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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All,

I have some questions regarding a 2012 X5 35i (E70 engine)

Questions:
1) What could be causing backfiring, rough idling on cold start?
2) Could the elevation change between Ontario and Saskatchewan cause issues with air flow?
3) Noticed evidence of some fluid on the alternator... could spilling fuel or oil on an alternator cause electrical issues that could lead to backfiring?
4) could bad fuel actually cause any/all these issues?

Sorry for the long post... I feel the background info may help with responses.
Background info:
Purchased used from BMW in 2016
Owned it for 3 years (70,000 kms) practically trouble free.
Only work done since I bought it is the water pump, oil changes, air filter, and micro filter
Moved from Ontario to Saskatchewan in Oct 2018, trailer the vehicle so no added mileage

Oct 13, 2018 took it to dealer for 2 factory recalls
(#2016-142 drivers front air bag module 72 80 16RC, and #2016-113 front drive shaft 26 81 17RC)
Requested dealer to change oil and replace spark plugs while it was at the shop

While in the dealers possession (about 2 weeks) dealer claims it started backfiring, smoking, and idling rough on cold start
Dealer claimed it is caused by bad fuel (I disagree, never had these issue before)
Dealer kept my vehicle for 9 WEEKS but cannot solve the issue

Dealer claims they have done the following:
Oil change,
new spark plugs,
Remove and replace front drive shaft
Replaced driver airbag inflator
Diag for engine leak - removed cylinder head cover, inspected cam shaft bearings - slight scoring but OK, found large amount of sludge in valvetrain, reassemble valve cover, washed oil off exhaust and engine
Perform multiple ABLS including misfire detections, activation of valvetronic and fuel quality - all with no results
hot oil flush and erased fault memory
flushed fuel system - drained fuel/replaced,
Replaced fuel pump,
Found faults related to intake pipe pressure, found measure and performed ABL for intake pipe pressure, inspected pipe and crank case vents lines for leaks, no leaks found,
Performed ABL for choking and okay
Performed valvetronic test and ran okay
Ran compressing test and passed
Performed ABL for misfire detection after vehicle sat over night
Borescoped cylinders to find injectors had leaded over night
replaced all injectors and o-rings - runs find on warm start
Due to vehicles adaptations being reset the engine management system will have to relearn, advise customer to drive vehicle to relearn proper adaptations

Dec 14, 2018 - went to pick up vehicle, it wouldn't run properly or even idle.
Dealer had to take back inside and "clear codes"
Once vehicle is warmed up it seems to idle and run fine.
Dealer wanted me to drive for 1000 kms to re-learn my driving habits... something about adaptations?

Drove vehicle for over 1200 kms with same issue
Jan 12 2019 - Returned vehicle to dealer
Dealer had vehicle for one week - updated engine management software
claims it fixed the issue

Jan 22 2019 - Picked up the vehicle and noticed same issue on cold start and even now on idling when warm. Issue seems to be getting worse

Jan 29, 2019 - Took vehicle to another dealership for second opinion
Same morning it was -30°C, vehicle started but when I was inside waiting for it to warm up it stalled and sat for 20-30 minutes with lights on.
Dealer noted the following:
Scan for faults finding history fault of misfire
Perform energy diag. finding battery charge low which may contribute to misfire
This powertrain may have misfire due to fuel or cold weather conditions
recheck after charge battery overnight
vehicle started and ran then stalled when put into gear
restart engine and runs fine
Bring in and check for faults, none entered

Jan 30, 2019 - Picked up vehicle from dealership
Dealer also verbally stated that I should try using 89 instead of 91 octane level fuel

Jan 30, 2019 - I removed battery and had it tested under load
Battery passed test and is fine

 

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Sorry to hear you’re having such a hard time - I have very little experience but I think you’ve come to the right place!



N63 E70 X5 2012
 

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Christ this is a mess.... Hope the dealer didn't screw you too bad.

Right now, what codes show up?

Have you asked BMW to get involved?? Demanding that they pull in engineers to oversee/assist/drive dealer seems reasonable. You want to go to dealer #1 and tell them "open a PUMA case with BMWNA".

IMO there has to be reams of data in the records w dealer #1...I'd normally steer AWAY from the dealer, but in this case there is an embrassingly large amount of data they have. PUMA can dig in without spending more of your money. (Hopefully)
 

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BMW CCA 69606
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All problems disappear after engine is warm, correct?
Sounds like your new injectors are leaking again. Direct injection injectors are more prone to leak in cold weather than warm. Can't tell where you are located. What is overnight low temp where vehicle is parked.
Do you have a scanner?
Mis-fire codes automatically clear on restart. Scan for codes while engine is running rough after cold start.
 

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Nuclear engineer
02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 99K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
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Discussion Starter #8
Christ this is a mess.... Hope the dealer didn't screw you too bad.

Right now, what codes show up?

Have you asked BMW to get involved?? Demanding that they pull in engineers to oversee/assist/drive dealer seems reasonable. You want to go to dealer #1 and tell them "open a PUMA case with BMWNA".

IMO there has to be reams of data in the records w dealer #1...I'd normally steer AWAY from the dealer, but in this case there is an embrassingly large amount of data they have. PUMA can dig in without spending more of your money. (Hopefully)
Currently no codes show up....

