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Discussion Starter #1
So, what kid of lease deals are folks getting on 2021 X5 45e? Please provide MSRP, selling price, down payment if any, number of months and miles, amount of monthly payment.
 

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Imho, it makes no sense to lease this particular car when you get a $7,500 tax credit if you buy it. If you lease, the leasing Co. receives the credit.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Imho, it makes no sense to lease this particular car when you get a $7,500 tax credit if you buy it. If you lease, the leasing Co. receives the credit.
True but unfortunately BMWs are not great at holding resale value and I was told are not easy to sell once the mileage is close to the warranty expiring.
 

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It all depends on how long you wish to keep your vehicle. Yes, BMWs and most European vehicles are expensive to maintain, especially if you do all of the specified maintenance, but, as a result, the thing will last a long time. Now, you have to decide if the new features/functions, etc. of the newer ones is worth the loss in depreciation.
 

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So, what kid of lease deals are folks getting on 2021 X5 45e? Please provide MSRP, selling price, down payment if any, number of months and miles, amount of monthly payment.
There are so many factors and variations involved with a lease that it is going to be very difficult for you to make sense of other people's deals in order to compare with your offers. But with that said...

I'm currently working quotes and getting initial offers of 4% off of MSRP, MF of .00139, and combined rebates/discounts of about $3k, including $1k loyalty. Residual on 36 mo/10k lease is 55%.

With MSDs I can bring the MF down to .00104, which is 2.5% versus the 3.34% for the base MF number.

For my particular deal, the MSRP is $83,045 with a pre-tax monthly payment of $1030 (with the 7 MSDs). I am not satisfied with this offer though and am working on a greater selling price discount. On my 2017 I was able to get 8% off MSRP so this 4% number is not sitting well with me. I understand this is a new vehicle with high demand in a seller's market, but I may opt to hold out for a little while before accepting this deal.
 

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Imho, it makes no sense to lease this particular car when you get a $7,500 tax credit if you buy it. If you lease, the leasing Co. receives the credit.
Not everyone can take advantage of that tax credit.

Plus, if I purchase the vehicle and only keep it for 3 years, I pay an additional $4000 in sales tax (nearly 9%) on a purchase versus the lease, where I only pay tax on the 45% of the vehicle that is depreciated over the lease.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
There are so many factors and variations involved with a lease that it is going to be very difficult for you to make sense of other people's deals in order to compare with your offers. But with that said...

I'm currently working quotes and getting initial offers of 4% off of MSRP, MF of .00139, and combined rebates/discounts of about $3k, including $1k loyalty. Residual on 36 mo/10k lease is 55%.

With MSDs I can bring the MF down to .00104, which is 2.5% versus the 3.34% for the base MF number.

For my particular deal, the MSRP is $83,045 with a pre-tax monthly payment of $1030 (with the 7 MSDs). I am not satisfied with this offer though and am working on a greater selling price discount. On my 2017 I was able to get 8% off MSRP so this 4% number is not sitting well with me. I understand this is a new vehicle with high demand in a seller's market, but I may opt to hold out for a little while before accepting this deal.
I don't agree. The parameters I specified are enough for me to make sense of the deals.

0.00104 seems very high unless you don't have a high credit score. BMW Financial is offering 0.00099 for people woth good credit history. And yes, 4% off MSRP is not great. I know of people getting between 10%-13% of MSRP including discounts and rebates on prior year X5 models and that's what I shooting for.

P. S. Check out this Edmunds forum for current 2021 X5 lease numbers and deals: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5949528
 

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I don't agree. The parameters I specified are enough for me to make sense of the deals.

0.00104 seems very high unless you don't have a high credit score. BMW Financial is offering 0.00099 for people woth good credit history. And yes, 4% off MSRP is not great. I know of people getting between 10%-13% of MSRP including discounts and rebates on prior year X5 models and that's what I shooting for.

P. S. Check out this Edmunds forum for current 2021 X5 lease numbers and deals: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5949528
LOL - yes, clearly my perfect 850 FICO score isn't enough to be considered as having a "good" credit history by BMW.

Have you gotten that .00099 MF (with no MSDs) from an actual BMW dealer for the 45e recently? The numbers I provided are all within the last week and were on paper.

I don't factor discounts and rebates into the negotiated price or "discount off MSRP" calculation. The dealer has no say in these discounts, they are often regionally-based, and some buyers may not be eligible for the same discounts as others. Comparing "selling price" with those discounts factored in can be very misleading.

FWIW, if I include rebates and discounts into my calculations for "percentage off of MSRP" they come out to 12% off for my 2017 40e, and the first offer on the table from one of the dealers who quoted me for the 45e was over 8% off. So if that is how you want to compare numbers, then this first offer I received on a 45e with ZERO negotiations was already close to that 10% range you mentioned.


I literally laughed at the SA I spoke to the other day when he asked what kind of "monthly payment" I was looking for on this lease....
 

