[dtc100]

I would drive an A4 Quarttro S Line for a fair comparison.

Although both BMW and MB are not "rebadged," the downside is they do not have the cheaper arms to produce fuel sippers to meet the CAFE standard, so they have to build eco cars from within their own ranks. Why do you think BJ complains about ED and his ASS? This does not happen for Audi or Infiniti, or Cadillac.

 

[dtc100]

Anyone who buys a car as a status symbol is a loser.

Here in the US, Lexus is truely bought for status, since there is very little else you get from driving a Lexus.

 

[dtc100]

Please. Most BMW owners are doing just that. No need for the insult just because you have a different point of view.

How would you feel if we said that any 40 year old who buys a $50,000 German luxury car to treat it as if he was a teenager in a $20,000 Honda was a loser? Would that sit well with you?

Let's be civil here.

BJ

Driving a $200k Ferrari and treat it like a disposable piece of garbage, is the ultimate show of status. Treating a $50k Germanic car like a $20k Honda, is just show of status in training.

Let me try to be civil by pointing out, use the above standard, BJ you have not been potty trained yet.

 

[dtc100]

Not so!

The LS, for instance, is purchased mainly for reliability.

There, Lexus is supreme.

Which was why I said, there is little else you get from DRIVING A LEXUS.

Although it is clear even Lexus recognized it, and now tries to make their new models more fun to drive.

 

[dtc100]

Exactly, there are so many 328 leased strippers running around that the perception is that you simply got that car for the badge. Even when I was younger and wanted to get into a BMW, I would never get a car I can't enjoy by stripping down options that are important to me to make it affordable.

Or maybe many of them found the base BMW so much more fun to drive, they don't need all the other stuff, which are designed to let you forget about the boring driving part, when you drive.

Believe it or not, unlike BJ, I do get to talk to some of those female 3 drivers. They are no enthusiasts by a long shot, but when asked what they liked about their cars, they would tell you, it is fun to drive.

It does not take an enthusiast to know a car is more fun to drive.

 

[dtc100]

As a $50,000 car with options the 328i is a good value. As a $36,500 car completely stripped, the 328i is a rip-off. Everyone knows this, but most 3 Series sold are no-feature models to badge lovers. Ignoring this, the largest segment of the 3 Series population will not change the fact.

BJ

As usual, you have a way to state the opposite. Something of great value, means you can get it for less money, not more.

By definition, status is the opposite of great value. The more status and luxury you seek, the less you are concerned about it having a good value.

Why often times the more upscale a car is, the faster the depreciation.

 

[dtc100]

I'm probably in a unique position as I own a '11 335i xDrive coupe. Just went on a little shopping expedition with the GF, who was planning to buy a 2012 328i xDrive.

But, to keep everyone honest, we extensively drove the '12 C350 coupe (and the E350 coupe briefly), the 328 and the A4/S4.

First up.....C350-not bad. Less than exciting interior. Probably the least sporting of the ones we drove. Cramped....felt even more cramped than my 335i coupe. MSRP was right around $54K as it was all loaded up. But, the dealer seemed more than willing to get it closer to the low end of $50K with no effort to keep us from shopping around. Didn't help. That was scratched.

2nd up....A4....really a classy car. Drove nice. She liked the styling, in and out better than either the BMW or the Benz. Extremely well put together. Beautiful inside and out. Nice balance of ride/handling....probably the best of all we drove. All the tech you can handle. Priced somewhere in the mid $40K range.

(Almost) the last car we drove....the 328i xDrive. Being used to my 335i, the difference in power was readily apparent, as was the "rougness" of the turbo 4. But, once under way, it performed well. Steering was light compared to my car. You could definitely tell the size went up, especially compared to my coupe. We drove a sport line, which I happened to really like. But, she liked the "luxury line" better. The one we drove had an MSRP close to $50K, with the dealer willing to discount a little, but not much ($1,500 off). She almost bought it.

Except.....

She wanted to drive the A4 one more time. Set up an appointment, but the one she was interested in, was out on another test drive. After mentioning to the dealer I drove a 335i, he gave us the keys to one of the two S4s they had. That was it....game, set, match. It was a 2013. As much as I hate to admit it, the S4 trumps the 335i. After fidgeting with the dealer on price, she got it to a price that was pretty close to the C350 (but the S4 is a MUCH, MUCH better car than the Mercedes). She loves the S4. Then again, she loved the A4, too. S4 was in a whole other category, though.

Still love my 335i, but I drive her car as much as I can. It's just an extremely well done sports luxury sedan.

Everyone who compared an S4 to a 335 said S4 is better. In the past S4 was only compared to 335is because they were in the same price bracket and both were in limited supply. Now it seems the S4's availability and price situation has greatly improved.

 

[dtc100]

Well this thread turned into a bunch of stupid f***ing opinions. Way to go.

I thought the OP asked for just that, opinions. Maybe he didn't ask for stupid f***ing opinions. But then "stupid" and "f***ing" are just opinions too.

