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Double Bimmers
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Discussion Starter #1
<i>
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-862
</i>
<b>
§ 46.2-862. Exceeding speed limit.

A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who drives a motor vehicle on the highways in the Commonwealth
</b>
(i) at a speed of twenty miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limit where the applicable speed limit is thirty miles per hour or less,

(ii) at a speed of sixty miles per hour or more where the applicable maximum speed limit is thirty-five miles per hour,
<b>
(iii) at a speed of twenty miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limits where the applicable maximum speed limit is forty miles per hour or more, or

(iv) in <u>excess of eighty miles per hour regardless of the applicable maximum speed limit.</u>
</b>

<i>
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-868
§ 46.2-868. Reckless driving; penalties.
</i>
<b>
Every person convicted of reckless driving under the provisions of this article shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
</b>

<i>
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-11
§ 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor.
</i>
<b>
The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are:

(a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, <u>confinement in jail for not more than twelve months</u> and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.
</b>
(b) For Class 2 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than six months and a fine of not more than $1,000, either or both.

(c) For Class 3 misdemeanors, a fine of not more than $500.

(d) For Class 4 misdemeanors, a fine of not more than $250.

For a misdemeanor offense prohibiting proximity to children as described in subsection A of § 18.2-370.2, the sentencing court is authorized to impose the punishment set forth in subsection B of that section in addition to any other penalty provided by law.
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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It's not quite that simple. Note that the statute says: "not more than." That just means that you cannot be sentenced to more than a year prison; it doesn't mean that you will be sentenced to anything close to that. The difference between a felony and a misdemeanor is that a felony has a maximum sentence of more than a year, so by definition a misdemeanor must be limited to not more than 12 months.

Having said all that, Virginia has some of the stupidest traffic laws in the country. Why this place is so draconian, when a good 3/4 of the state is inhabited by nothing more than small woodland creatures, is utterly beyond me. Coming here from Detroit was awful; out in Michigan, the maximum speed is 70, and cruising speeds in the 80-85 range are laughably commonplace. Driving in Virginia is like playing lawn darts in a retirement home; not fast paced, not much fun, and plenty dangerous besides.


CD-55 said:
<i>
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-862
</i>
<b>
§ 46.2-862. Exceeding speed limit.

A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who drives a motor vehicle on the highways in the Commonwealth
</b>
(i) at a speed of twenty miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limit where the applicable speed limit is thirty miles per hour or less,

(ii) at a speed of sixty miles per hour or more where the applicable maximum speed limit is thirty-five miles per hour,
<b>
(iii) at a speed of twenty miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limits where the applicable maximum speed limit is forty miles per hour or more, or

(iv) in <u>excess of eighty miles per hour regardless of the applicable maximum speed limit.</u>
</b>

<i>
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-868
§ 46.2-868. Reckless driving; penalties.
</i>
<b>
Every person convicted of reckless driving under the provisions of this article shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
</b>

<i>
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-11
§ 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor.
</i>
<b>
The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are:

(a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, <u>confinement in jail for not more than twelve months</u> and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.
</b>
(b) For Class 2 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than six months and a fine of not more than $1,000, either or both.

(c) For Class 3 misdemeanors, a fine of not more than $500.

(d) For Class 4 misdemeanors, a fine of not more than $250.

For a misdemeanor offense prohibiting proximity to children as described in subsection A of § 18.2-370.2, the sentencing court is authorized to impose the punishment set forth in subsection B of that section in addition to any other penalty provided by law.
 

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OMGWTFBBQ
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Re: Re: 80 MPH = 12 months jail time in VA

JST said:
Having said all that, Virginia has some of the stupidest traffic laws in the country.
You should come across the river more often. :p Why I let me wife talk me into moving back here from California is beyond me. Reasonable speed limits, for the most part, frequent dismissals if the posted limit wasn't set according to the 85th percentile, and best of all...reasonable enforcement most of the time.
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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Re: Re: Re: 80 MPH = 12 months jail time in VA

clyde325xiT said:


You should come across the river more often. :p Why I let me wife talk me into moving back here from California is beyond me. Reasonable speed limits, for the most part, frequent dismissals if the posted limit wasn't set according to the 85th percentile, and best of all...reasonable enforcement most of the time.
That's what I hear from certain other militant Marylanders. I need to convince myself that I can commute in from Bethesda in a car without killing myself every day, or I need to win the lottery and buy a house in Potomac.
 

