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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, new here. Recently bought an X3 which I love so far. Today's question is about retro-fitting some 7 series seats into a Humvee I am rebuilding.
I have a pair of seats from a wrecked 745Li which have the heat/cool/massage controls.
I can't figure out how to make them come to life. With most of the functions, I'm able to go direct to the power plug and see that the motors are alive.
I have a wiring diagram and have tested the control panel for functions, but don't know how to connect it all or how the controls talk to the motors.
In the car, there was only one harness going to the seat. Part of it was airbags, what's left is these:
-Thick brown w/ stripe - I think this is ground
-Red w/ yellow stripe - I think this is Power
-skinny brown
-real skinny flat blue which has two wires, one striped red

I connected the control panel to 12v power via the red wire in the ribbon connector and tested each wire and button function. There's 12 wires including the red/power. The ribbon connectors from the seat controls were connected to something at the front of the center console with a knob on top. I don't think there was a computer in there, but maybe a circuit board that relayed to the computer under the seat. I thought I would find that each wire got voltage depending on a certain button or knob press, but that wasn't the case.
1- red/pwr
2-gets 12v when any of the seat cushion buttons are pressed
3- nothing
4- always 12v
5-9- nothing
10-12- always 12v

Are any of y'all wiring experts on how these seats are rigged, or have done a transplant like this? Appreciate any help!
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This is the only wire going to the seat- somehow the control communicates all motor functions with what is here.
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
It looks like in the diagram there’s a control module in the console where the ribbon connectors hook up. Below is a picture of the part. Bought one as it looks like it does some sort of translation from the control panels. In the diagram it shows two green wires leaving that module to the computer. Anyone know what those look like, more importantly which pins they hook to in the module, and where they plug into the computer? I don’t recall seeing anything else coming from the car to connect into the seat. Maybe the greens are the blue/blue with red small wire that’s shown in the diagram and is present in the seat wiring harness. Don’t know.
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I intended to put Caprice seats in a base GM. In my case, it didn't work because it expected a keyed memory (with 2 driver memory settings). Turned out there is an aftermarket harness, which gets 99% of the way there. In the absence of memory function, you need a bypass switch - click it, and you have 30 seconds of full adjustment to get comfortable before it freezes there. I outsourced the job to a friend's young son and gave him $100 for a couple of hours labour.
A BMW memory seat is likely to be infinitely more complex as it even liaises with the steering wheel and a completely external switch. And not a binary forward/backward type switch - a control panel where one switch selects the component and another selects the motion direction (4 way, not 2 way). I couldn't even work out the GM seat. My guess is your recipient car needs a body computer from the donor car PLUS all the wiring to it plus any other computers that rely on it.
(Others might know how to make it work - they might not.)
But there's always the nucular option. Everything ultimately reduces to a + and a -. These are fans, heaters, massagers etc (single directional current flow, so on / off switched by SOMETHING) and motors (reversible, switched again externally for current on AND direction). If you go the nucular option and cut all the wiring to every motor, you can test the individually for direction, label them and hook them up to a thick custom harness.
Your heater / cooler etc can go to a traditional 3-speed fan knob assembly with 3 different resistances (or infinitely variable dial if you like). And all the bidirectional motors into a series of generic up/down switches that revert to centre when you let go. Or a more elegant panel taken from a set of 4 window switches, that behave the same way but look like they belong in a car. Any model car will do. Suggest if your windows are controlled from the doors, use a GM or such panel that sits in the centre console.
 

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Transplanting a BMW seat into a non-BMW has been done...I've helped others do this, but....depending on the seat configuration, your success level will differ.

1. If the seat buttons that work via the LIN Bus is mounted on the seat, you will retain seat mechanical adjustability, by applying power and ground to the main harness coming into the seat via the yellow connector. All other functions that have seat functions controlled external from the seat, will be lost...massage, heat, memory, etc.