 

[dtc100]

"Value" is the ratio between features and price.

A $3,500,000 home bought at $2,100,000 is a great value.

A $250,000 home bought at $275,000 is a poor value.

There is plenty of status in a $3,500,000 home that sold below its appraised price.

BJ

Housing and auto are opposite in their value propositions. If you are really thinking what is the best value return for your $50k cash in the bank, invest it in real estate (especially in the markets that rebounded lately), not in a car, period.

BTW, I did a quick scan of lease payments between 335 and S4, the S4 on average is still $150 more a month. Personally I don't think S4 is $150/mo. better than 335i.

 

[dtc100]

Fantastic service standards as well, and if you want a smooth, quiet, comfortable car they are a good choice as well.

As I said, all those values are not things you get while DRIVING the Lexus. Those qualities are designed to help you forget you are driving, while you are driving. I know there are many who dread driving, I don't blame them for wanting a Lexus.

 

[dtc100]

You are missing the point. Is the person driving the $38,000 BMW with leatherette and no features really interested in the way it drives or did they pick it over a much better equipped Accord or Camry because a BMW has more prestige?

At least, if not more, people buying a stripped down BMW care more about the badge and prestige than how good it is at being a daily driver. The people here who do care how these cars are engineered and how they perform are in the (possibly extreme) minority.

I don't think "survey" has been conclusive on this. As I have said, I have talked to several ladies who drive 3 series, they say they drive it because it was more fun.

It is not difficult to figure 328i is more fun to drive than a C250 or C300. If status is their main goal, why not get the MB?

People who are more focused on driving dynamics, may not be so interested in all the other luxury options, and people who want status, probably want to add all the options so they can impress their friends riding shotgun with them. In that sense, more people drive around in stripper 3 series could prove the opposite what BJ has concluded.

 

[dtc100]

All of you are hilarious. The car happens to be a lot of fun to drive, and it is also recognized as a more expensive vehicle than your average driver is willing to buy, given its utility. Nothing wrong with enjoying both perks! I don't get how this becomes an argument each time it is brought up. Does is not make you smile when someone sees your car and says "Nice!". Not many people are doing that when you pick up a new Camry...

Helps that it is also wicked fun to drive :thumbup:

Really? I have not had one person in another car (good percentage happens to be a Bimmer too) come up to me and say: "Nice!"

 

[dtc100]

+1

I have. More than once. It has nothing to do with why I choose BMW, but it is nice.

It must be me then, my wife gets people come up asking about her little ugly MB crossover often.

 

[dtc100]

I think both BMWs and MBs, even a C class, say "I have money" - the difference is that Benz has sort of an old school money connotation, for old people or white men with cigars - a lot of women probably think BMW let's them make a statement without being seen as old or conservative, or male.

A few weeks ago I had the good fortune of riding in shuttles from my dealer instead of a loaner, when my car was in the shop for a day. The dealer also sells and services Mini on the same lot.

Got to see faces and talk to other Bimmer and Mini drivers. Every female customer had a Mini, and every male customer had a Bimmer. I also noticed those female drivers really knew their cars too. Needless to say, next time I will insist to take their shuttle when I have my car serviced there.

 

[dtc100]

It is certainly a far more of a grownup car than any previous 3.

Just a nice way of saying "an old man's car." If a 5 series is an old man's car, and if people (especially ladies) cannot tell the F30 apart from the 5 series, what do you think they will say?

 

[dtc100]

Why would anyone want to do that?

I've never driven a garbage truck either, and everyone I know thinks that's a great thing.

BJ

There is clearly difference between not wanting to drive a garbage truck, and not wanting to drive a car that is better than your own.

 

[dtc100]

The 328 and A4 are volume sellers and Audi figures that if someone is an enthusiast they are more likely to go full on and not get the same car with a different engine. Not everyone can get an M3 so not bringing in the rs4 to the US makes the S4 the next best thing for slightly more.

It is about different approach. BMW makes their most base model more fun to drive, MB makes their most expensive models the most fun to drive. I think Audi falls in the middle, the base A4 quarttro is more fun to drive than C class, but not as much fun as 328i.

If you are really into driving, then the C63 AMG stands head and shoulder with BMW and Audi compact high performance models.

 

[dtc100]

Not sure how much to lease a C63 AMG, it was voted the 2nd best driver's car of the year by MT, just behind the new Porsche 911.

 

[dtc100]

Bought the 335i before the grilfriend bought the S4. S4 wasn't on my radar as I thought it was $10K more than my 335i at the time. They're actually priced similarly. Again, I still love my BMW.

335i is definitely cheaper than S4.

 

[dtc100]

IIRC...the S4 was $600-$700 more than a 335iX, optioned like for like

I will use 335i in the comparison since it is designed on a RWD platform. S4 is designed on an AWD platform.

But if you must have 335ix, BMW usually offers much more incentives on the ix to compete with Audi quarttro anyway.