BimmerFest BMW Forum banner
1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Donkeybike?
Joined
·
3,680 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I heard that both the 325 & 330 will have 3.0l engines but one will be more tuned thus higher hp and torque numbers. I guess this makes sense from a marketing point of view but if I were to buy a 325, I'd prefer a 2.5l that was fully maxed out than a 3.0l knowing it's got gobs of hp hidden in it.
 

·
King of Rear Clunks
Joined
·
12,903 Posts
And the low-power one supposedly still required premium gas. What's the point? The engines can't cost any different to make, either, unless BMW's finding some way to 'bin' them the way they do PC CPUs. Build a bunch. Test em. The ones that test well get the highest rating. Ones that don't get lower ratings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,695 Posts
Kaz said:
And the low-power one supposedly still required premium gas. What's the point? The engines can't cost any different to make, either, unless BMW's finding some way to 'bin' them the way they do PC CPUs. Build a bunch. Test em. The ones that test well get the highest rating. Ones that don't get lower ratings.
I think its pure marketing. Maybe it costs a bit more to produce the "3.0" since it has more complicated intake and a beefier manual transmission. But, if there is a production cost difference its probably less than $100. Anyway, the current M54 2.5 and 3.0 are sort of similar. Yes, there are differences, but they're so similar that the m54 3.0 likely costs very little more to produce.

They should probably just produce 1 higher output engine version for the US, and have the base price be in between what they'd charge for the 2.5 and 3.0 versions. But, I'm sure BMW has done exhaustive analysis on exactly how to eke out every last penny of profit and having 2 different engine versions is part of that strategy :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
SergioK said:
I heard that both the 325 & 330 will have 3.0l engines but one will be more tuned thus higher hp and torque numbers. I guess this makes sense from a marketing point of view but if I were to buy a 325, I'd prefer a 2.5l that was fully maxed out than a 3.0l knowing it's got gobs of hp hidden in it.
:confused: Gobs of hidden hp? Lots of tuners (like Dinan) can barely squeeze out an extra 15 or 20 hp out of the E46 325 and even less out of the 330. What makes you think this new arrangement will be any different?
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10,856 Posts
RichReg said:
:confused: Gobs of hidden hp? Lots of tuners (like Dinan) can barely squeeze out an extra 15 or 20 hp out of the E46 325 and even less out of the 330. What makes you think this new arrangement will be any different?
There's lots of power left... It's just a question of how much you want to do, how much you can spend, and how pleasant you want the driving experience to be. There are 325 engines putting down more power than my M3, for example. NATURALLY ASPIRATED 325 engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,861 Posts
RichReg said:
:confused: Gobs of hidden hp? Lots of tuners (like Dinan) can barely squeeze out an extra 15 or 20 hp out of the E46 325 and even less out of the 330. What makes you think this new arrangement will be any different?
I think the difference is this 325 will be a 3.0L.

James.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
Nick325xiT 5spd said:
There's lots of power left... It's just a question of how much you want to do, how much you can spend, and how pleasant you want the driving experience to be. There are 325 engines putting down more power than my M3, for example. NATURALLY ASPIRATED 325 engines.
Of course there's always the factor of how much you're willing to do. But you can't tell me a NORMALLY ASPIRATED 325 engine making more hp than an M3 is going to be inexpensive to get done. Why does BMW's 3.0 liter engine suddenly carry such a high possibility for what some seem to be implying a "within reach " modification of 30 or 40 hp, when it never did before?
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10,856 Posts
RichReg said:
Of course there's always the factor of how much you're willing to do. But you can't tell me a NORMALLY ASPIRATED 325 engine making more hp than an M3 is going to be inexpensive to get done. Why does BMW's 3.0 liter engine suddenly carry such a high possibility for what some seem to be implying a "within reach " modification of 30 or 40 hp, when it never did before?
I'm not convinced it'll be that easy to get. Most likely you'll need a minimum of cams, a manifold, and software to do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
Nick325xiT 5spd said:
I'm not convinced it'll be that easy to get. Most likely you'll need a minimum of cams, a manifold, and software to do it.
Also, I've heard from a few individuals in the "mechanics" world that Valvetronic engines are MUCH more difficult to modify. Why that would be, I'm not sure.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10,856 Posts
RichReg said:
Also, I've heard from a few individuals in the "mechanics" world that Valvetronic engines are MUCH more difficult to modify. Why that would be, I'm not sure.
Because the engines are much more complex and much more dependent on computer support. In the past you could ypass all the crap they add on (i.e. VANOS), but you'll never be able to bypass valvetronic.
 