2. If the seat buttons are mounted on the vehicles door or off seat, transplanting them into a non-BMW vehicle will be impossible. The LIN Bus requires the LIN Bus controller module, and for more modern BMW"s is the JBE, which is not transplantable into a non-BMW vehicle.

If you provide the chassis code of the 745Li, I can provide a definite answer one way or the other, and provide help if it's even remotely possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys. Great info. I’m Not sure on the chassis code but it was a 2003 745li. Originally the nuclear option was the plan, so that’ll go forward if nothing else works. I’m hopeful with the console controller that maybe it’ll all talk to itself. I’ve also seen on a swap YouTube that with the computer going to sleep you can use a device which re-pings it all the time and keeps it awake so I may need one of those
 

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Assuming your host vehicle is a 2003 745Li, then it's an E66, which changed seat wiring at 02/2003 and again at 03/2006. In your case, not knowing what production month of your E66 will make it that much harder.

So my information is based on wiring in the E66 between 02/2003 through 02/2006, and will only be for the left seat...right seat will be similar, but have difference references and wire color codes.

The chassis wiring harness that plugs into the seat module (A187), is as follows should have a primary connector as follows (X275) that is primary battery power, chassis ground and K-CAN bus:

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X275, pin 5 = K_CAN_PL, blue wire, no stripe (0.35 mm diameter core)
X275, pin 6 = K_CAN_PH, blue wire, violet stripe (0.35 mm diameter core)
X275, pin 7 = +12VDC, red wire, brown stripe (4.00 mm diameter core = 30Amp capability)
X275, pin 8 = Chassis Ground, brown wire, no stripe (4.00 mm diameter core = 30Amp capability)

A187 Seat module, front left
Plug connector overview
NumberX-pin, colorDescription
X2758-pin, blackComponent connector Seat module, front left
X1353226-pin, blackComponent connector Seat module, front left
X181785-pin, blackComponent connector Seat module, front left
X135365-pin, naturalComponent connector Seat module, front left
X138964-pin, greenComponent connector Seat module, front left
X1353420-pin, blackComponent connector Seat module, front left
X138984-pin, blueComponent connector Seat module, front left
X139024-pin, greenComponent connector Seat module, front left
X139004-pin, greenComponent connector Seat module, front left

Pin assignments X275
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1Not used
2Not used
3Not used
4Not used
5A/EBus signalCAN-bus connector
6A/EBus signalCAN-bus connector
7ESupply, terminal 30Fuse distribution box
8MGroundGround point

Pin assignments X13532
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal, fan motorFan motor, seat cushion
2APositive supply, fan motorFan motor, seat cushion
3MGround, fan motorFan motor, seat cushion
4MLumbar support, active seat pump, changeover signalLumbar support-active seat drive unit, driver
5MValve block for lumbar support, negativeValve block, front left lumbar support
6Not used
7Not used
8Not used
9Not used
10Not used
11ESignal, pressure sensorDriver's active seat
12Not used
13Not used
14ASignal, fan motorFan motor, backrest
15APositive supply, fan motorFan motor, backrest
16MGround, fan motorFan motor, backrest
17ASignal, valve 3Valve block, front left lumbar support
18ASignal, valve 4Valve block, front left lumbar support
19ASignal, valve 1Valve block, front left lumbar support
20ASignal, valve 2Valve block, front left lumbar support
21ALumbar support, active seat pump, positiveLumbar support-active seat drive unit, driver
22Not used
23MGround Driver's active seatDriver's active seat
24ALumbar support, active seat pump, changeover signalLumbar support-active seat drive unit, driver
25ACam motor, positiveDriver's active seat
26ECam sensor signalDriver's active seat

Pin assignments X18178
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal, rapid heating areaSeat cushion heating, front left
2ESignal, heating area sensorSeat cushion heating, front left
3ESignal, heating area sensorSeat cushion heating, front left
4ASignal, rapid heating areaSeat cushion heating, front left
5ASignal, remaining heating areaSeat cushion heating, front left