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Double Bimmers
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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Re: 80 MPH = 12 months jail time in VA

JST said:
It's not quite that simple. Note that the statute says: "not more than." That just means that you cannot be sentenced to more than a year prison; it doesn't mean that you will be sentenced to anything close to that.
Yes one year is the maximum, and I expect that in most cases people are usually only sentenced with only a fine. One year jail is something to keep in mind when you are defending yourself on a reckless driving charge.

For regular speeding, there is a simple set calculated fee; you pay a specific amount for each mile per hour over the limit. With reckless driving there is no set penalty, the judge must determine the penalty on a case by case basis.

One thing for sure, is that you cannot just mail in a check and pay the fine, your case is going to court! I have to wonder what happens to out of state people, it must be a PITA for them.
 
T

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Really. Enforcement truly is rather reasonable over here.

I'm also extremely lucky.

I do insist that tax policy is part of the equation. In Virginia (a notoriously anti-tax state) the municipalities need to make up revenue thgrough other means, like traffic fines. In Maryland, where they just tax us up front, they truly operate as officers for safety, not as the motorists' enemy. They do run speed, but only in locations where locals have complained about dangerous conditions being caused by speeders.

Even during those highly publicized "zero tolerance on aggressive driving" campaigns, I've never noticed any increased enforcement.

BTW, I regularly get downtown from Rockville (you know where I live) to 19th & I Sts in ~45 minutes. On a good day, it's under 20 minutes. It's rarely over 1 hour.
 
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TD said:


I do insist that tax policy is part of the equation. In Virginia (a notoriously anti-tax state) the municipalities need to make up revenue thgrough other means, like traffic fines. In Maryland, where they just tax us up front, they truly operate as officers for safety, not as the motorists' enemy. They do run speed, but only in locations where locals have complained about dangerous conditions being caused by speeders.

Doesn't Virginia have huge personal property and registration taxes though? I have a friend in NoVa and he's always complaining about that.

Just curious--I don't disagree that it sounds like it's simply a way to raise revenue. I just didn't know that VA was anti-tax.
 

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I got a speeding ticket a month or so ago, it was 20mph over the speed limit (Fairfax county parkway) :cry: .

However the cop didn't give me the reckless, I guess I was lucky :). I'm starting to think about V1, maybe I should get it anyway.

Ohh and get that, I called the county to pay the ticket over the phone and I talked a bit with a lady who processed my payment. She told me that there are 40 people in the county who just answer the phone collect fines
:mad: :mad: ... No wonder why this county is SOOO rich.
 
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atyclb said:


Doesn't Virginia have huge personal property and registration taxes though? I have a friend in NoVa and he's always complaining about that.

Just curious--I don't disagree that it sounds like it's simply a way to raise revenue. I just didn't know that VA was anti-tax.
Virginia, as a whole, is one of the most conservative Republican states anywhere. They are willing to let their school systems and roads all go to shit rather than raise taxes. And they are so beholden to the tobacco companies that the cigarette tax in Virginia is the lowest in the country at $0.03 a pack (I think Maryland just raised their tobacco tax to $1.62 a pack- I don't smoke so I'm not positive). Virginia is freezing salaries and cutting budgets at their state universities and a hot local issue recently was whether to allow Northern Virginia (the one liberal part of the state) to tax themselves a supplemental sales tax and use it for local roads and schools. The locals predominantly want this extra tax while the state government is largely opposed. It's almost farcical.

The last governor ran on a pledge to repeal the personal property tax (which generated LOTS of state revenue) and insisted on pushing it through in spite of the damage it did.

Side note- THE NRA is also so strong in Virginia that they successfully blocked laws that would have banned guns in schools or rec centers. 'Gotta be able to protect yourself, you know.

