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Discussion Starter #1
The other day, I was driving my car when someone pulled out in front of me, and instead of the precollision warning, the car gave me an error message of some sort telling me the system was unavailable. Now, I managed to avoid the accident on my own, but it still worried me that when I might have needed it, the system didn't work. I took it to the dealer but they couldn't find me any codes, instead giving it back without repair, having told me some BS about the the sensors needing to be clean and unobstructed and weather being a factor. I had told them going in it was a clear day, the car was clean, the sensor was unobstructed, and the warning was triggered when the system should have activated. The service advisor said that even light shining in the camera could trigger that, but I'm not buying it. Anyone have any problem like this?
 

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02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 98K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
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Mine went off in full force today. The car ahead braked hard in the freeway. I noticed instantly and would brake hard myself, but before I started moving my right foot, the car had already matched the speed. I had heard the beeping several times, all spot on.
 

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Nuclear engineer
02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 98K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
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I ended up filing that report. What concerns me is a lot of people could have whatever the problem is and never know it until they are in an accident.
I am sure that the NHTSA investigators are at least that smart, particularly for automatic braking being as controversial as it is.

I expect that you were warned not to rely on the automatic system.
 

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Does your car have Driving Assistance Plus w/ Automatic Cruise Control? If not, then automatic braking relies solely on the cameras and can be impacted by glare and etc.

The manual warns of situations where it may not perform well or at all.
 

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///Monkeyazz Duck
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Wow. Instead of being grateful for a system that might save your bacon some day, we're now at the point where we expect those systems to work flawlessly, 100% of the time, even if dirt, salt or road kill is covering the sensors? Why? So we can eat, text, apply make-up and trim our beards instead of keeping our eyes on the road?
 

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Wow. Instead of being grateful for a system that might save your bacon some day, we're now at the point where we expect those systems to work flawlessly, 100% of the time, even if dirt, salt or road kill is covering the sensors? Why? So we can eat, text, apply make-up and trim our beards instead of keeping our eyes on the road?
Seems quite the over reaction by you. The OP simply stated the system did not appear to work when it should, under conditions he felt were appropriate. The reasons it may not have worked, as explained by the dealer, did not fit his circumstances, so he felt it should be reported.

The OPs report, and others if reported, may result in improvements or a fix to the system. Or it could be simply a fluke. Either way, I don't see a problem here.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Does your car have Driving Assistance Plus w/ Automatic Cruise Control? If not, then automatic braking relies solely on the cameras and can be impacted by glare and etc.

The manual warns of situations where it may not perform well or at all.
I do have Driving Assistance Plus w/ Automatic Cruise Control. Even so, it was not a situation where glare seemed likely, the sun was mostly overhead. I probably haven't had the dashcam footage overridden yet, I could check to see if the incident was caught. The car was clean and I checked the sensors for obstruction, but the car didn't have so much as a dead bug on it. There is no damage to the bumper and I recall no impacts to the sensor area. The road was uncomplicated, with no signage or trees up against it and it had a very minor curve to it. It was about as straight forward of a situation as you could present the system and it still conked out at the critical moment. I braked and bore right and the other car went for the outside lane, so it was avoided without too much fuss, but that is down to luck.

As for the manual, I don't have one. The car didn't come with one, oddly enough. I figured as a CPO that was supposed to have one, but hey, the dealer I bought it from isn't close.

Wow. Instead of being grateful for a system that might save your bacon some day, we're now at the point where we expect those systems to work flawlessly, 100% of the time, even if dirt, salt or road kill is covering the sensors? Why? So we can eat, text, apply make-up and trim our beards instead of keeping our eyes on the road?
I expect the system to function as designed under what were as nearly of ideal circumstances as possible. The front of the car is in perfect shape, there was no obstruction of any kind on any of the sensors, and it was good weather on a simple road design with no apparent complicating factors in the situation. I don't eat in the car, I don't text, I don't trim my beard. I keep it pristine and focus on the drive. Shame on you for trying to make a stranger feel guilty for wanting their car's safety systems to function properly.

I am sure that the NHTSA investigators are at least that smart, particularly for automatic braking being as controversial as it is.

I expect that you were warned not to rely on the automatic system.
I expect so, they should have a handle on it. I was not warned about relying on the system, but I've seen enough AI failures to know better regardless.
 

