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Blocked Starter -EWS re-learn on BDC cars?

8010 Views 23 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  babaks
Thank you so much for the respond. I am using Rheingold. I looked again and couldn't find any ABL for this issue, so I marked DME EME2 BDC and REME as replaced in ISTA/P. Obviously I had to redo all the BDC calibrations (windows, ridehight etc.). It went fine but it didn't fix the problem.
Attached is output. I know how to fix the other two issues.
Any other thoughts?

Thanks

Attachments

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You say you couldn't find any ABL for the issue; what did ISTA prompt was the correct test plan for the fault? Run your vehicle test> Display Fault Memory>Calculate Test Plan. It should provide you with a test plan for the faults stored in the vehicle.
Thank you so much for the respond. I am using Rheingold. I looked again and couldn't find any ABL for this issue, so I marked DME EME2 BDC and REME as replaced in ISTA/P. Obviously I had to redo all the BDC calibrations (windows, ridehight etc.). It went fine but it didn't fix the problem.
Attached is output. I know how to fix the other two issues.
Any other thoughts?

Thanks

Attachments

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant no useful ABL. This is what I get.
You say you couldn't find any ABL for the issue; what did ISTA prompt was the correct test plan for the fault? Run your vehicle test> Display Fault Memory>Calculate Test Plan. It should provide you with a test plan for the faults stored in the vehicle.

Attachments

Rats, just the generic one.

Looks like you are using ISTA+, do you have programming enabled on it? You could try program/replacement in ISTA+ for the DME/BDC/REME, if it is newer your ISTA/P.

Outside of that, this is where we make a puma case at the dealer and one of the engineers in Jersey IRAPs in and fixes it with INPA/ESys. I'm not familiar with the EWS procedures in those programs, but there may be someone in the coding subforum who is. Want me to copy this thread over to there?

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I think I have programing available on my ISTA+ but It doesn't run when there is a fault.
My ISTA/P is 63.2.001.
I am familiar with E-sys but mostly for programming.
Please copy this to coding if you can.

Thanks
Rats, just the generic one.

Looks like you are using ISTA+, do you have programming enabled on it? You could try program/replacement in ISTA+ for the DME/BDC/REME, if it is newer your ISTA/P.

Outside of that, this is where we make a puma case at the dealer and one of the engineers in Jersey IRAPs in and fixes it with INPA/ESys. I'm not familiar with the EWS procedures in those programs, but there may be someone in the coding subforum who is. Want me to copy this thread over to there?

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Copied over.

Does anyone in here have experience synchronizing the EWS on BDC cars with INPA?

I believe that is what is required, but other input would be appreciated.
Updated info
Here are more information about the issue:

EME and DME are not replaced.
BDC and REME are replaced.
BDC was replaced first and it came from the factory with a VIN#.
REME came from another car.
I did several re-flashing which didn't fixed the problem. I decided to upgrade to a new version, so I reflashed the car from I01-17-7-500 to I01-17-11-520 with ISTA/P. Everything upgraded without any issue but the problem stayed. I decided to run another flash with E-sys and got this warning on TAL calculate for REME.
'[] Warning 1680, no application data list available for ECUId:REME_0x0A, (Exception: error while reading list entry at index 0)' [C382]
Is this pointing to the source of my issue? I didn't get any error when I programed REME with ISTA/P.

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I have been combing throughout all the tests for BDC, DME and EME. Every single test passes. REME does not have a lot to modify. In fact is does not need any coding. The only odd test result comes from REME. It shows some torque and AC current which can't be correct because the engine is off and REME is not pulling any DC from the battery. (see the picture)

I also did several re-flashing which didn't fixed the problem. I decided to upgrade to a newer version, so I reflashed the car from I001-17-7-500 to I001-17-11-520 with ISTA/P. Everything upgraded without any issue but the problem stayed. If I run E-sys with I001-17-11-520 now, I only get this warning on TAL calculate for REME.
'[] Warning 1680, no application data list available for ECUId:REME_0x0A, (Exception: error while reading list entry at index 0)' [C382]

I don't think there is an EWS issue here, otherwise I would get some other error for it. At this point I think my starter and/or REME is bad. Since I replaced the REME I think my next step is to remove the starter (for that I have to remove REME again). There might be some water in the HV connector of the starter!

