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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Acura (TL-S), Infinity (G-35), Nissan (Altima, Maxima), Mazda (Z-35),... and now Honda ups the 3-series.
The new 2003 Accord will have a 3.0L 6-cylinder capable of [email protected] rpm, 212 [email protected] rpm (isn't that almost e36 M3 territory?). All that using regular fuel, costing a lot less and offering legendary Honda reliability.
The 3-series is desperately in need of some extra ponnies.
Competition is good for consumers.
 

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Horsepower is just the beginning of what makes a car fun to drive IMO.

Have you read the review of the new Accord Edmunds just released? Not real complimentary. :p Regardless of the horsepower, it drives like just another family sedan.

Titled: Wherein "Sporty Accord" Proves to be an Oxymoron

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/68223/article.html
 

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JetBlack330i said:
Acura (TL-S), Infinity (G-35), Nissan (Altima, Maxima, Z-35),... and now Honda ups the 3-series.
The new 2003 Accord will have a 3.0L 6-cylinder capable of [email protected] rpm, 212 [email protected] rpm (isn't that almost e36 M3 territory?). All that using regular fuel, costing a lot less and offering legendary Honda reliability.
The 3-series is desperately in need of some extra ponnies.
Competition is good for consumers.
Hell, GM has been ahead of BMW since they started making cars. The 3.8 SC engine in the Grand Prix, Regal, Bonneville, etc. has always made scary amounts of horsepower and truly frightening amounts of low-end torque. On the next Grand Prix it's even up to 280 horses. :yikes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Re: Another one on BMW's heels

Mystikal said:

Hell, GM has been ahead of BMW since they started making cars. The 3.8 SC engine in the Grand Prix, Regal, Bonneville, etc. has always made scary amounts of horsepower and truly frightening amounts of low-end torque. On the next Grand Prix it's even up to 280 horses. :yikes:
The point is clearly not "who has the most power".
We are talking about cars that can seriously challenge the 330.
Car that you'd seriously consider buying (and be seen in one).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
PhilH said:
Horsepower is just the beginning of what makes a car fun to drive IMO.

Have you read the review of the new Accord Edmunds just released? Not real complimentary. :p Regardless of the horsepower, it drives like just another family sedan.

Titled: Wherein "Sporty Accord" Proves to be an Oxymoron

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/68223/article.html
True... but Honda did benchmark BMW:
"Honda wanted the Accord's steering to be smooth, linear and natural in feel. It has succeeded in this respect, needing only more feedback to be transmitted from the road surface to the driver's hands to match BMW for steering feel and response."
It may have ultimately failed to surpass the 3-series, but that wasn't the design goal (as opposed to, say, the G-35).
To achieve all that at about *HALF* the price of a 330, I'd say that's quite an accomplishment.
The point is... BMW should have increased HP/torque for the 2003 model. Now it will have to play catch up as it's outpowered by even family sedans.
 

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This is almost as pointless as comparing who's car does 0-60 the quickest. In the end, it doesn't matter who has more horses. I agree with PhilH. Horsepower is only part of what makes a car enjoyable to drive, the other things are why we all own BMW's; superb handling & tight steering, legendary engines, overall driving dynamics, etc. Honda will still just be another family mobile. Also, as Hack has stated before, don't expect HP to increase before the new line of engines come out. I'm curious as to what size tire will be fitted on this car that will have 240 HP. Possibly 215/50 R16's. :thumbdwn:

Don't get me wrong, Honda makes great, reliable cars. They are often pretty bland to look at and only so-so in driving characteristics (excluding the S2000). BMW's are just fun to drive and are pleasing to the eyes (excluding the E65) - sorry Nate. :p
 

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I totally agree with PhilH and Ack.. In my opinon the true measure of a car is not how much horsepower, or how quick the 0-60 time. (Im not saying that stuff is not important) I think its really a combination of all aspects of the car. I just dont think that its very fair to judge any car on Horsepower alone there are so many other factors to consider and Horsepower is only a piece of the puzzle... Bottom line if I dont care if your honda, acura, or nissan can smoke me in a race but I have the little blue and white roundel and that means a hell of a lot more to me than simply how fast my car is.....(by that comment I mean that the heritage, quality, engineering, and driving dynamics of a BMW mean a lot more than how fast the car is) but thats just my opinion:thumbup:
 
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The HP only matters to someone wanting to play the stat game. And it appears that the Japanese manufacturers like to play the stat game with their cars. Why are all of these 240 and 260 HP cars still slower to 60 than the 225 HP 330i? And why can the 325 take an IS300?

But, to echo what's alreaady been said repeatedly, the enjoyment of a BMW is not really about HP. It's feel. And since feel can't be numerically quantified to appear on a spec sheet, the Japanese continue to not pay much attention to it (although the G35 and 350Z sound like they might have some).