Pin assignments X13536
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal, rapid heating areaSeat backrest heating, front left
2ESignal, heating area sensorSeat backrest heating, front left
3ESignal, heating area sensorSeat backrest heating, front left
4ASignal, rapid heating areaSeat backrest heating, front left
5ASignal, remaining heating areaSeat backrest heating, front left

Pin assignments X13896
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal, motor, seat depth adjustmentMotor, seat depth adjustment, front left
2EHall sensor signal, seat depth adjustmentMotor, seat depth adjustment, front left
3ASignal, motor, seat depth adjustmentMotor, seat depth adjustment, front left
4EHall sensor signal, seat depth adjustmentMotor, seat depth adjustment, front left

Pin assignments X13534
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal, motor, seat backrest adjustmentMotor, backrest angle adjustment, front left
2EHall sensor signal, seat backrest adjustmentMotor, backrest angle adjustment, front left
3EHall sensor signal, seat backrest adjustmentMotor, backrest angle adjustment, front left
4EHall sensor signal, backrest head adjustmentMotor, backrest head adjustment, front left
5EHall sensor signal, backrest head adjustmentMotor, backrest head adjustment, front left
6Not used
7Not used
8EHall sensor signal, head restraint adjustmentMotor, head restraint adjustment, front left
9EHall sensor signal, head restraint adjustmentMotor, head restraint adjustment, front left
10EHall sensor signal, backrest width adjustmentMotor, backrest width adjustment, front left
11EHall sensor signal, backrest width adjustmentMotor, backrest width adjustment, front left
12ASignal Motor, backrest width adjustment, front leftMotor, backrest width adjustment, front left
13ASignal, motor, seat backrest adjustmentMotor, backrest angle adjustment, front left
14ASignal, motor, backrest head adjustmentMotor, backrest head adjustment, front left
15ASignal, motor, backrest head adjustmentMotor, backrest head adjustment, front left
16Not used
17Not used
18ASignal, motor, head restraint adjustmentMotor, head restraint adjustment, front left
19ASignal, motor, head restraint adjustmentMotor, head restraint adjustment, front left
20ASignal Motor, backrest width adjustment, front leftMotor, backrest width adjustment, front left

Pin assignments X13898
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal, motor, seat tilt adjustmentMotor, seat tilt adjustment, front left
2EHall sensor signal, seat angle adjustmentMotor, seat tilt adjustment, front left
3ASignal, motor, seat tilt adjustmentMotor, seat tilt adjustment, front left
4EHall sensor signal, seat angle adjustmentMotor, seat tilt adjustment, front left

Pin assignments X13902
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal, motor, seat forward/backward adjustmentMotor, seat forward/backward adjustment, front left
2EHall sensor signal, seat forward/backward adjustmentMotor, seat forward/backward adjustment, front left
3ASignal, motor, seat forward/backward adjustmentMotor, seat forward/backward adjustment, front left
4EHall sensor signal, seat forward/backward adjustmentMotor, seat forward/backward adjustment, front left

Pin assignments X13900
PinTypeDescription /Signal typeConnection /Measuring notes
1ASignal Motor, seat height adjustment, front leftMotor, seat height adjustment, front left
2EHall sensor signal, seat height adjustmentMotor, seat height adjustment, front left
3ASignal Motor, seat height adjustment, front leftMotor, seat height adjustment, front left
4EHall sensor signal, seat height adjustmentMotor, seat height adjustment, front left
 

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In the above diagram, I did not complete the view of your seat module at the X175 connector location, and merely shows a total of 8 seat modules, which should already be intact in your seat, and plug nicely into your seat module (A187).

Here are what the other modules in the chain from your front seat, left, control switch assembly (101016) through your seat module (A187).

