Big Dilemma over here: Competition package or not?? Opinions Please?
Hey guys,
I was in the dealership tonight about to put down my deposit on an '05 Steel Gray fully loaded when I started looking at another M3 on the showroom floor with the comp package.
WHAT I LIKE (about the comp package):
1. I love the ZCP wheels. I am 90% sure I would buy them on the base M3 anyway as an extra set and maybe mount some all weather tires on the 18" wheels.
2. The larger and cross drilled rotors. I had no idea the ZCP package had upgraded braking as well. Anyone have track test #s that say whether or not the larger and drilled rotors have a true performance increase? They should, but thats not always the case from my experience. The vette Z51 has almost no performance increase with the drilled rotors.
3. Exclusivity - the comp package is obviously a bit more exclusive since it was only offered in the last year of production.
WHAT I DON'T LIKE:
1. You lose the streering wheel controls. This is really big for me as I love radio and cruise controls on the steering wheel. Really can't make up my mind on this one. I am so pissed you can't have it both ways.
2. Louder brakes - Supposedly the brakes are noticeable louder with the comp package and probably break down a bit quicker since they are more track oriented.
3. $4,000. For $4,000 extra you can get a pretty mean set of rims (probably even lighter than the ZCP) from BBS or someone else and still have a few dollars left over. But you don't get the improved braking or exclusivity.
Have I considered all the issues? What would you guys do if you were buying it over today? Keep in mind I am 90% sure I will swap out the stock 19s for the ZCPs one way or the other. But I don't really like the alcantra wheel since I want the steering controls.
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: So undecided at this point. Any advice would be great.
Thanks,
Dan
I was in the dealership tonight about to put down my deposit on an '05 Steel Gray fully loaded when I started looking at another M3 on the showroom floor with the comp package.
WHAT I LIKE (about the comp package):
1. I love the ZCP wheels. I am 90% sure I would buy them on the base M3 anyway as an extra set and maybe mount some all weather tires on the 18" wheels.
2. The larger and cross drilled rotors. I had no idea the ZCP package had upgraded braking as well. Anyone have track test #s that say whether or not the larger and drilled rotors have a true performance increase? They should, but thats not always the case from my experience. The vette Z51 has almost no performance increase with the drilled rotors.
3. Exclusivity - the comp package is obviously a bit more exclusive since it was only offered in the last year of production.
WHAT I DON'T LIKE:
1. You lose the streering wheel controls. This is really big for me as I love radio and cruise controls on the steering wheel. Really can't make up my mind on this one. I am so pissed you can't have it both ways.
2. Louder brakes - Supposedly the brakes are noticeable louder with the comp package and probably break down a bit quicker since they are more track oriented.
3. $4,000. For $4,000 extra you can get a pretty mean set of rims (probably even lighter than the ZCP) from BBS or someone else and still have a few dollars left over. But you don't get the improved braking or exclusivity.
Have I considered all the issues? What would you guys do if you were buying it over today? Keep in mind I am 90% sure I will swap out the stock 19s for the ZCPs one way or the other. But I don't really like the alcantra wheel since I want the steering controls.
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: So undecided at this point. Any advice would be great.
Thanks,
Dan
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Search.
Bren - I actually did a search before I posted and only found one thread which doesn't even talk about any of the questions I have - which is why I posted. Would love to see some other threads if this topic has been hashed out a bunch of times.
bren said:
The ZCP pkg. is just a marketing ploy to sell more cars as the model is on its last legs.
If steering wheel controls are important then just buy the wheels from Turner and sell the wheels that come on the car, or use them for snow tires.
If steering wheel controls are important then just buy the wheels from Turner and sell the wheels that come on the car, or use them for snow tires.
I went through some of this same thing, Dan. There certainly are things about the ZCP that I like, although it is not clear to me exactly how usably different they are from a non-ZCP car. You did not mention different DSC and steering; those have the potential to be good, but I've not yet seen a lot of evidence. They probably make very little difference for street driving -- just like the brakes.
There are a couple of things on the ZCP that I specifically do not like and would probably want to change out: alcantara steering wheel and the competition aluminum trim. Not hard to do and it would probably be very easy to sell those ZCP items on eBay. The cruise control was a consideration for me, also.
I think they were going to call it the Club Sport package at first; in a way that makes more sense to me. If you buy a ZCP with minimal other options, it's a great car to take to the track and have fun with. If you want Interlagos Blue, ZCP is the way to get it.
I decided it was too much buck for the bang for me. I can certainly see where others might go the other way. Either way a good car!
