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Discussion Starter #1
Thinking about doing that controversial Timing Chain Guide Rail Job?
DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT!
Pay a reputable shop! I thought I had it until I started her up and BAMM!!! Pretty sure I bent a valve.

The difficult part of the job is setting the timing, if you haven't done it before, you can find out how good of a job you've done after you start it. (I know, I should have turned it by hand first).

A man's got to know his limitations!
I had the tools and proper instructions from a master tech.

Merry Christmas, I need a new motor! Does anyone know where I can find Santa Claus or maybe Chop Foose? Overhaul me please!!!
I'm crying over here, I think I'll try a kickstarter campaign.

P.S. If you do attempt the job, please feel free to PM to ask me what not to do.
 

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I did mine

And couldn't be happier...
The guys in this forum and bimmerforums helped immensely, Watched, studied and read several DIY's and sure I was into it a couple times, but nothing inside that motor scares me...

Sorry to the OP...where did ya go wrong?
 

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Sorry to hear that, turning it by hand would have saved you lots of aggravation.
Sounds like you either didn't use the timing kit to lock the cams or didn't retard the intake cams properly.
You probably only need a few intake valves and maybe a piston if your lucky.
You need to keep tension on the chain after you remove the block that pushes on the pass side tensioner rail. If you don't the slack can allow the chain to skip one tooth over the crank sprocket.
I have a friend that parts out E38/39's. I've taken a few of the engines apart that have had the valves and pistons kiss. Only the intake valves were bent.
 

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yep... sorry for your lost..

hopefully this will resurface when the others dont want to hear me when i tell them not to do it...

lotta people here think that can read there way outta a m62tu timing job...

Ive timed all sorts of things in my day... and this engine is one of the harder ones...

Good news is you can get a new motor for about 3500$ (and then redo the timing on that one b4 you put it in)
 

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So sorry!!! Know how much it hurts to try to improve things and end up making it worse. Hope you can repair the damage done. Take a deep breath, get a bit to eat and a couple of very cold ones and make a plan.

Might start by pulling the valve cover(s) and plugs and see if you can find which cylinder(s) are involved. This might not be the end of this engine, you very well could get lucky and be able to repair the damage done. It's not like you were at 7k when things let go. You need a survey to see how much damage was actually done. "Can't tell the players without a program!"

doc
 

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Sucks that happened. I thought about doing it myself on my 540i, but after looking over all the stuff online I lost confidence in myself to do it properly and decided to pay a local indy shop to do it. Haven't regretted it at all.

And who is this Chop Foose? Sounds like a cool fella lol.
 

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Might start by pulling the valve cover(s) and plugs and see if you can find which cylinder(s) are involved. This might not be the end of this engine, you very well could get lucky and be able to repair the damage done. It's not like you were at 7k when things let go. You need a survey to see how much damage was actually done. "Can't tell the players without a program!"

doc
you will not be able to see with out pulling the head,

This is not the end of your engine.. It is the end of your head gasket though and the 3 valves that are bent,

and @ idle or 10,000RPm the damage will be the same,

interference is interference
 

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If you can do a timing guide/rail replacement then you should be able to remove the cylinder heads without a problem. Take the heads off and check to see what the damage is. You might get away with just buying used heads or rebuilding them if the heads and pistons are good. Even if you did part of the job and then took it to an Indy to retime it is still cheaper than buying a rebuil/used engine.
 

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If you can do a timing guide/rail replacement then you should be able to remove the cylinder heads without a problem. Take the heads off and check to see what the damage is. You might get away with just buying used heads or rebuilding them if the heads and pistons are good. Even if you did part of the job and then took it to an Indy to retime it is still cheaper than buying a rebuil/used engine.

no...

no..

your going to do a head job... and a timing job and a valley pan job and a oil pan gasket job... all at the same time coolant cross pipe o rings eff it.... plugs 2


If you want to do it right, other wise its gonna end up in someone else hand for cheap who wants to throw 3 thousand dollars at it




part it out man,
 

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no...

no..

your going to do a head job... and a timing job and a valley pan job and a oil pan gasket job... all at the same time coolant cross pipe o rings eff it.... plugs 2


If you want to do it right, other wise its gonna end up in someone else hand for cheap who wants to throw 3 thousand dollars at it




part it out man,
Holy Sh*t Burning2nd I've read a dozen or so threads where you THINK you know alot and decide to chime in on something someone else said. Why the hell would he pull the cylinder head without doing a timing job in the same project? It's kinda a no brainer. If the OP has the mechanical ability to replace the guide rails then he has the mechanical ability to pull a cylinder head. The OP didn't say he had coolant leak so your advice, unless recomended as preventative maintence, regarding the valley pan is wanton. How much and how hard is it to replace the o-rings in the coolant manifold? If he did the timing job he probably doesnt need to replace them if he is careful removing them and he just replaced them. In regards to the oil pan gasket, OMFG, 20 bolts, 20 minutes, and a cost of $25.