And in Virginia, until Sept 11th, you were 10x as likely to see a Confederate flag than a US flag.
 
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TD said:


Virginia, as a whole, is one of the most conservative Republican states anywhere. They are willing to let their school systems and roads all go to shit rather than raise taxes. And they are so beholden to the tobacco companies that the cigarette tax in Virginia is the lowest in the country at $0.03 a pack (I think Maryland just raised their tobacco tax to $1.62 a pack- I don't smoke so I'm not positive). Virginia is freezing salaries and cutting budgets at their state universities and a hot local issue recently was whether to allow Northern Virginia (the one liberal part of the state) to tax themselves a supplemental sales tax and use it for local roads and schools. The locals predominantly want this extra tax while the state government is largely opposed. It's almost farcical.

The last governor ran on a pledge to repeal the personal property tax (which generated LOTS of state revenue) and insisted on pushing it through in spite of the damage it did.

Side note- THE NRA is also so strong in Virginia that they successfully blocked laws that would have banned guns in schools or rec centers. 'Gotta be able to protect yourself, you know.

And in Virginia, until Sept 11th, you were 10x as likely to see a Confederate flag than a US flag.
gotcha--

You have to remember that I live in Texas--no personal property tax, $50 to register your car (not based on car's value), and....

NO STATE INCOME TAX....:thumb:
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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TD said:


Virginia, as a whole, is one of the most conservative Republican states anywhere. They are willing to let their school systems and roads all go to shit rather than raise taxes. And they are so beholden to the tobacco companies that the cigarette tax in Virginia is the lowest in the country at $0.03 a pack (I think Maryland just raised their tobacco tax to $1.62 a pack- I don't smoke so I'm not positive). Virginia is freezing salaries and cutting budgets at their state universities and a hot local issue recently was whether to allow Northern Virginia (the one liberal part of the state) to tax themselves a supplemental sales tax and use it for local roads and schools. The locals predominantly want this extra tax while the state government is largely opposed. It's almost farcical.

The last governor ran on a pledge to repeal the personal property tax (which generated LOTS of state revenue) and insisted on pushing it through in spite of the damage it did.

Side note- THE NRA is also so strong in Virginia that they successfully blocked laws that would have banned guns in schools or rec centers. 'Gotta be able to protect yourself, you know.

And in Virginia, until Sept 11th, you were 10x as likely to see a Confederate flag than a US flag.

The personal property (a.k.a. "car tax") is a joke, but the politics of the repeal are a bit more complex than that. Gilmore ran for governor (and won) on a pledge to repeal the car tax. The car tax is actually not administered by the state, but is instead overseen (and collected) by local authorties (county or city, depending on where you live). Before the "repeal," it was about 4 percent of vehicle value, per year. Because nothing in politics is ever simple, in order for the state governor to repeal the locally administered car tax, the state government had to set up a fund to reimburse the local authorities for the lost revenue. And because heaven forbid we repeal a tax cleanly (as that might give the wealthy a disproportionate break), the car tax was not fully repealed. Any car worth more than 20K is stilled taxed on the value of the car over 20K. And because you can't do anything quickly in government, the "repeal" took place over several years, with the amount the state government subsidized getting larger each year.

But wait, there's more. In its wisdom, the Commonwealth has decided that it is unable to exercise its democratic responsibility unfettered, and so the governor of our "great" commonwealth is limited to one term. Further, in order to get the "repeal" passed, one of the compromises was that the phase-out would be put on hold if the state budget was in the red.

So, now Mr. Gilmore exits stage left, as his four years are up. The recession has put the state budget into the toilet, meaning that the final step of the phase-out has been delayed, and without Gilmore around, that delay is very likely to be permanent. And instead of "no car tax," what we have is "75% of the car tax on the first 20K of the vehicle's value will be subsidized by the state, but you have to pay the remaining 25% plus 100% of the tax on any portion of the vehicle's value over 20K, and you still have to buy those stupid stickers to put on your front window." Which, as you will agree, is not as catchy a political slogan.

