $1300 for a clutch isn't bad at all. I'm in the DC metro area and it cost $1800 for a new clutch. The work was performed at a very reputable indie shop.

Try www.bimrs.org for a local BMW indie shop. Also, Google "BMWCCA #####" where "#####" is your zip code. That'll tell yuh the name of the local chapter. Join and ask for recommendations.
 

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old gearhead
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Discussion Starter #3
seriously?
1300 is 2x my mortgage!
why the hell would it cost 1300 for a stock clutch replacement? they made of gold?
 

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Maybe providing a break down of the parts being replaced, overall cost of parts, hours of labor, hourly rate would help. The we could etre mine of cost / quality of parts is off or if the labor hours are high. Labor rate is market dependent so total crapshoot.

That being said the shops have to rent the space, buy the equipment, hire techs (good techs are expensive), keep them trained, insure it all, buy parts for your repair, pay taxes, and have enough left over to buy a home and give their kids iThings, straight teeth, and a college education. Not shocked at the quote, but if it were me I would look at the details rather than just the number on the bottom.
 

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old gearhead
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Discussion Starter #5
i understand well the costs involved in running a shop. i spent 35 years as the service manager of a large operation, with 35 techs under me, a fleet of trucks and a 2 million dollar parts inventory. that doesn't change the fact that the hardware itself costs less than 400$ and the rest of that figure is pure labor. i have changed a clutch or 2 in my day. i know generally whats involved in this one, (true not exactly) but 900$ labor for a job that will take one guy 3-4 hours is insane. even if labor is a hundred an hour, this shouldn't cost more than 800 bucks out the door. and by the way, the local shops round here, including the dealer, get between 70 and 90/hr depending on who they are. but the dealer wont charge "by the hour", but only by "the book". the trouble is, no one I've talked to about this wants to do it, 'cept for the local "speed shop" or the dealer. the smaller shops don't want to tie up a bay for 4 hours at any price. just seems unreasonable to be ripped off just cause they can. guess the extra cost pays for the fancy waiting room and free coffee. cause it sure aint for the job.
 

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Your response about running a shop for 35 years reminds me of when I was towed for poor parking choice in San Francisco while I was in college, did not have a lot of money back then. I went to the pound to get my car and old guy asked for my keys in order to fetch the car. I asked him if he could drive a stick, and he proceeds to tell me he used to drive tanks in WWII and Korea, and I was some ungrateful twerp. I said that it was a great story but I still did not know if he could drive a my car, to which my BF at at the time said "Fred, just give him the f-$&ing keys!!! I handed the keys over in the name of peace, or close enough to peace...
All this to say you're still not providing the breakdown of what the quote you received was. Unless I am supposed to infer that parts were $400 and rest was labor, which is excessive.
 

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old gearhead
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Discussion Starter #7
yes, that is the breakdown
clutch plate, flywheel, through, pressure plate and fork. 388$
the REST is labor.
 

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Then labor at inferred $80 per hour is high, which you already know. Labor rate where is am is about twice as much at BMW specialist, dealer is even higher. Would be high in my neck of woods, but not completely out of line.
I'd look for shop with more realistic labor rates or you may have to wrench it yourself to bring cost down. A clutch job on a BMW is not that different from other cars so you don't need to pay for BMW shop rates, so long as the shop is competent and trustworthy. As you found out, shops have enough work so they can be picky and charge what they want for undesirable jobs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
again, I know;
but I am old, handicapped and haven't the place or the psychical ability to do a job like this anymore. i live on social security income and don't want to spend an entire check on a freekin clutch. i honestly didn't realize that owning a bmw would be more expensive than my caddy or my volvo. i had an 89 allante that had a bad reverse gear in an auto front wheel drive tranny. i had that fixed by the dealership, (valley Cadillac) for a pittance. only 400 bucks out the door. and that was a much more involved job than a clutch would ever be.
I already asked in another thread if any one knew of a place around my area
to have it done, but got no answers. I also tried that estimate pal thing online, and the only hit I got was the speed shop I mentioned. they will do it, but still want a grand cause like you said, they don't wanna do it.
I would have no problem paying a 100$ an hour for trained labor, but I
wont pay 800$ for a job I know will NOT take 8 hours just because some book
says so. like you said, this is a pretty straight forward job. if an experienced
mechanic cant swap a clutch assy in less than 5 hours tops, he isn't worth
his 100/hr pay. unfortunately, there aren't many independent shops in my area. and the ones that do "foreign cars" are even fewer. so, if you have any helpful ideas, i'm listening. i'll even drive it to a nearby city if i have to.
 

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Rule #1... There is no such thing as a cheap repair of a used German car.

Rule #2... When considering the purchase of a used BMW, YOU MUST budget a minimum of $1,500 - $2,000 a year for basic maintenance.
 