Yes.. Yes.. Yes... He s/b able to do the entire job (if its not entirely effed up) then tow it to an Indy for timing. Im pretty sure dckr and others proved that you weren't sufficiently qualified to offer advice on this issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I used the kit and I had every tool. I locked the flywheel and then the cams. I also used the tool for the tension on the rail and the two that set the timing on the sensor gears. There was no guessing on the job, I think the gray area is when you place the tool to tension the rail, how tight should it be? One set of instructions gave a torque spec. The other for the tools I rented said until there is no slack in the chain. ( it wasn't my first time doing this job on a E39) so I assumed because it was on there really tight with no slack it would be alright. So here is what could have happened: 1: For the fist job I was only replacing the upper timing case cover gaskets, when I put everything back the tensioner didn't fully expand and caused the guides to break when I started it. The damage could have been done there. Didn't drive it shut it off immediately because I knew what I had done. Maybe it jumped when I started it with all the slack that was in the chain. So a word to the wise ALWAYS CHANGE YOUR TENSIONER IF YOUR ARE DOING AN UPPER TIMING CASE GASKET REPLACEMENT! (If you haven't replaced it in a while and are taking it out for any reason). 2: Should I have loosened the Cams, sensor gears, etc. I've seen it where people on here just lock the cams in place and never loosen the bolt.
Towing it to the shop this week, I checked the compression and all cylinders were good, maybe it's not as bad as I thought? 3. Should I have run the acoustic continuity test?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
no...

no..

your going to do a head job... and a timing job and a valley pan job and a oil pan gasket job... all at the same time coolant cross pipe o rings eff it.... plugs 2


If you want to do it right, other wise its gonna end up in someone else hand for cheap who wants to throw 3 thousand dollars at it




part it out man,
And the sad thing is after I did the upper timing case cover gasket replacement, the tensioner did not expand and destroyed the rail when I started it. I explained that to the Indy shops and told them that now I need a timing chain guide rail job and they wouldn't touch it (the two I called) because I had already gone in there and they didn't know what damage I had done and did not want to be responsible (I only started it in my driveway and shut it down). While it was running it ran fine except for the chain rattle. I was also stood up by a master tech who was supposed to meet me early Saturday morning to watch me set the timing. It just isn't a job you can do without someone who really knows what they are doing when it comes to setting the timing, I believe that is the best advice I could give someone on the fence about doing the job. I tried to avoid it but I just helped a friend do his and I had all the correct tools so I thought I could do it. And you are correct, there is a small coolant leak, (where do you suppose that is coming from?) I did replace the water pump when I did the job.
I just ran a compression check and all cylinders were within spec. Do you think I dodged the bullet?
 

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You can turn the engine over by hand!!?? GREAT!!!!

If you have bent valves, if you turn it slowly and examine the lift on each valve you will be able so see if one or more are not lifting or closing all the way, or if you come to a position where the crank will not turn any further. Valves tend to bend at the stem where it transitions to the actual valve, there by changing the angle of the valve so it will no longer seat. If you're getting full compression in all cylinders, I think you have a very good chance that this motor will survive what ever has happened. Don't forget, valves can show a clearance when turning through cold by hand and yet hit when the motor is running (valve lash). You didn't change the head gasket, so can't have encountered any clearance problems there.


If it turns all the way through and no sign of a stuck valve, (full rom, full compression) I'm thinking you have received an early Christmas present. But you still need to find what happened with the timing if anything and correct it. Pull the covers again and go back through all the steps, check everything, all cam timing, chain, chain guides, the whole thing.


If you don't have any bent valves, timing is correct and so the valve lash is correct, you might consider that it isn't the valves that are making the problem but something else in that system.

As you noted, 2 heads are better than one, especially if one of those heads has been to factory school!! :))

doc
 

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Holy Sh*t Burning2nd I've read a dozen or so threads where you THINK you know alot and decide to chime in on something someone else said. Why the hell would he pull the cylinder head without doing a timing job in the same project? It's kinda a no brainer. If the OP has the mechanical ability to replace the guide rails then he has the mechanical ability to pull a cylinder head. The OP didn't say he had coolant leak so your advice, unless recomended as preventative maintence, regarding the valley pan is wanton. How much and how hard is it to replace the o-rings in the coolant manifold? If he did the timing job he probably doesnt need to replace them if he is careful removing them and he just replaced them. In regards to the oil pan gasket, OMFG, 20 bolts, 20 minutes, and a cost of $25.

Yes.. Yes.. Yes... He s/b able to do the entire job (if its not entirely effed up) then tow it to an Indy for timing. Im pretty sure dckr and others proved that you weren't sufficiently qualified to offer advice on this issue.



slow down... read it all ageain slowly....
 

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Imho

There is something else going on that we do not see...

It is highly doubtful that the tensioner not expanding is the cause for this and the theory is highly suspect...there is something he missed or we missed, to me there is NO WAY the tensioner is at fault...

How many have I done...One...but it took me 4 attempts to get it right, yes, 4 times back into that motor to get it right...runs like a champ no codes...

Every single time that tensioner install was a genuine PITA due to pressure from the spring...I did replace it with a new one but, after the first time it is like installing an old one for some reason the new ones are partially compressed and the oil pressure makes them expand...once they are used for 1 startup then the spring expands and it is a bear to install...

If he locked the crank in the proper position, and cams that chain fits pretty snug, my first time I had the slack on the wrong side and I did start my motor ...no harm and if that didn't do it ...you'd have to majorly screw something ujp...that was round one...the trick is when you are putting the crank pin in make sure to go in the direction of rotation of the engine to seat the pin...don't think because you have a socket on the crank that you can 'wiggle' it back and forth to lock the crank pin...you can't that will put slack in the chain the on driver side and yup...you'll be doing time #2...
 

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Hi
How do you know you have bent valves? what noise did it make? These m62 motors makes one hell of first start up noise after reinstalling the chain tensioner....lol still waiting on my outcome with home made timing-locking tools!!

best of luck
Regards
 

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If you think it makes a lot of noise from just changing the tensioner you should hear it after a full chain guide replacement when the vanos and it's solenoids have had the oil drain out of them! Now that's some racket.
 
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