The Edmunds review, in it's last sentence or so, pretty much sums it up.
 

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A friend of mine at work just got a Volvo S80. He says he has 3-days to make up his mind, because his is thinking about a S60.

I say to him "what's the difference?" S80 vs. S60.

He explains the S60 is 3 inches shorter and performs equal to a 330.:)
 

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HP really, in my eyes, only matters to the A, young who dont know better, and just likes to hammerfoot, and b, the truly unpassionate car enthusiast. There is alot more to the total package than HP. And when we get down to it, 330ci 0-60 times, still beat *most& other competitors hands down. But that aside who cars, noone, including mercedes, makes a better car to drive all around. is there more class in a benzo... sure, but it is not the vehicle... But wait, lets get down to the real nitty gritty.... what the majority of people care about is looks... in which case, BMW, is without competition. Honda is only fooling themselves if they think they are taking 3 series consumers away, they are marketing themselves vs the passat, and have publicly said so... I am not sure where the, accord shoots for 3 series thing came from, but accord, is going down in flames... has anyone seen the new accord... yeahs it is absolutely hideous...
 

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dredmo said:
...But wait, lets get down to the real nitty gritty.... what the majority of people care about is looks... in which case, BMW, is without competition.
If this is the real reason why BMW is experiencing record sales, and Bangle's "visionary" designs trickle down through the rest of the range, then BMW will be in trouble in a few years.

I personally enjoy the driving experience of my car even more than its exceptional looks. Would I still have bought it if it was ugly? :dunno: However, I haven't bought an ugly car yet, and looks matter quite a bit to me.
 

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shifty said:
its not that its a better car..its just gonna be embarrassing getting beaten by a grandma at the stoplight:lmao:
The thing is with these cars is that the people that buy them probably aren't even into stoplight drag races. Plus, I doubt they'll sell all that many 6-speed V6 Accord coupes. The vast majority of Accord sales will of course be 4-cylinder automatic sedans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for BMW boosting the hp of the 325 and 330. However, as TD pointed out, BMW's horses are stronger than other horses as it is, producing better times than higher hp rivals right now.

I have to add that there's no guarantee that a 6-speed coupe will break into the 5s. The IS300 didn't benefit as much as expected from its manual transmission.
 

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That the 3er is the target for all other manufacturers is great flattery. "It drives like a 3 series" is one of the best compliments that a car can get (even the 3 series has trouble getting this some times as E36 purists will attest).

I don't think the 330 needs any more ponies to stay competitive, however, if they were to add 30-50 hp without hitting the M3 price point they could probably get a few 330 owners (like me) to upgrade!!

Otherwise I love mine and I am keeping it!! And I HAVE driven all the others...

A.
 

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I read the Edmund's review of the Accord, and was basically expecting them to say what they did. No matter what you do to jazz up a front wheel drive car that's designed as a family car, it's still going to be a front wheel drive family car.

The new Nissans (350Z and G35 coupe), on the other hand, seem to be a real challenge. Take the 350Z Track model. 280 HP, rear wheel drive, good weight distribution, stiff chassis, Brembo brakes, LSD (TD are you listening), smaller (but suprisingly not lighter than the E46). This is a real, honest to god sports car, which, by the way, the E46 isn't. It's point of comparison shouldn't be the E46. It should be the new 911, which it comes within striking distance of.
 

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Honda and Nissan have been natural enemies since birth. The new Accord is directly targeting the Altima. That's why Honda is trying to position it as being 'sporty', so it can counter the Altima which really is sporty.

The Accord and the E46 don't really compete against each other. The new 1/2 series on the other hand...
 

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Whoa! This is freaking me out! Either there's some wierd design gestalt going on in Japan or, the Honda desiners are being phycically influenced by there kids Pokemon collections.
 

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Double Bimmers
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Nobody else thinks BMW needs to catch-up to the Volvo S60?;)
 

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CD-55 said:
Nobody else thinks BMW need to catch-up to the Volvo S60?;)
I've never driven one, but from everything I've read...no.

An excerpt from a recent Road & Track on the S60 T5:

The T5 is fast, comfortable and distinctive-looking. So why is this car well down on our list?

Well, it's the chassis. Of all our sports sedans, the Volvo is the least sporty in its suspension tuning, and in this fast-moving group it just feels the loosest, softest and most flappable. In hard corners, it has more pitch and body roll than the others, and on acceleration out of a corner it exhibits noticeable torque-steer to the right, and on throttle lift, it twitches back to the left. Steering feels a bit numb and overboosted as well, and has a tendency to "dolly" into corners on turn-in, shopping-cart style.
 
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