There are a couple of things on the ZCP that I specifically do not like and would probably want to change out: alcantara steering wheel and the competition aluminum trim. Not hard to do and it would probably be very easy to sell those ZCP items on eBay. The cruise control was a consideration for me, also.
I think they were going to call it the Club Sport package at first; in a way that makes more sense to me. If you buy a ZCP with minimal other options, it's a great car to take to the track and have fun with. If you want Interlagos Blue, ZCP is the way to get it.
I decided it was too much buck for the bang for me. I can certainly see where others might go the other way. Either way a good car!
If you are planning on loading hte car up, then don't get the ZCP pacakge. If you like the wheels, get them. But overall for most people the ZCP offers them little to nothing real.
my experiences with steering racks are well known to the board I'm sure. A better, quicker, tighter rack would have sold the package for me, but experiences with the ZCP steering and my own driving it do not confirm that the rack is that much better.
I'd never pay that much for wheels alone and the cosmetics are a nice touch, but I couldn't get myself to get it.
You must drive one to conclude a decision.
I'd never pay that much for wheels alone and the cosmetics are a nice touch, but I couldn't get myself to get it.
You must drive one to conclude a decision.
I like the idea of the track DSC mode.
I understand your feeling about the steering wheel buttons but if you think about it, it really doesn't take that much more effort to reach over to the radio.
I don't like the Alcantara steering wheel, in fact I think they are doing away with it for the current ZHP's.
The trim is OK, and I like it much better then the ZHP cube trim but I think I might prefer the Aluminum.
The wheels are great and the steering is probably improved, but I think you would have to drive both to make that decision.
Brakes are subject to debate.
It's a tough decision that's for sure. I pretty much feel the same as you about the ZCP there's 50% of it I like and 50% I don't like.
Maybe wait for the 06 M3, if it happens.
I understand your feeling about the steering wheel buttons but if you think about it, it really doesn't take that much more effort to reach over to the radio.
I don't like the Alcantara steering wheel, in fact I think they are doing away with it for the current ZHP's.
The trim is OK, and I like it much better then the ZHP cube trim but I think I might prefer the Aluminum.
The wheels are great and the steering is probably improved, but I think you would have to drive both to make that decision.
Brakes are subject to debate.
It's a tough decision that's for sure. I pretty much feel the same as you about the ZCP there's 50% of it I like and 50% I don't like.
Maybe wait for the 06 M3, if it happens.
Thank you guys for the opinions.
I agree with all the comments on the steering wheel controls and the $4k being a lot of money for just wheels since you can get the same set for about $1700 plus about $1200 for tires and then turn around and sell your 18s with new tread for hopefully about $1-2k or so.
But what about the braking. Has anyone done a magazine test or braking comparison where the CSL/ZCP braking system is considerably better at either fade resistance or stopping distance or even pedal feel?
If so, then when you add up the $3k for the wheels/tires and another $1-2k for a comparable brake packate the ZCP package starts to make a lot more sense. That is my dillema right now. :dunno:
I agree with all the comments on the steering wheel controls and the $4k being a lot of money for just wheels since you can get the same set for about $1700 plus about $1200 for tires and then turn around and sell your 18s with new tread for hopefully about $1-2k or so.
But what about the braking. Has anyone done a magazine test or braking comparison where the CSL/ZCP braking system is considerably better at either fade resistance or stopping distance or even pedal feel?
If so, then when you add up the $3k for the wheels/tires and another $1-2k for a comparable brake packate the ZCP package starts to make a lot more sense. That is my dillema right now. :dunno:
Pinecone said:
Cost of 19s: 4 wheels at $2,000 + 4 tires & mounting at, say, $1,200 = $3,200. Sell your 18" wheels and tires for $1,200 = $2,000 net.
Cost of Euro brake rotors: $900ish for a set of four. Granted these are NOT ZCP brakes with the larger front rotors. For that you probably would spend your $2K with everything. But it seems to me that you only need a brake upgrade for track use.
Magazine comparison? I wish!
Cost of Euro brake rotors: $900ish for a set of four. Granted these are NOT ZCP brakes with the larger front rotors. For that you probably would spend your $2K with everything. But it seems to me that you only need a brake upgrade for track use.
Magazine comparison? I wish!
Silver TT said:
With $2k you are well on your way to a multi-piston brake upgrade.
Silver TT said:
This package is just for bragging rights.