At least it's all deductable.

Anyway, I wouldn't characterize VA as anti-tax. From an East Coast, big government, what-did-you-make-OK-send-it-in perspective its tax rates are fairly low, but compared to states in the Midwest it feels like living in a Communist regime.

Oh, and WRT the cigarette tax: Yes, VA is beholden to the tobacco lobby. But I've always found it downright offensive that states like Maryland ***** and moan in court about the increased Medicare costs from smokers, and then turn around and turn tobacco into one of the state's most important revenue streams. Moreover, tobacco taxes are some of the most regressive taxes possible. Raising "sin" taxes to force low-income drug addicts to pay a higher share of state expenses doesn't seem like good public policy to me...
 

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If you get nailed with reckless driving in Virginia, get a lawyer. Remember that this isn't just a speeding ticket. It's a misdemeanor at a CRIMINAL court. If you show up without a lawyer, you're screwed.
 
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JST said:



The personal property (a.k.a. "car tax") is a joke, but the politics of the repeal are a bit more complex than that. Gilmore ran for governor (and won) on a pledge to repeal the car tax. The car tax is actually not administered by the state, but is instead overseen (and collected) by local authorties (county or city, depending on where you live). Before the "repeal," it was about 4 percent of vehicle value, per year. Because nothing in politics is ever simple, in order for the state governor to repeal the locally administered car tax, the state government had to set up a fund to reimburse the local authorities for the lost revenue. And because heaven forbid we repeal a tax cleanly (as that might give the wealthy a disproportionate break), the car tax was not fully repealed. Any car worth more than 20K is stilled taxed on the value of the car over 20K. And because you can't do anything quickly in government, the "repeal" took place over several years, with the amount the state government subsidized getting larger each year.

But wait, there's more. In its wisdom, the Commonwealth has decided that it is unable to exercise its democratic responsibility unfettered, and so the governor of our "great" commonwealth is limited to one term. Further, in order to get the "repeal" passed, one of the compromises was that the phase-out would be put on hold if the state budget was in the red.

So, now Mr. Gilmore exits stage left, as his four years are up. The recession has put the state budget into the toilet, meaning that the final step of the phase-out has been delayed, and without Gilmore around, that delay is very likely to be permanent. And instead of "no car tax," what we have is "75% of the car tax on the first 20K of the vehicle's value will be subsidized by the state, but you have to pay the remaining 25% plus 100% of the tax on any portion of the vehicle's value over 20K, and you still have to buy those stupid stickers to put on your front window." Which, as you will agree, is not as catchy a political slogan.

At least it's all deductable.

Anyway, I wouldn't characterize VA as anti-tax. From an East Coast, big government, what-did-you-make-OK-send-it-in perspective its tax rates are fairly low, but compared to states in the Midwest it feels like living in a Communist regime.

Oh, and WRT the cigarette tax: Yes, VA is beholden to the tobacco lobby. But I've always found it downright offensive that states like Maryland ***** and moan in court about the increased Medicare costs from smokers, and then turn around and turn tobacco into one of the state's most important revenue streams. Moreover, tobacco taxes are some of the most regressive taxes possible. Raising "sin" taxes to force low-income drug addicts to pay a higher share of state expenses doesn't seem like good public policy to me...
I know that the "car tax" is much more complicated than I stated it, but I didn't want to go into that level of detail. But every time I think about Virginia's car tax, I think back to a wedding reception I was at a few years back. It was at the wedding of my sister-in-law and among my wife's family's friends are the Saslaws, as in Richard Saslaw D-Fairfax, Obstructionist.

Well, my wife and I were at the same table as the Saslaws and I got into a conversation with Dick. The car tax repeal was a hot topic at the time as the roll-back had not yet begun. Since he was/is a Democrat, I figured making a comment cynically mocking Gilmore's plan was safe. I simply commented how the revenue being raised byt he tax was definitely being spent and how did anyone expect to cut this tax without raising other taxes (political suicide) or cutting services/capital improvements (also political suicide). I mean, to me, that's kind of obvious.