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I do have Driving Assistance Plus w/ Automatic Cruise Control. Even so, it was not a situation where glare seemed likely, the sun was mostly overhead. I probably haven't had the dashcam footage overridden yet, I could check to see if the incident was caught. The car was clean and I checked the sensors for obstruction, but the car didn't have so much as a dead bug on it. There is no damage to the bumper and I recall no impacts to the sensor area. The road was uncomplicated, with no signage or trees up against it and it had a very minor curve to it. It was about as straight forward of a situation as you could present the system and it still conked out at the critical moment. I braked and bore right and the other car went for the outside lane, so it was avoided without too much fuss, but that is down to luck.
The driver for my question was due to how the system works as well. It uses both the Windshield Camera and Radar (if you have Driving Assistance Plus) or just the Windshield Camera.

Did it note why it was unavailable?

Also, I'd review the manual to get a better idea of when the system would note that it is unavailable. It notes a variety of scenarios where the system may not function. This is from my manual.

Screen Shot 2020-07-05 at 12.59.10 AM.jpg

As for the manual, I don't have one. The car didn't come with one, oddly enough. I figured as a CPO that was supposed to have one, but hey, the dealer I bought it from isn't close.
You can access BMW manuals online @ https://www.bmwusa.com/owners-manuals.html

You can also install the Driver's Guide App and access the manual on your smartphone as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The driver for my question was due to how the system works as well. It uses both the Windshield Camera and Radar (if you have Driving Assistance Plus) or just the Windshield Camera.

Did it note why it was unavailable?


You can access BMW manuals online @ https://www.bmwusa.com/owners-manuals.html

You can also install the Driver's Guide App and access the manual on your smartphone as well.
I appreciate that, that will be useful. There was no notation as to why it was unavailable and the dealer said there was no code. There was paintwork on the front bumper, right on the very corner, it was touched up after a scuff from a careless driver in a parking lot. That may be worth looking at, although I was under the impression the work wasn't near any sensors.
 

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///Monkeyazz Duck
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I stand by my comments. There have been numerous fatalities in Teslas when folks were watching movies, getting road head, or otherwise distracted while behind the wheel. Last year, the Boston Globe posted video of a driver and passenger fast asleep in their Model S, doing 70 mph on the Mass Pike. The Owner's Manuals are full of warnings and caveats, but folks ignore them and then get lathered up when the systems don't work the way they feel they should.

In the OP's case, he's admitted that he hasn't even read the manual, and that there was paint work done to the bumper, which also indicates the bumper had been hit. (The way he described the paint work, it sounds like it was at the outside corner of the bumper, where radar sensors are located). There may have been other factors in play: a plastic bag blown up from the highway and covering a sensor, bits of asphalt from road repaving, etc. The key point is that the system is designed to work well under optimum conditions, but there are all sorts of external factors that make things go sideways fast.

In the OP's first post, he stated the so-called problem occurred "when someone pulled out in front of me". Here's what the owner's manual says:

Swerving vehicles

A vehicle driving in front of you is not detected until it is completely within the same lane as your vehicle.

If a vehicle driving ahead of you suddenly swerves into your lane, the system may not be able to automatically restore the selected distance.... When a vehicle driving ahead of you is reliably detected, the system requests that the driver intervene by braking and carrying out evasive maneuvers, if needed.​

The manual also reinforces that the braking must be initiated by the driver, and that the system sensitivity is determined by the iDrive settings you have selected (the OP does not share what his selected settings were). I can find NO indication in the manual that the system is designed to brake the vehicle independently without ACC engaged, though the OP seems to believe it should.

OP, you do bear personal responsibility, whether you care to admit it or not. Like the sleeping Tesla driver, you may be placing too much faith in emerging technology, then blaming the failure entirely on the vehicle. It's fine to do that at a cocktail party, but when you do that on an internet board full of enthusiasts, there's a good chance you will be called out on that.

EDIT: Here's what the OP had to say about ACC on a different thread in this forum. Emphasis added:

For those with ACC issues, it's also possible there has been a front end impact. Even a light tap with no visible damage can throw the sensors off and affect how well they work, even without throwing a code. Where it is on the bumper, I worry about even the front catching a parking stop possibly being enough to throw it off. I'm not sure if the sensor is floating in the bumper and attached to the radiator support or if it's attached to the bumper.​
 

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Nuclear engineer
02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 98K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
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I followed early development of AEB and BMW was harshly criticized for requiring driver's initiation and allowing suicide by bridge abutment.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I stand by my comments. There have been numerous fatalities in Teslas when folks were watching movies, getting road head, or otherwise distracted while behind the wheel. Last year, the Boston Globe posted video of a driver and passenger fast asleep in their Model S, doing 70 mph on the Mass Pike. The Owner's Manuals are full of warnings and caveats, but folks ignore them and then get lathered up when the systems don't work the way they feel they should.