Any thoughts?

Attachments

I happen to have an i8 in my bay right now, I will check the values you listed for comparison.

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Looks comparable to yours Text Font Technology Electronic device Car


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If you had water in the connector, you should have isolation monitoring faults saved. Since the only fault you have is related to starter blocked, I am still leaning towards something preventing the REME from activating it. You said the REME came from a donor car?

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I have been combing throughout all the tests for BDC, DME and EME. Every single test passes. REME does not have a lot to modify. In fact is does not need any coding. The only odd test result comes from REME. It shows some torque and AC current which can't be correct because the engine is off and REME is not pulling any DC from the battery. (see the picture)

I also did several re-flashing which didn't fixed the problem. I decided to upgrade to a newer version, so I reflashed the car from I001-17-7-500 to I001-17-11-520 with ISTA/P. Everything upgraded without any issue but the problem stayed. If I run E-sys with I001-17-11-520 now, I only get this warning on TAL calculate for REME.
'[] Warning 1680, no application data list available for ECUId:REME_0x0A, (Exception: error while reading list entry at index 0)' [C382]

I don't think there is an EWS issue here, otherwise I would get some other error for it. At this point I think my starter and/or REME is bad. Since I replaced the REME I think my next step is to remove the starter (for that I have to remove REME again). There might be some water in the HV connector of the starter!

Any thoughts?
In the BDC, what do you shown for this starter lock status check? Bdc>ECU functions>diagnosis scan>status of starter lock Text Electronics Technology Electronic device Font


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Yes, the REME came from a donor car.
I did have water in my HV cables and I used to get isolation error and warning both (good times!!). Those are all fixed now. The isolation test is only for HV DC. There is no test for HV AC on the starter side (three wire).
The BDC is not blocking the starter (Normal opration) I think I saw something else in DME which says starter is not blocked. EME and SME are all happy too.
Thank you so much for the screen capture. If starter is not the problem I am totally lost.

Attachments

Actually, the 3 phase lines are checked phase to phase AND phase to ground for isolation faults by the REME; been there, fought that battle on an i3 REME/Generator. Condensation inside the generator was causing sporadic resistance drops from random phase to ground, throwing my isolation faults.

But since you have no ISO faults, unless there is an open circuit/extremely high resistance in your lines or contacts I doubt it is a water issue. But, it is not hard to check. Deactivate the HV and then you can swing the engine back a bit by releasing the lower swing arm. That gives you room to access the HV connections on both the REME and the SMG.

Good luck! If you have no water, I would suggest installing INPA and digging around in the BDC/REME to see if you can see any expert procedures in there that may help you out. ISTA is used by dealers, but INPA is used by the regional engineers and contains more procedures/functions than ISTA(if you can find them, alot of it is not in english).
Yes, the REME came from a donor car.
I did have water in my HV cables and I used to get isolation error and warning both (good times!!). Those are all fixed now. The isolation test is only for HV DC. There is no test for HV AC on the starter side (three wire).
The BDC is not blocking the starter (Normal opration) I think I saw something else in DME which says starter is not blocked. EME and SME are all happy too.
Thank you so much for the screen capture. If starter is not the problem I am totally lost.
I manage to loosen up the starter bolts marked as red (see the picture). And put a flat screw driver in place of the green arrow. Unfortunately there was some water in there (but not a lot). I think water leaked in from the side of the cables (blue arrow).
I used a hot air blower with a hose to warm up inside of the starter for over 30 minutes. There is probably no more water inside. This didn't change anything.
It appears water didn't go as high as the top HV connector of the starter so I didn't try to remove that. In order to remove the starter, vibration damper should probably come out which is not going to be fun in that tight space. I think I will exhaust all other options before I attempt that.
I had a copy of INPA on my laptop but it doesn't seem to have support for I3 or I8. Do I need to install some additions. Thank you
Actually, the 3 phase lines are checked phase to phase AND phase to ground for isolation faults by the REME; been there, fought that battle on an i3 REME/Generator. Condensation inside the generator was causing sporadic resistance drops from random phase to ground, throwing my isolation faults.