  • 101016: Front seat, left, control switch assembly (which you have)
  • A167: Center Console Control Center
  • X10576: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (behind dashboard)
  • A149: Car Access Control
  • X10359: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (floorboard area)

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So the key to your success will be with A167....it converts your button presses to the CAN bus to your seat...

Hope this helped.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wow. Fantastic information. Thanks so much for you time and thoroughness on this. I bought an A167 module on eBay, so I'm glad that's potentially the missing translator. The pin assignments list will be tremendous for if none of it works and I need to go the frankenstein route.
I'm not totally tracking the diagram "brief description of components "of the seat switch diagram. Is it saying basically that if it all plugs in via the A167 module, then It should be able to run the seat? Perhaps with a device that will re-ping the seat computer to keep it awake?
Are the K_CAN busses and A149 unit part of the seat computer in the tray under the seat cushion that's pictured in my post?
Is there a second translator unit, the BZMF located more aft in the console?
Or should I expect it to work with the A167 connected to the seat controls, then to the seat?

Thanks again. This is going to be really neat if it all works!
 

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The following list corresponds to the label (in blue) for each item in the diagram started at the top, going down.
  • 101016: Front seat, left, control switch assembly (which you have)
  • A167: Center Console Control Center
  • X10576: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (behind dashboard)
  • A149: Car Access Control
  • X10359: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (floorboard area)
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks again, i guess i dont understand what a couple of the parts do. Is a wiring node just something inert that connects wires coming from one place to wires going another?

  • 101016: Front seat, left, control switch assembly (which you have)
  • A167: Center Console Control Center
what do these do? Do i need them?—>
  • X10576: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (behind dashboard)
  • A149: Car Access Control
  • X10359: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (floorboard area)
thanks again
 

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Are the K_CAN busses and A149 unit part of the seat computer in the tray under the seat cushion that's pictured in my post?
Is there a second translator unit, the BZMF located more aft in the console?
Or should I expect it to work with the A167 connected to the seat controls, then to the seat?
The BZMF is nothing more than the "switch center" for the rear seats, and since you aren't installing those, you don't need to worry about it. Your front seat BZM's, left seat switch center and right seat switch center (assembly with the seat buttons) all go through the A167 as shown below.

Once you get power and ground on the A167 unit and wired to your seat modules, you should be able to control your seats relatively easy, unless we are using the wrong schematics (remember, I'm using +3/2003, so if you have items from say a 1/2003, I'll need to get you correct wiring diagrams - they shouldn't be too different - pin out may differ slightly)

Slope Rectangle Line Parallel Font


Let me know when you get things wired up.....and hopefully I get help you get this across the finish line....

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Outstanding! Thanks so much. out of town this week but should have the A167 when i get back and can test it out.
one last question i hope,
is there a pin assignment list for the 10387 plug that will come from the A167?
i assume with 4 pins one will be power, ground, and then the greens will go to the tiny double blue/violet wire that goes to the seat module which looks like what is shown with the original diagram at the top.
 

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Thanks again, i guess i dont understand what a couple of the parts do. Is a wiring node just something inert that connects wires coming from one place to wires going another?

  • 101016: Front seat, left, control switch assembly (which you have)
  • A167: Center Console Control Center
what do these do? Do i need them?—>
  • X10576: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (behind dashboard)
  • A149: Car Access Control
  • X10359: Just a wiring node for K-CAN High and Low signals (floorboard area)
thanks again
So anything starting with an "X" is either a connector or a wiring node (using wiring nuts), so X10576 and X10359 are nothing more than twisting two or more wires together - e.g. a wire node.....so because these are wiring nodes, the CAN bus are communications users that are all in parallel...but you need to ensure that the bus is terminated correctly. I'll look this up and post...not sure where those 120 Ohm bus resistors reside in the 7-series... I hope it's not the CAS...but we can add impendence matching resistors on your wires....so not a show stopper.

So in summary, you do not need the last three items listed above....