In the OP's case, he's admitted that he hasn't even read the manual, and that there was paint work done to the bumper, which also indicates the bumper had been hit. (The way he described the paint work, it sounds like it was at the outside corner of the bumper, where radar sensors are located). There may have been other factors in play: a plastic bag blown up from the highway and covering a sensor, bits of asphalt from road repaving, etc. The key point is that the system is designed to work well under optimum conditions, but there are all sorts of external factors that make things go sideways fast.

In the OP's first post, he stated the so-called problem occurred "when someone pulled out in front of me". Here's what the owner's manual says:

Swerving vehicles

A vehicle driving in front of you is not detected until it is completely within the same lane as your vehicle.

If a vehicle driving ahead of you suddenly swerves into your lane, the system may not be able to automatically restore the selected distance.... When a vehicle driving ahead of you is reliably detected, the system requests that the driver intervene by braking and carrying out evasive maneuvers, if needed.​

The manual also reinforces that the braking must be initiated by the driver, and that the system sensitivity is determined by the iDrive settings you have selected (the OP does not share what his selected settings were). I can find NO indication in the manual that the system is designed to brake the vehicle independently without ACC engaged, though the OP seems to believe it should.

OP, you do bear personal responsibility, whether you care to admit it or not. Like the sleeping Tesla driver, you may be placing too much faith in emerging technology, then blaming the failure entirely on the vehicle. It's fine to do that at a cocktail party, but when you do that on an internet board full of enthusiasts, there's a good chance you will be called out on that.

EDIT: Here's what the OP had to say about ACC on a different thread in this forum. Emphasis added:

For those with ACC issues, it's also possible there has been a front end impact. Even a light tap with no visible damage can throw the sensors off and affect how well they work, even without throwing a code. Where it is on the bumper, I worry about even the front catching a parking stop possibly being enough to throw it off. I'm not sure if the sensor is floating in the bumper and attached to the radiator support or if it's attached to the bumper.​
My concern is due to an error being thrown, and at this point the personal attacks and assumptions are getting irritating. You seem determined to prove I was doing something wrong for some reason. If you have input to add that's of use, fine, but leave your speculatory and unfounded criticisms at the door.
 

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I stand by my comments. There have been numerous fatalities in Teslas when folks were watching movies, getting road head, or otherwise distracted while behind the wheel. Last year, the Boston Globe posted video of a driver and passenger fast asleep in their Model S, doing 70 mph on the Mass Pike. The Owner's Manuals are full of warnings and caveats, but folks ignore them and then get lathered up when the systems don't work the way they feel they should.

In the OP's case, he's admitted that he hasn't even read the manual, and that there was paint work done to the bumper, which also indicates the bumper had been hit. (The way he described the paint work, it sounds like it was at the outside corner of the bumper, where radar sensors are located). There may have been other factors in play: a plastic bag blown up from the highway and covering a sensor, bits of asphalt from road repaving, etc. The key point is that the system is designed to work well under optimum conditions, but there are all sorts of external factors that make things go sideways fast.

In the OP's first post, he stated the so-called problem occurred "when someone pulled out in front of me". Here's what the owner's manual says:

Swerving vehicles

A vehicle driving in front of you is not detected until it is completely within the same lane as your vehicle.

If a vehicle driving ahead of you suddenly swerves into your lane, the system may not be able to automatically restore the selected distance.... When a vehicle driving ahead of you is reliably detected, the system requests that the driver intervene by braking and carrying out evasive maneuvers, if needed.​

The manual also reinforces that the braking must be initiated by the driver, and that the system sensitivity is determined by the iDrive settings you have selected (the OP does not share what his selected settings were). I can find NO indication in the manual that the system is designed to brake the vehicle independently without ACC engaged, though the OP seems to believe it should.

OP, you do bear personal responsibility, whether you care to admit it or not. Like the sleeping Tesla driver, you may be placing too much faith in emerging technology, then blaming the failure entirely on the vehicle. It's fine to do that at a cocktail party, but when you do that on an internet board full of enthusiasts, there's a good chance you will be called out on that.

EDIT: Here's what the OP had to say about ACC on a different thread in this forum. Emphasis added:

For those with ACC issues, it's also possible there has been a front end impact. Even a light tap with no visible damage can throw the sensors off and affect how well they work, even without throwing a code. Where it is on the bumper, I worry about even the front catching a parking stop possibly being enough to throw it off. I'm not sure if the sensor is floating in the bumper and attached to the radiator support or if it's attached to the bumper.​
It may vary with MY and equipment, but the car will initiate braking intervention without the driver hitting the brakes first. The car has three stages of warning and intervention that it will go through. The first is the red car in the HUD and Instrument Cluster to say you're getting close, but not dangerously close. The second is the red car accompanied by an acoustic alarm that lets you know you're at risk of a crash. The car will also prime the brakes at this point and hitting them will have full force applied so you can react quicker. If you didn't hit the brakes though the car would hit them for you and bring the car to a complete stop. All of this occurs irrespective of ACC state.