But since you have no ISO faults, unless there is an open circuit/extremely high resistance in your lines or contacts I doubt it is a water issue. But, it is not hard to check. Deactivate the HV and then you can swing the engine back a bit by releasing the lower swing arm. That gives you room to access the HV connections on both the REME and the SMG.

Good luck! If you have no water, I would suggest installing INPA and digging around in the BDC/REME to see if you can see any expert procedures in there that may help you out. ISTA is used by dealers, but INPA is used by the regional engineers and contains more procedures/functions than ISTA(if you can find them, alot of it is not in english).

Attachments

Another update:
I was working on the other two codes and I realized the REME error doesn't come immediately after I erase all the codes (I gave it a minute and it didn't come. I didn't wait longer). I think it wasn't like this before but I am not sure. If I put the car in gear or turn it off and on, the code comes back. Can this be happening if I have EWS issue?
It is my understanding that EWS only checks for blocking conditions at startup, not after the car is already on and ready to go(hence how you can start a start/stop button car with the key inside, remove the remote key and drive away, leaving the key at home) So that seems to make sense.

As for getting INPA working on i cars, I have seen it used myself in person by the regional engineers. But I have not set up a machine to use it personally.
Another update:
I was working on the other two codes and I realized the REME error doesn't come immediately after I erase all the codes (I gave it a minute and it didn't come. I didn't wait longer). I think it wasn't like this before but I am not sure. If I put the car in gear or turn it off and on, the code comes back. Can this be happening if I have EWS issue?
I believe if you do a "frakenstein" setup between later ISTA files, and old INPA, you can get INPA working on iSeries cars.

The .prg jobs are mostly in esys and ista, and just need to transfer it over to INPA to run tool32 on them.

Unfortunately I don't have experience on this here specifically.. but I know it's possible for non bmw engineer techs to do.

Maybe people that do iDrive retrofits need to run some of these specialized jobs.
It is my understanding that EWS only checks for blocking conditions at startup, not after the car is already on and ready to go(hence how you can start a start/stop button car with the key inside, remove the remote key and drive away, leaving the key at home) So that seems to make sense.

As for getting INPA working on i cars, I have seen it used myself in person by the regional engineers. But I have not set up a machine to use it personally.
Thank you so much for the reply. You are absolutely correct. God-Follower kindly pointed me to a INPA which had some support for BMW I3. I compared that INPA with mine using meld and realized the programs are mostly identical except the ECU stuff. I linked the ECU folder in EDIABAS to Rheingold\Ecu (ISTA) and manage to load REME_I12 in INPA. There are some warnings for version and language difference.
This is the error in my REME:

EWS-Manipulationsschutz: Momentengenerierung Elektromaschine durch EWS gesperrt

EWS manipulation protection: torque generation Electric machine locked by EWS.

The lesson learned here is to never argue with God!

I have been trying to find a EWS related procedure in REME (REME_I12.prg) BDC (BDC.prg) and DME (DME_BX8.prg) in INPA but haven't found anything. There is only a EWS status in BDC.prg.

I really haven't used Tool32 much but decided to give it a go. I found a job in REME_I12.prg called status_ews. This is the output:

apiJob("REME_I12","status_ews","","")

Satz : 0
OBJECT = reme_i12
SAETZE = 1
JOBNAME = status_ews
VARIANTE = REME_I12
JOBSTATUS =
UBATTCURRENT = -1
UBATTHISTORY = -1
IGNITIONCURRENT = -1
IGNITIONHISTORY = -1
Satz : 1
STAT_EWS3_CAPABLE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS4_CAPABLE = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_EWS6_CAPABLE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS3_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS4_ACTIVE = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_EWS6_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS4_SERVER_SK_LOCKED = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_EWS4_CLIENT_SK_LOCKED = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_CLIENT_AUTHENTICATED = 2 00 02 ..
STAT_CLIENT_AUTHENTICATED_TXT = Freigabe abgelehnt (Challenge-Response fehlgeschlagen, falsche Response, Kommunikation i.O.)
STAT_DH_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_E_LABEL_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
_STAT_FKT0 = 255 00 FF .ÿ
_STAT_FKT1 = 255 00 FF .ÿ
STAT_FREE_SK0 = 254 00 FE .þ
_STAT_FREE_SK0_TXT = Ablage unbegrenzt
STAT_FREE_SK1 = 0 00 00 ..
_STAT_FREE_SK1_TXT = freie Ablagen
STAT_VERSION = 3 00 03 ..
_STAT_VERSION_TXT = DH-Abgleich
JOB_STATUS = OKAY

I have the list of other jobs in three screen capture. Is there any that might help me?