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I don't agree. The parameters I specified are enough for me to make sense of the deals.

0.00104 seems very high unless you don't have a high credit score. BMW Financial is offering 0.00099 for people woth good credit history. And yes, 4% off MSRP is not great. I know of people getting between 10%-13% of MSRP including discounts and rebates on prior year X5 models and that's what I shooting for.

P. S. Check out this Edmunds forum for current 2021 X5 lease numbers and deals: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5949528
Sounds like a pretty weak discount, even for current MY. Could be your approach or perceived value, maybe both
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
LOL - yes, clearly my perfect 850 FICO score isn't enough to be considered as having a "good" credit history by BMW.

Have you gotten that .00099 MF (with no MSDs) from an actual BMW dealer for the 45e recently? The numbers I provided are all within the last week and were on paper.

I don't factor discounts and rebates into the negotiated price or "discount off MSRP" calculation. The dealer has no say in these discounts, they are often regionally-based, and some buyers may not be eligible for the same discounts as others. Comparing "selling price" with those discounts factored in can be very misleading.

FWIW, if I include rebates and discounts into my calculations for "percentage off of MSRP" they come out to 12% off for my 2017 40e, and the first offer on the table from one of the dealers who quoted me for the 45e was over 8% off. So if that is how you want to compare numbers, then this first offer I received on a 45e with ZERO negotiations was already close to that 10% range you mentioned.


I literally laughed at the SA I spoke to the other day when he asked what kind of "monthly payment" I was looking for on this lease....
Yes, 0.00099 is the MF that the dealer is supposed to make available to you if you have good credit - look at the Edmunds forum link I gave you. Your dealer is just trying to make up the selling price discount by giving you a higher MF. Also, I think the discounts are the same for all the regions, at least in the US.

Why don't you like the idea of giving the monthly payment you would like to have to the sales rep? The MF and residuals are usually something they can't go lower on, so let them play with the selling price
 

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"There is another." - Yoda

BMWNA has long offered "BMW Select Financing" for tax-disadvantaged jurisdictions (e.g., Chicago). It's available everywhere, but most gas-powered vehicles see no advantage from it so, in most jurisdictions, the F&I folks don't lead with it unless you ask them to run the numbers for you. But it may make unique sense for the 45e.

Pro: it liberates the entire Federal incentive into the hands of most buyers on Day 1. Well, more accurately, it liberates the entire incentive the following April 15th - but that's close enough. Con: that's baked into the amortization schedule, so you'll be underwater (nominally) for most of the lease-like contract. Pro: if you're a "drive it into the ground" kind of buyer (like me) it's all 100% transparent. It is what it is.

This financing approach is only appropriate if you don't care about being underwater (i.e., in a collision), and you don't care about the big balloon at the end of "BMW Select Financing."

Here's the 2016 thread:
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=916403

I believe most of this thread is still true today, but would welcome corrections.
 

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Bimmerless
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Yes, 0.00099 is the MF that the dealer is supposed to make available to you if you have good credit - look at the Edmunds forum link I gave you. Your dealer is just trying to make up the selling price discount by giving you a higher MF. Also, I think the discounts are the same for all the regions, at least in the US.
So that number came from some Edmunds forum, not anyone affiliated with BMW. I'm not saying that it is wrong or that Edmunds isn't a reliable source, but until someone confirms they actually signed a deal with that rate for a 45e lease in the last few weeks, I am not taking it as gospel.

And FWIW, this wasn't just the MF number I got from "my dealer" (who apparently doesn't value doing business with me for the sixth time enough to give me a MF number that is saved for credit-worthy buyers with credit scores that exceed a perfect value), it was the number I got from several different BMW dealers in my area.


Also, I think the discounts are the same for all the regions, at least in the US.
No, they are not always the same for all regions. Sometimes they are, but BMW does offer special programs and discounts in different places at times. And one of the rebates I was able to get in the 45e lease offers I received were related to tax credits for Colorado. I suspect buyers in other states are not eligible for that.

Why don't you like the idea of giving the monthly payment you would like to have to the sales rep? The MF and residuals are usually something they can't go lower on, so let them play with the selling price
Because the monthly payment without the other real details of the deal doesn't mean anything.

If I want to lease an $80k 45e for $300 a month, any dealer can work out a lease deal that hits that number. Does that mean I got a great deal?? No. With enough of a cap cost reduction from me or a huge disposition fee or end of lease payment, the monthly payment can be any number I want it to be.

Instead, if you negotiate the sale price of the vehicle, fees, and the MF, you can figure out if you're getting a good deal or not. And if not, you can figure out why. Things like down payments only move around where and when you are paying for the vehicle.

That's why I laugh when the first question a sales person asks is "what kind of monthly payment are you looking for?" It is pointless and IMO is a tactic to determine if the buyer has a clue about negotiating a lease deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So that number came from some Edmunds forum, not anyone affiliated with BMW. I'm not saying that it is wrong or that Edmunds isn't a reliable source, but until someone confirms they actually signed a deal with that rate for a 45e lease in the last few weeks, I am not taking it as gospel.