Well, ever the politician (and sounding a lot like a Reagan Republican) he suggested that neither would be necessary as the state would experience enough growth that the total tax revenue would not actually go down and no cuts or tax increases would be necessary. While it was a "dry" wedding and I had not had a drop to drink, I still could not stifle a hearty laugh (which I do not believe he has forgiven me for yet). Then I said, "Oh-kaaay... We'll see..."

Now, recently he's in the news as the major obstactle to the supplemental sales tax referendum. I suspect he's been spending too much time in Richmond.
 

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In the DC area, the cops in MD are very reasonable, I've found. That said, in St. Mary's County, drive SSSSLLLLOOOOWWWLLLLYYYY. I got a ticket for 55 in a 50 there, once, and you can bet it was due to the Bimmer. (That I was even younger, half Chinese and have a surname of "Rubenstein" likely didn't help, either.)
 

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Many other states have personal property tax on cars. When my 330xi comes in, I will owe the state of Colorado about $850 for the first year. Yes, it is deductible on income tax, but considering that the tax bill on my quarter-million dollar house last year was less than $2000, the car tax seems silly. Definitely a tax on those who can afford to drive nice cars. I did enjoy living in Texas with no personal property tax and no state income tax, but alas I could not truly appreciate it as I was in college and had zero tax liability anyway.

Anyway, speeding tickets in Colorado are quite reasonable. I got one for 93 in a 75 and the fine was only $56.00!

Someone mentioned buying a V1 for Virginia...aren't radar detectors VERY ILLEGAL in VA???
 

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ticket

I got a speeding in Va. last Nov. they got me for $3.00 for every mile over the limit and $30.00 court cost $87.00 total. now thats not bad campared to Fla. Again 19 miled over the speed limit and in a contruction zone, total $265.00
 

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Elected by grace
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Speaking of traffic offenses, here in Indianapolis there is currently (when isn't there) major destruction work being done on many sections of the loop that encircles the city (I-465).

There are posted signs with penalties for the following offenses:

Speeding $135
Reckless Driving $135
Tailgating $135

These sections are heavily and very strictly enforced. It's not unusual to see 4 or 5 cars pulled over to the shoulder at one time as if queing up to a drive-thru window ("Yes, um, I'll have one speeding ticket and please throw in some extra salt packets to rub into my wound").

It's conceivable that some pitiful fool (I know, I really shouldn't be so hard on myself :)) can pull off this unenviable trifecta and be saddled with $405 in fines, plus mega-points on your travel dance card.

My naturally fertile mind immediately began to ponder this and I've managed to come up with the following new slogan that I am considering presenting to the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce:

Come to Indianapolis - It really is a 'Fine' city!
 

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IndyMike said:
Speaking of traffic offenses, here in Indianapolis there is currently (when isn't there) major destruction work being done on many sections of the loop that encircles the city (I-465).

There are posted signs with penalties for the following offenses:

Speeding $135
Reckless Driving $135
Tailgating $135

These sections are heavily and very strictly enforced. It's not unusual to see 4 or 5 cars pulled over to the shoulder at one time as if queing up to a drive-thru window ("Yes, um, I'll have one speeding ticket and please throw in some extra salt packets to rub into my wound").

It's conceivable that some pitiful fool (I know, I really shouldn't be so hard on myself :)) can pull off this unenviable trifecta and be saddled with $405 in fines, plus mega-points on your travel dance card.

My naturally fertile mind immediately began to ponder this and I've managed to come up with the following new slogan that I am considering presenting to the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce:

Come to Indianapolis - It really is a 'Fine' city!
LOL :lmao:
 

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OMGWTFBBQ
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TD said:
Really. Enforcement truly is rather reasonable over here.
Whoops...When I was talking about reasonable enforcement, I was referring to CA, not MD. Then again, compared to VA, MD is a lot more reasonable.

Then, somehow, someone seems to have changed the subject to tax policies. CA has its own set of issues, mostly stemming from Prop 13 (IMO). It's still a better place to live, though, so long as you can afford it.
 
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