What if you plan on tracking the car 5-6 times a year. Since these are the CSL brake rotors and calipers they should hold up considerably better under track braking conditions no? :dunno:
Other than that, I totally agree. The rims are no better than the other 19" and not as good as an aftermarket BBS LM or RGR setup and the steering wheel won't do much for you (actually I dislike it really).
Other than that, I totally agree. The rims are no better than the other 19" and not as good as an aftermarket BBS LM or RGR setup and the steering wheel won't do much for you (actually I dislike it really).
asnpcwiz said:
No.
Search for posts on cross drilled brake rotors...bottom line they are not track worthy.
Also, there is no change in the caliper and the parts are not directly from the CSL.
And, try to find good race rubber for 19" wheels.
Search for posts on cross drilled brake rotors...bottom line they are not track worthy.
Also, there is no change in the caliper and the parts are not directly from the CSL.
And, try to find good race rubber for 19" wheels.
Silver TT said:
Hey Bren - I am hearing from several BMW dealerships that the ZCP package is in fact the CSL braking package. But they could be wrong - as they have been before. However, I do know that the ZCP package has the same exact rotors - 13.6 vs. 12.8 for stock M3 and an upgraded Caliper. So what would be different on the CSL if the ZCP has the same rotors and calipers?
I am leaning towards the comp package for three primary reasons:
1. The wheels I will buy anyway and I have not found them less than $2,000 plus tires you are at $3200 right there. Not positive I could get $1500-1800 for the stock 18s so I am not really counting that as a swap. Maybe a $1,000 after shipping and all so I am out $2200 there.
2. Braking - while it may not be the best brake package available - it has to be more fade resistant than stock due to the ventilation and larger rotors. This is just simple physics. And a brembo setup or something would be $3,000 plus installation.
3. I would like to keep the car 100% stock (I always mod the heck out of my cars and it always costs more money than you thought and you never get the money back). I also think someone may want the slight exclusivity of a comp package when the time comes to sell the vehicle.
I see myself spending $4-5k to get the same upgrades aftermarket while losing the OEM Comp package status (clearly a debateable point) so thats my rationale - at least at this point...
Thx again for all opinions. They really help me consider the pros/cons.
D
I am leaning towards the comp package for three primary reasons:
1. The wheels I will buy anyway and I have not found them less than $2,000 plus tires you are at $3200 right there. Not positive I could get $1500-1800 for the stock 18s so I am not really counting that as a swap. Maybe a $1,000 after shipping and all so I am out $2200 there.
2. Braking - while it may not be the best brake package available - it has to be more fade resistant than stock due to the ventilation and larger rotors. This is just simple physics. And a brembo setup or something would be $3,000 plus installation.
3. I would like to keep the car 100% stock (I always mod the heck out of my cars and it always costs more money than you thought and you never get the money back). I also think someone may want the slight exclusivity of a comp package when the time comes to sell the vehicle.
I see myself spending $4-5k to get the same upgrades aftermarket while losing the OEM Comp package status (clearly a debateable point) so thats my rationale - at least at this point...
Thx again for all opinions. They really help me consider the pros/cons.
D
bren said:
CSL has a different kingpin. The parts may be similar, but they are not the "same." Semanitcs mostly yes. And remember the CSL weighs several hundred lbs. less.....you'll need even larger brakes to stop the heavier ZCP as well.
Silver TT said:
As you stated, the ZCP gives you exclusivity, especially if you decide to sell it in the future. Point proven at this years Bimmerfest. Out of the hundreds of M3's that where there, only 1 that I saw was a ZCP. Just as well as the ZHP's. I could count the amount I saw on one hand. Money wise, it is well worth it. You basically summed up your own conclusion above. Although, I remember reading an article that stated that the Track Mode DSC on the ZCP is still too intrusive. Good luck. :thumbup:
Silver TT said:
BTW the ZCP/Euro rotors are KNOWN to crack with track work. So not a great idea in that manner.
I doubt you will stayy 100% stock.
I doubt you will stayy 100% stock.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0505_bmw_m3_competition/
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=105396 **Even has a nice Video**
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102057
http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_103146/newsarticle.html
Motortrend May 05
Ghost in the Machine
M3 Competition Package: Itíll haunt you.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=105396 **Even has a nice Video**
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102057
http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_103146/newsarticle.html
Motortrend May 05
Ghost in the Machine
M3 Competition Package: Itíll haunt you.
WOW, thanks for the links. I just watched that vidio three times in a row.
Went into production this week. Six more weeks to go!! WOHOOO!! :thumbup:
Went into production this week. Six more weeks to go!! WOHOOO!! :thumbup:
bimmerguy said:
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