There was an excellent write up in the last two Roudel issues covering this. Including one where they intentionally tried to crash the car into a test image that looks like a car.

I don't think the OP is wrong to open up the debate on how well this feature appears to work and to figure out if his car is having issues that are genuine. That's really the value of the forums IMHO. I'm interested in knowing why the function may be off for OP even though it works well for me so I can be aware of any potential issues down the road.

Screen Shot 2020-07-05 at 1.48.54 PM.jpg
 

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the braking must be initiated by the driver ... I can find NO indication in the manual that the system is designed to brake the vehicle independently without ACC engaged, though the OP seems to believe it should.
AEB is active all the time regardless as to whether or not ACC is engaged, and it does actively intervene. It is also not affected by the sensitivity adjustments in iDrive.

If necessary, the system provides support with automatic brake intervention if there is a risk of collision
 

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///Monkeyazz Duck
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My concern is due to an error being thrown, and at this point the personal attacks and assumptions are getting irritating. You seem determined to prove I was doing something wrong for some reason. If you have input to add that's of use, fine, but leave your speculatory and unfounded criticisms at the door.
My "speculatory (sic) and unfounded criticisms" are lifted directly from the owner's manual. Of course, you can choose to believe that the system works differently. But in my mind, the limitations are well documented.
 

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///Monkeyazz Duck
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AEB is active all the time regardless as to whether or not ACC is engaged, and it does actively intervene. It is also not affected by the sensitivity adjustments in iDrive.
My manual specifically states the system is limited when a car swerves into your lane, which is what the OP stated happened to him. I don't see any disconnect between my observations and yours.

Now if the car was ahead of him in his lane and braked suddenly, I agree the system should have braked independently. But that is not how he described the incident.

We can debate whether the system should be more sensitive to cars swerving into your lane. But my point is to say the manual clearly lists the limitations, something the OP could have known if he had obtained and read the manual. I'm just being factual, not trying to offend his sensitivities.
 

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Has BMW removed the owners manual from iDrive7? I only ask because in my much older CIC version...the owners manual can be accessed in iDrive. :) (Just a thought in case someone doesn’t have a physical manual...nor have downloaded a PDF version which should be easily found doing a google search using a simple phrase like ”BMW _ _ _ _ (fill in blanks with model year) G30 5 series owners manual PDF”. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It may vary with MY and equipment, but the car will initiate braking intervention without the driver hitting the brakes first. The car has three stages of warning and intervention that it will go through. The first is the red car in the HUD and Instrument Cluster to say you're getting close, but not dangerously close. The second is the red car accompanied by an acoustic alarm that lets you know you're at risk of a crash. The car will also prime the brakes at this point and hitting them will have full force applied so you can react quicker. If you didn't hit the brakes though the car would hit them for you and bring the car to a complete stop. All of this occurs irrespective of ACC state.

There was an excellent write up in the last two Roudel issues covering this. Including one where they intentionally tried to crash the car into a test image that looks like a car.
View attachment 899301
Okay, that's the way I understood it as the dealer stated and as the brochure stated. I'll have to look for that article and thank you for what looks like an excerpt from the manual! The way I read it, the car will brake for you if you don't. Also, I've had my car brake for me a few times. Once for some leaves I didn't mind rubbing my bumper and it does regularly backing out of my brother's driveway, I presume due to the relatively sharp angle and the car thinking I might be backing into a wall. I should test the front of it with that same bush, the leaves hanging out over the parking spot are at a great height to trigger sensors and if I do hit them, it's just leaves and a soft stem. It would also possibly replicate my problem.

AEB is active all the time regardless as to whether or not ACC is engaged, and it does actively intervene. It is also not affected by the sensitivity adjustments in iDrive.
Sensitivity settings don't affect that? Interesting. I usually leave those kinds of things on default settings anyway, but that's interesting to note.

I'm just being factual, not trying to offend his sensitivities.
Ok boomer

Has BMW removed the owners manual from iDrive7? I only ask because in my much older CIC version...the owners manual can be accessed in iDrive. :) (Just a thought in case someone doesn’t have a physical manual...nor have downloaded a PDF version which should be easily found doing a google search using a simple phrase like ”BMW _ _ _ _ (fill in blanks with model year) G30 5 series owners manual PDF”. :)
My car does have a manual in the iDrive and I have tried to use it, but it isn't particularly nice to use. I would prefer a manual in hand, but I not gotten around to getting one. The PDF might be nice in the mean time, I probably will download one. Thank you for the suggestion. :)
 
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