·
.oo=||=oo.
Joined
·
1,126 Posts
Nick325xiT 5spd said:
I'm not convinced it'll be that easy to get. Most likely you'll need a minimum of cams, a manifold, and software to do it.
... and continue with a beefier clutch, transmission, and brakes.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10,856 Posts
clutch anyway.

and brake pads.

the current 325 tranny will take a lot more power than it's rated for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
Nick325xiT 5spd said:
Because the engines are much more complex and much more dependent on computer support. In the past you could ypass all the crap they add on (i.e. VANOS), but you'll never be able to bypass valvetronic.
Interesting. Since I'm no mechanic, I can only say that my experience with computers is that they can make things easier. Apparently not the case here, as would some people who expect to pull off these mods could be believing. Also, I heard the new 325's trans isn't able to take much more hp either.....a misnomer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,836 Posts
The transmission in the E90 325 is different and it won't take the HP of the E90 330 setup. Single vs three stage intake also. You'd have to swap the tranny, intake, and reprogram/tune. Cheaper to buy the 330.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10,856 Posts
RichReg said:
Interesting. Since I'm no mechanic, I can only say that my experience with computers is that they can make things easier. Apparently not the case here, as would some people who expect to pull off these mods could be believing.
The computer **** requires a whole different skill set. And you have to force it to work with the new hardware you're installing. It's MUCH easier to rebuild the hardware and be done with it. The computers add an extra layer of complexity on top of that.

...and when you're basically building an engine for WOT, all that garbage that's designed to make the engine more "drivable" is just somethign you need to circumvent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
Nick325xiT 5spd said:
The computer **** requires a whole different skill set. And you have to force it to work with the new hardware you're installing. It's MUCH easier to rebuild the hardware and be done with it. The computers add an extra layer of complexity on top of that.

...and when you're basically building an engine for WOT, all that garbage that's designed to make the engine more "drivable" is just somethign you need to circumvent.
So what you're facing is an ever increasing loss of drivability the more the engine's dependency on the computer is thrown into the mix? That kinda sucks. But does this make the hardware modification any less expensive or more expensive? Or irrelevant?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,836 Posts
RichReg said:
So what you're facing is an ever increasing loss of drivability the more the engine's dependency on the computer is thrown into the mix? That kinda sucks. But does this make the hardware modification any less expensive or more expensive? Or irrelevant?
Might as well drop in a race engine. Probably the same effort with better results.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10,856 Posts
RichReg said:
So what you're facing is an ever increasing loss of drivability the more the engine's dependency on the computer is thrown into the mix? That kinda sucks. But does this make the hardware modification any less expensive or more expensive? Or irrelevant?
No, you've got it backwards. The computer crap is designed to make the car more "drivable." It does in fact do a much better job of producing a compromise engine.

It's just that when one takes it to the extreme, all this hardware just becomes something you have to work around. Valvetronic is incredibly complex because they've gotten rid of the throttles, and now have the vlaves operating under computer control. It actually makes me wonder if the car has cams per se.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10,856 Posts
ObD said:
Might as well drop in a race engine. Probably the same effort with better results.
The problem is that you have to start somewhere with the race engine. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
ObD said:
Might as well drop in a race engine. Probably the same effort with better results.
That's what I was guessing. Better off spending the extra for the 330 then. And since BMW knows many will, they might just make it easier by raising the price less on the 330 & try to make it the value model.
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top