Cheers
 

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So the CAS module does bridge two PT-CAN instances in the 7-series as well as the wake-up line for the PT-CAN control units....so, not to thwart your effort, your seat modules may always pull electrical power if connected directly to the battery, or if connected to "ignition" battery voltage, may only support seat functions after the key ignition is "active".....

I don't see an issue with the above...it's more of an FYI....we may need to install 120 Ohm buss terminators on your wires when you get things wired up..but before we do this, you may need to measure impedance on the controller CAN pins...and if it returns 150 Ohms, then you are good to go....
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It's ALMOST working.. I think. I am getting the seat control buttons to light up, and can control various seat functions occasionally. Was able to adjust side bolsters, head rest vertical (using a different button than is intended, and activate various motors I can hear in the seat which I can't observe a result. I can't figure out how to close the loop and make it consistent and correct. The button controls constantly reverts back to highlighting the seat bottom control selection. It doesn't appear to be working yet as designed.

Here's how I have it wired.
Red (12v pwr) to The red thick seat, and pin 2 on the A167 unit (tiny blue wire).
Black (12v ground) to the Brown thick seat, and pin 1 on the A167 unit (tiny white/blue wire).
RedViolet/violet ribbon wire both connected to pin 3 or 4 on the A167 ( I think maybe one pin controls driver, the other passenger seat)
The seat controls seem to go to sleep, and I can't consistently figure out what wakes it up. Sometimes it's connecting the blue violet/blue wire back to the board, sometimes but more inconsistently it's power cycle off/on. The seat seems to be responsive to all inputs on the control, but usually will just "bump". For example, if I am trying to move the seat forward, and I hold the button forward, it will "bump" where it gets a split second power hit, and moves about a millimeter. it'll do this over and over but it won't run all the way. This was the same thing that was happening in the junkyard when I connected the wiring harness to my battery. It was only when I went direct to the motor with 12v that it ran the motor fully until power was removed.

I have tried to connect the blue/blueviolet wires individually to pins 3,4 on the board, but nothing happens. It's only when these two wires are bridged together that the seat begins coming to life.

I think it's really close, but can't figure out what to experiment with next. Any ideas?
Thanks again.

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
It seems like the reliable way to wake up the system is touch the kcan wires together- the blue and blue/red ribbon. I suppose that could be done with a Pulse generator. I can't figure out why the controller reverts to the seat bottom, but won't do anything but bump those motors, or why certain controls work, and others "bump" and revert back to the seat bottom. Here's where I'm at currently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Advancing in a new direction. was unable to get the kcan system working reliably. The new plan is to wire relays and switches to each seat function. I have removed the computer and cut the plugs off. Have identified most functions and labeled the control wire pairs which ill build into a relay block soon.
the last odd part is that some motors only engage when i connect them to a 20v drill battery. With 12v they only “bump” where you can tell the electricity hits them, but they dont go into action.
i cant figure out how these motors would require more power since they were in a car with a 12v system. is there some sort of thing that was in the computer module that would have increased the power going to the seat motors?
 

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......the last odd part is that some motors only engage when i connect them to a 20v drill battery. With 12v they only “bump” where you can tell the electricity hits them, but they don't go into action.
i cant figure out how these motors would require more power since they were in a car with a 12v system. is there some sort of thing that was in the computer module that would have increased the power going to the seat motors?
All the motors installed in BMW vehicles work from +12VDC source, and work even with less voltage under no load, and accepts higher voltage as well, which will increase their torque and rate of rotation (some call this speed, but it's really acceleration).

In your case, I would suspect certain parts of your seats are mechanically jammed up. It might be worth it to disassemble the drive function that "bump" and ensure that the mechanical portion of the seat move freely, and clean/lube accordingly. The drive assembly, which has gears in them, can be disassembled and cleaned.....

The "bump" of your motor is due to the fact it cannot produce enough torque to overcome the load.

Cheers
 
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