Called BMW Canada twice... 1 800 567 2691 all they did is create a complaint and send it to a territory rep. They don't seem to give a sh*t about what the dealers do in Canada. Absolutely no support for owners.

Dealer #1 and #2 state they have been in contact with BMW.

What is a PUMA case?

My only saving grace is that the issue started about one month prior to my extended warranty expiring... but it has has cost me $1200 out of my pocket. That seems a little too much money for an oil change and 6 little spark plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
All problems disappear after engine is warm, correct?
Sounds like your new injectors are leaking again. Direct injection injectors are more prone to leak in cold weather than warm. Can't tell where you are located. What is overnight low temp where vehicle is parked.
Do you have a scanner?
Mis-fire codes automatically clear on restart. Scan for codes while engine is running rough after cold start.
No scanner, -20 to -30°C over night temps for last few days, Regina Saskatchewan, funny thing is last two days it seems to start with no issues.

However; when the car is not backfiring and misfiring I can hear a ticking sound under the hood... almost like a sticky valve or something.

Makes me concerned that the dealer's tardiness to fix issue has caused some serious damage to internal parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This sounds like a Mass Air Flow Sensor issue.
Could very well be... when the problem first started I thought the technician may have forgot to put something related to vacuum or breather back together properly when replacing the spark plugs. it seems to be quite an extensive job to change plugs... nothing like a Ford of GM where they plugs are easily accessible.
 

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Currently no codes show up....

Called BMW Canada twice... 1 800 567 2691 all they did is create a complaint and send it to a territory rep. They don't seem to give a sh*t about what the dealers do in Canada. Absolutely no support for owners.

Dealer #1 and #2 state they have been in contact with BMW.

What is a PUMA case?
.
Look it up. Google,search.

It is a official process where BMWNA directs the repair activities of the dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Okay, this has gone from bad to worse!

So... my vehicle quit last week. Could not get it started. It would crank but would not start. Vehicle was warm. Just finished driving 20 km then it sat for about 10 minutes in -25°C. Came out to start it and it would not start. First time this has happened when the vehicle was warm. Had similar issue at dealer when when I refused to pay them $350 to let them drain and refill fuel tank. I went to pick up vehicle and it would just crank continuously until I removed the key. But the vehicle was stone cold.

The day after my vehicle left me sitting, I requested the dealer start a PUMA case with BMWNA. Dealer states bmw canada and bmwna have been involved all along. (Not sure I believe him)

Now the dealer says the technical dept. at bmw canada wants to see documentation of any previous oil change services. Say what? Why in the world would they need to see them to figure out what the problem is with the vehicle? There was no pre-existing issues so I'm confused why they are requesting that info now after 4 months of not being able to fix my vehicle.

Makes me feel like bmw has pinpointed the issue and doesn't want to cover it under warranty. It must be very expensive to fix and now the dealer is looking for any reason they can find to pin the cost of repairs on me?

They are looking for services done back in 2016 and 2017. Why? What difference does it make now? Vehicle ran perfectly until dealer got a hold of it. Issues were not brought to my attention by dealer until dealer had vehicle in their possession for more then 2 weeks.

Does anyone know if there are any disclaimers that state if oil change service is not performed and documented at certain intervals it could void a warranty?
 

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Okay, this has gone from bad to worse!

So... my vehicle quit last week. Could not get it started. It would crank but would not start. Vehicle was warm. Just finished driving 20 km then it sat for about 10 minutes in -25°C. Came out to start it and it would not start. First time this has happened when the vehicle was warm. Had similar issue at dealer when when I refused to pay them $350 to let them drain and refill fuel tank. I went to pick up vehicle and it would just crank continuously until I removed the key. But the vehicle was stone cold.

The say after my vehicle left me sitting, I requested the dealer start a PUMA case with BMWNA. Dealer states bmw canada and bmwna have been involved all along. (Not sure I believe him)

Now the dealer says the technical dept. at bmw canada wants to see documentation of any previous oil change services. Say what? Why in the world would they need to see them to figure out what the problem is with the vehicle? There was no pre-existing issues so I'm confused why they are requesting that info now after 4 months of not being able to fix my vehicle.

Makes me feel like bmw has pinpointed the issue and doesn't want to cover it under warranty. It must be very expensive to fix and now the dealer is looking for any reason they can find to pin the cost of repairs on me?

They are looking for services done back in 2016 and 2017. Why? What difference does it make now? Vehicle ran perfectly until dealer got a hold of it. Issues were not brought to my attention by dealer until dealer had vehicle in their possession for more then 2 weeks.

Does anyone know if there are any disclaimers that state if oil change service is not performed and documented at certain intervals it could void a warranty?
Semi good news. They are engaged.

Please tell me you can prove you serviced the car. It is a very simple thing to do- EVEN if you DIY. Toss receipts in and envelope.

BMW has the ***ABSOLUTE** right to ask for service documentation. It says right in the warranty booklet they can deny claims if you fail to prove it. Open the glove box, its in the booklet. Or google the bmw warranty PDF.

I have ZERO sympathy for an owner so unconnected to the realities of car ownership and modern life that they dont service the car and cannot find documentation.

IMO there are battles you can fight. DO NOT try to fight a battle over oil changes. GET THE RECEIPTS. Could be worth thousand$$$$$s
 
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