Thank you
I believe if you do a "frakenstein" setup between later ISTA files, and old INPA, you can get INPA working on iSeries cars.

The .prg jobs are mostly in esys and ista, and just need to transfer it over to INPA to run tool32 on them.

Unfortunately I don't have experience on this here specifically.. but I know it's possible for non bmw engineer techs to do.

Maybe people that do iDrive retrofits need to run some of these specialized jobs.

Attachments

Thank you so much for the reply. You are absolutely correct. God-Follower kindly pointed me to a INPA which had some support for BMW I3. I compared that INPA with mine using meld and realized the programs are mostly identical except the ECU stuff. I linked the ECU folder in EDIABAS to Rheingold\Ecu (ISTA) and manage to load REME_I12 in INPA. There are some warnings for version and language difference.
This is the error in my REME:

EWS-Manipulationsschutz: Momentengenerierung Elektromaschine durch EWS gesperrt

EWS manipulation protection: torque generation Electric machine locked by EWS.

The lesson learned here is to never argue with God!

I have been trying to find a EWS related procedure in REME (REME_I12.prg) BDC (BDC.prg) and DME (DME_BX8.prg) in INPA but haven't found anything. There is only a EWS status in BDC.prg.

I really haven't used Tool32 much but decided to give it a go. I found a job in REME_I12.prg called status_ews. This is the output:

apiJob("REME_I12","status_ews","","")

Satz : 0
OBJECT = reme_i12
SAETZE = 1
JOBNAME = status_ews
VARIANTE = REME_I12
JOBSTATUS =
UBATTCURRENT = -1
UBATTHISTORY = -1
IGNITIONCURRENT = -1
IGNITIONHISTORY = -1
Satz : 1
STAT_EWS3_CAPABLE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS4_CAPABLE = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_EWS6_CAPABLE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS3_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS4_ACTIVE = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_EWS6_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_EWS4_SERVER_SK_LOCKED = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_EWS4_CLIENT_SK_LOCKED = 1 00 01 ..
STAT_CLIENT_AUTHENTICATED = 2 00 02 ..
STAT_CLIENT_AUTHENTICATED_TXT = Freigabe abgelehnt (Challenge-Response fehlgeschlagen, falsche Response, Kommunikation i.O.)
STAT_DH_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
STAT_E_LABEL_ACTIVE = 0 00 00 ..
_STAT_FKT0 = 255 00 FF .ÿ
_STAT_FKT1 = 255 00 FF .ÿ
STAT_FREE_SK0 = 254 00 FE .þ
_STAT_FREE_SK0_TXT = Ablage unbegrenzt
STAT_FREE_SK1 = 0 00 00 ..
_STAT_FREE_SK1_TXT = freie Ablagen
STAT_VERSION = 3 00 03 ..
_STAT_VERSION_TXT = DH-Abgleich
JOB_STATUS = OKAY

I have the list of other jobs in three screen capture. Is there any that might help me?

Thank you
Challenge-Response fehlgeschlagen, falsche Response, Kommunikation i.O.
Challenge-Response failed, wrong response, communication i.O.

Looks like there is a mismatch here. Not sure if a simple forced VIN change would work in the replacement REME(if it is even possible), but that would be my starting point. See if you can find a way to locate and overwrite the donor vehicle VIN with your vehicle's VIN, then code/program and hope the EWS aligns itself :dunno:

*DISCLAIMER* Shooting in the dark here, there may well be more to EWS than just needing to see the correct VIN number. If it is a rolling code system, then without a procedure to align them you/we are stuck.

Worse case scenario, recommend getting a new REME from BMW so you know it can be written with your VIN and aligned with the vehicle. But let's see if we get any other gurus more familiar with this area than me to chime in here, getting to the nitty gritty and some people like that kind of challenge.
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