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old gearhead
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Discussion Starter #11
wish i had known that. everyone i talked to said the don't break. not that a clutch is a breakdown, but wouldn't think a wearable item as such would be so out of line with other cars. may end up having to sell it if that's the case. i knew it was going to need a clutch when i test drove it. but i sure didn't expect to spend crazy money to replace it. lesson learned.
 

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How many hours labor are they actually quoting you and what is there rate? I'm guessing about 6 hours at $150? That is on the high end of what I've seen for the dealers although the average is probably somewhere around $120 ish.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
this is EXACTLY the issue i have about the price.
their own sign on the wall says their shop labor rate is 90.00/hr. now at that price, the labor should be, (if it takes all of 5 hours), 450$ plus the 388$ for the clutch assy, brings the total before tax to 838. (900 with tax here) now even that number is high because it's a dealership and their always high. But, the real burn is this. their "book" says it's an 8 hour job, and THAT is the number they quote and charge. 8x90= 720$ for just labor. and according to the service manager i spoke to, that IS what will be charged EVEN IF it takes only 4 or 5 hrs to really do. the book says 8 so they charge 8. (as many dealers do) now granted, there are other things like gaskets bolt glue and such, but there's no way those things can equate to 1300$ total. if the total before tax is 1300, and the clutch assy is 388, that's 912$ for labor. if it really takes 8 hours,(which we know it won't) that's 114$/hr labor rate; when their published labor rate is 90! WTF? but assuming it will only really take 5 hrs or less, that equates to 182$/hr to replace a clutch!
 

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Do you know of a local transmission place? If I were to go to a mechanic for most things I would just use my indy, but for something like a clutch that's pretty straight forward I would just go to the local reputable transmission shop.

The hours are definitely out of wack but on the other hand I think $90 is probably the lowest BMW dealer rate I've ever heard!

I did a search for Rochester and The Little Speed Shop popped up, seems to have good reviews. Website says they charge $90 an hour and the founder was a BMW Master Tech for what it's worth. Maybe they would be worth googling and calling for a estimate.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thank you, yes, that is the "speed shop" i have referred to earlier in this thread. the labor rate is the same as the dealer, but i have to provide the clutch assy for them to do it. and their booking 4-5 weeks out. from what i have seen online, i can't get the assy for less than 450$ delivered. but i may have to go that route. i also asked in another thread if anyone knew of a good after market clutch to go this route with. someone told me to look at the gripforce fx stage 2, but that's 600$ and there is some conversion labor involved to go to single mass system, so more labor. LOL, its a never ending circle. all i want is a stock clutch at a reasonable price. and it looks like i ainta gonna get it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
WOW THANK U!
that helps a lot! 100 bucks less than stock parts. only thing is, shouldn't the flywheel be replaced too? they can,t be cut,(milled) and i would HATE to get a phone call 1/2 way through the job saying mine is beat. but this really helps.
as for their quote, they didn't. they just said 90/hr. so i have to assume they don't own a "book" LOL if i go this route, i will post the actual labor quote for you. i will contact them today.
 

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Do you need your flywheel replaced too? Really only way to tell is by looking at it and measuring the thickness to see if it's still in spec. But if the flywheel needs to be replaced as well then you are going to be spending significantly more on the repair.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
ok
i just got off the phone with a woman named jill at "the little speed shop".
we also had an actual mechanic on the line with us during this call. their labor rate is 120$ an hour, and when asked about the clutch system you sent, the mechanic came back with this one
http://gripforce.com/fx-stage-2-clu...23-325-328-330-525-528-530-z3-2-5l-2-8l-3-0l/
he said it is a much better value and a bit more performance over stock, but also a higher cost. 460$ vs 335$. he also said the "standard" clutch swap by them is 1100.00$ including all stock parts THEY need to provide. he says it takes all of the 5.5 to 6 hrs to do. then he said, it may not take so long with the aftermarket clutch cause there is less "puttzing around" without the second mass. so it could be as little as 5 hours. so, i figured 5hrs @120 = 600$ labor (300 less than dealer) and 460 for the clutch system itself totals 1060$ before tax.
this is still expensive, but far more in line with my thinking. 300$ cheaper than the dealer for what i am told is a better clutch. thank you again for the link. any opinions? thoughts are welcome.
 

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I don't know much about the FX clutch kits and flywheels, but what I can say is that many E46 lovers like to get rid of the dual mass so that works. Also the weight on the flywheel is 15.85 lbs so just a hair under the 16 lbs that most recommend for daily drivers so I would think that would be fine. Maybe someone else can chime in as to whether or not this is a reputable manufacturer?

I'd show them this:
http://thelittlespeedshop.com/services/bmw-service/

and see if you could get the labor down a little since their site says $90 on it. Probably won't, but doesn't hurt to ask.
 
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