And FWIW, this wasn't just the MF number I got from "my dealer" (who apparently doesn't value doing business with me for the sixth time enough to give me a MF number that is saved for credit-worthy buyers with credit scores that exceed a perfect value), it was the number I got from several different BMW dealers in my area.




No, they are not always the same for all regions. Sometimes they are, but BMW does offer special programs and discounts in different places at times. And one of the rebates I was able to get in the 45e lease offers I received were related to tax credits for Colorado. I suspect buyers in other states are not eligible for that.



Because the monthly payment without the other real details of the deal doesn't mean anything.

If I want to lease an $80k 45e for $300 a month, any dealer can work out a lease deal that hits that number. Does that mean I got a great deal?? No. With enough of a cap cost reduction from me or a huge disposition fee or end of lease payment, the monthly payment can be any number I want it to be.

Instead, if you negotiate the sale price of the vehicle, fees, and the MF, you can figure out if you're getting a good deal or not. And if not, you can figure out why. Things like down payments only move around where and when you are paying for the vehicle.

That's why I laugh when the first question a sales person asks is "what kind of monthly payment are you looking for?" It is pointless and IMO is a tactic to determine if the buyer has a clue about negotiating a lease deal.
Yes, so that's why I asked for the down payment figures if any. But again when I give the monthly payment figure to the dealer, I always specify how much I would pay out of pocket for title, registration, and fees excluding the first month payment which is usually around $1,500.
 

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That's why I laugh when the first question a sales person asks is "what kind of monthly payment are you looking for?" It is pointless and IMO is a tactic to determine if the buyer has a clue about negotiating a lease deal.
My typical parry to that first thrust is that "the monthly payment doesn't particularly matter, since I care more about overall value." That's usually been followed by some polite form of four-square nevertheless, and the house is always more facile at that four-square than the consumer. So I have a spreadsheet.

It's often amazed me how often the sales tower makes "accidents" that a spreadsheet catches with great ease. Curiously, the "accidents" have always favored the house. That's been true through decades, and through every brand I've ever seen.
 

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Yes, so that's why I asked for the down payment figures if any. But again when I give the monthly payment figure to the dealer, I always specify how much I would pay out of pocket for title, registration, and fees excluding the first month payment which is usually around $1,500.
Using a monthly payment is probably the worst way to negotiate for a new vehicle. The best results are obtained by negotiating the pre-incentive sales price for the vehicle. Once that is obtained then you can decide what incentives/rebates apply. There should be no need to even let the dealer know whether you are buying or leasing since the sales price should be the same.

If you are leasing then you can get the details on the fees, MF, residual , etc. Plug them into a lease calculator and make sure your numbers match the ones the dealer is giving.
 

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So that number came from some Edmunds forum, not anyone affiliated with BMW. I'm not saying that it is wrong or that Edmunds isn't a reliable source, but until someone confirms they actually signed a deal with that rate for a 45e lease in the last few weeks, I am not taking it as gospel..
The MF quoted, 0.00099 is the current buy rate from BMW Finance. Anything higher than that is being marked up by the dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Using a monthly payment is probably the worst way to negotiate for a new vehicle. The best results are obtained by negotiating the pre-incentive sales price for the vehicle. Once that is obtained then you can decide what incentives/rebates apply. There should be no need to even let the dealer know whether you are buying or leasing since the sales price should be the same.

If you are leasing then you can get the details on the fees, MF, residual , etc. Plug them into a lease calculator and make sure your numbers match the ones the dealer is giving.
Yes, but if you do your homework and know the MF, the residual, and your target off MSRP percentage, you can calculate the monthly payment and negotiate a number as close to it as possible.
 

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Yes, but if you do your homework and know the MF, the residual, and your target off MSRP percentage, you can calculate the monthly payment and negotiate a number as close to it as possible.
Why go around the block to get to the house next door? The negotiated number in that equation is the sales price, just work on that part and then plug. There is a reason the dealers love to negotiate by monthly payment, it usually works out in their favor since the overwhelming majority of folks so not know how to calculate a lease payment.
 

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The MF quoted, 0.00099 is the current buy rate from BMW Finance.
Yes, I confirmed the .00099 BMWFS buy rate today with one of the dealers I am talking to.

Anything higher than that is being marked up by the dealer.
Agreed, but I don't care if they want to make their money from an inflated MF rate or from less of a negotiated price discount. They need to make their profit somewhere, so if they want it from the financing instead of the sale price, that's their call. I'm just not going to give them both.

As an example, for my particular build and lease deal a change in MF by 1% (basically the difference between .00099 and .00139 MF rates) changes the pre-tax lease payment by ~$50. Changing the sale price by 2% results in almost exactly the same change in the lease payment. Which makes sense as $50/mo for 36 months ~= 2% of $83k (MSRP).
 
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