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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
NA inline-6 engines for the 3 and 5-series
NA V8 engine option for the 5 series
NA V8 engine for the next M3

5 and 7-series that looks like the E38 - more of sleek and square, less of curvy and rotund. Even if its less aerodynamic and means the engine needs to be smaller.

Classic dynamics over complicated cutting-edge technology.
4-cyl, V6, turbo options for those who prefer fuel efficient performance.

Run-flats optional
Headliner color choice
 

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What BMW is concentrating on: complicated cutting-edge technology over classic dynamics.

BMW has unfortunately lost its way: ditched the "Ultimate Driving Machine" motto since they weren't fooling anybody.

Looking at Porsche 911's. I've had enough.
 

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What BMW is concentrating on: complicated cutting-edge technology over classic dynamics.

BMW has unfortunately lost its way: ditched the "Ultimate Driving Machine" motto since they weren't fooling anybody.

Looking at Porsche 911's. I've had enough.
Cayman, hp? Aftermarket turbo boost, <6 lb, makes that puppy stand up & BARK!

Faster than a GT - imagine....

Love a Porsche! Cayman, unfortunately for me, 2+" too short for my tall boy frame. :cry:

Or, you could get FSD's for many less $. But heartily agree with you on 'Ultimate Driving Machine' - Porsche pretty good. Getting pretty complicated too.
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I'd like to see a revival of the E9, only slightly modernized, with a N/A I6, kept simple, no navi, no keyless entry, MT of course ....
 

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Cayman, hp? Aftermarket turbo boost, <6 lb, makes that puppy stand up & BARK!

Faster than a GT - imagine....

Love a Porsche! Cayman, unfortunately for me, 2+" too short for my tall boy frame. :cry:

Or, you could get FSD's for many less $. But heartily agree with you on 'Ultimate Driving Machine' - Porsche pretty good. Getting pretty complicated too.
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Not the early 997's. I drove a 2007 911 on Valentine's day. Has more legroom than the Cayman and the seatback can recline, since the engine is not directly behind the seatback. The suspension was no worse than my 328i's and that was with 19" Pirelli Zeros. The only things I didn't like-the rear window is a tiny slit; the passenger seatback must be vertical-otherwise your rear right side window is blocked and the damn right front wheel well is so big, it seriously intrudes on left leg room.
 

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The wonderful, naturally aspirated I6 were key points in my choosing to own an E46 and E90.

However, BMW continues to migrate towards forced induction. BMW state that the turbo 4 that will be in the F30 (next gen 3-series) will have better the NA I6 with respect to: fuel consumption, hp, torque. BMW's turbo diesel 3-series is a great engine. Turbo diesels in general are great engines, long overdue for further acceptance in North America. Today's turbos and superchargers have large eliminated turbo lag and offer broad powerbands just off idle, which are a pleasure to drive.

Other manufacturers are also moving to forced induction. Again, improved torque, hp, fuel consumption are the reasons. Even Hyundai introduced a turbo 4 in their latest family vehicle and have no plans for a NA 6. Their turbo 4 bests the competition on all fronts.

My worries are NVH (noise, harshness, vibration). How will the turbo 4 compare to an NA I6?

Oscar
 

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Not the early 997's. I drove a 2007 911 on Valentine's day. Has more legroom than the Cayman and the seatback can recline, since the engine is not directly behind the seatback. The suspension was no worse than my 328i's and that was with 19" Pirelli Zeros. The only things I didn't like-the rear window is a tiny slit; the passenger seatback must be vertical-otherwise your rear right side window is blocked and the damn right front wheel well is so big, it seriously intrudes on left leg room.
The early 997s (I owned a 2005 997S) have PASM, PSM, dynamic braking control, cupholders, navigation, drive-by-wire throttle (complete with lag), etc. All of the same little techno-gadgets the new 3-series has.

Porsche is going the same way as BMW. Having gone to a 993, I refer to my old 997 as a warmed over 3-series because it has all of the creature comforts and technology, just with more speed and a bit less interior room.
 

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Not the early 997's. I drove a 2007 911 on Valentine's day. Has more legroom than the Cayman and the seatback can recline, since the engine is not directly behind the seatback. The suspension was no worse than my 328i's and that was with 19" Pirelli Zeros. The only things I didn't like-the rear window is a tiny slit; the passenger seatback must be vertical-otherwise your rear right side window is blocked and the damn right front wheel well is so big, it seriously intrudes on left leg room.
love porsches too, and think they're much higher quality than BMWs, but they're not really an alternative for a 3 series. Most people would have to have a 911 + a more practical car...which means more $$$ even if you're talking a used 997. once you start comparing practical, decent looking and sporty cars, you're down to the GTI, S4 and a few 3 series models unfortunately
 

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I purposely bought a 2011 with a NA i6 since it sounds like its last year in production. Turbo engines are getting better, but they're not at the same reliability as their NA counterparts. Of course that only works in favor for BMW; ppl buy more cars. I'm thinking since almost every carmaker is moving to turbos that in about ten years (when I'll be buying again) those engines will hopefully have reached enough technological advancement that they'll be just as or incredibly close to the reliability of the NA i6. Even as it stands turbos aren't bad. The problem I think comes with BMWs idea of a maintenance schedule. Every engine needs regular maintenance, but turbos are more picky about it. I imagine that if you bought a turbo engine, threw out BMWs maintenance schedule, went back to more frequent service intervals, the turbo would last just as long as a NA... Really 18,000 mile oil changes in a turbo... you're just asking for trouble.
 

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Fortunately, the 4-cyl turbos they're sticking the in the next gen 3 series are not brand new. They've been using them in Europe for years. So it's not quite as bad as it sounds... as far as reliability goes anyway.

But honestly 4-cyl turbo vs NA i6.... the i6 is just so much more sexy.
 

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5 and 7-series that looks like the E38
You're joking, right? The F10 is the reincarnation of the E38 (specs are for Sport models):

2001 740i

Curb Weight 4255
Weight Distrib. 50.8/49.2
Horsepower 290
Torque 324
0-60 6.8
HP to weight ratio 14.67
HP/Liter 72.5
Fuel Capacity 22.5 US gal
Length 196.2 in
Width 73.3 in
Height 56.5 in
Wheelbase 115.4 in
Head Room, F/R 37.4/37.9
Leg Room, F/R 41.9/36.7
Shoulder Room, F/R 58.4/58.4
Trunk Capacity 13.0 cu. ft.
Wheels 18x8, 18x9.5
Tires 235 50/18, 255 45/18

2011 535i

Curb Weight 4090
Weight Distrib. 50.9/49.1
Horsepower 300
Torque 300
0-60 5.7
HP to weight ratio 13.63
HP/Liter 100
Fuel Capacity 18.5 US gal
Length 193.1 in
Width 73.2 in
Height 57.6 in
Wheelbase 116.9 in
Head Room, F/R 40.5/38.3
Leg Room, F/R 41.4/36.1
Shoulder Room, F/R 58.3/56.2
Trunk Capacity 18.4 cu. ft.
Wheels 19x8.5, 19x9.0
Tires 245 40/19, 275 35/19
 

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The early 997s (I owned a 2005 997S) have PASM, PSM, dynamic braking control, cupholders, navigation, drive-by-wire throttle (complete with lag), etc. All of the same little techno-gadgets the new 3-series has.

Porsche is going the same way as BMW. Having gone to a 993, I refer to my old 997 as a warmed over 3-series because it has all of the creature comforts and technology, just with more speed and a bit less interior room.
Only the 997 S and 4S come with PASM as standard. The base 911 and 911 4 do not have PASM as standard.
 

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love porsches too, and think they're much higher quality than BMWs, but they're not really an alternative for a 3 series. Most people would have to have a 911 + a more practical car...which means more $$$ even if you're talking a used 997. once you start comparing practical, decent looking and sporty cars, you're down to the GTI, S4 and a few 3 series models unfortunately
Yes. Nothing beats the practicality of a 3 Series sedan. If I get a 911, the wife gets my 328i.
So, she will take over posting here as my substitute. She will be posting in Tagalog.

NOT!!!!!!!!:tsk:
 

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That's why I just ordered a MT M3 sedan. I think it will be much more reliable in the end over the turbo engines, but time will tell.
 

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I've mentioned this on many occasions, but there are more and more gov't regulations that need to be met, regulations that affect the design and drivetrains.

Europe and the US continually mandate stricter emissions and fuel consumption standards, step by step. For example, the EURO 5 emissions tier kicked in last fall; the N54 along with the M57 diesel only met the EURO 4 standards, whereas the N55 and N57 meet the newer 5 standard. This is why the 335i and 335d (except North America) got new engines. In a few years, automakers will have to meet the EURO 6 standard, so expect more revisions.

A non-BMW example rests with Mazda: The RX-8 can longer be sold in the EU because the rotary engine does not meet the EURO 5 emissions standards.

The US has its CAFE standards. A smaller displacement turbo engine can produce fewer CO² and lower fuel consumption figures in the laboratory for certification purposes, where it matters most.

There are also regulations on pedestrian safety and how the bonnet/front of the vehicle is designed. The idea is that when a person is struck, there is sufficient space between the hood and any hard structures underneath (engine), and also so that injury to the person is minimised. There are also minimum bumper heights in the US as well.
 

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love porsches too, and think they're much higher quality than BMWs, but they're not really an alternative for a 3 series. Most people would have to have a 911 + a more practical car...which means more $$$ even if you're talking a used 997. once you start comparing practical, decent looking and sporty cars, you're down to the GTI, S4 and a few 3 series models unfortunately
The only Porsche that is an adequate daily driver is the Cayenne, which is the one Porsche that does nothing for me.
 

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Agree. I guess the Panamera is practical too, but its way too much money and way too ugly.
I agree. The Panamera looks like a distorted stretched-out 911. Ugly it is. Of course if someone dumped one on my doorstep, I may decide not to return it.:D
 

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Agree. I guess the Panamera is practical too, but its way too much money and way too ugly.
Can you imagine if Porsche got really aggressive and decided to build hot hatches and sport sedans?
 

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The only Porsche that is an adequate daily driver is the Cayenne, which is the one Porsche that does nothing for me.
Not true. Do you go to Home Depot and buy a bunch of lumber every day? Probably not. If you asked on rennlist you would see many use their cars as DDs. I do and carry 2 kids and their stuff to school on a regular basis, one summer it was 3. Yes I have a CR-V to use for stuff but I bet for most of your driving and running errands the 997 will be fine. You do know the frunk is smaller in the C4 and C4S if you are worried about that.

And I find the visibility to be excellent, better than the E60 I had.

Agree. I guess the Panamera is practical too, but its way too much money and way too ugly.
Can't argue with the looks, but the V-6 model is not insanely priced.

Wait a year or two and buy someone else's.
 
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