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Sleeper Wagon
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
BMW's automobile sales were down 14.2% in November to 13,728 versus 16,009 in the same month a year ago. Year-to-date sales are up 1.6%, to 156,841 automobiles compared to 154,372 in the same period of 2010.

Meanwhile over at Audi:
- Vehicle sales up 3.6% vs. November 2010, the current U.S. record
- With 104,906 vehicles already sold in 2011, Audi tops previous annual sales record of 101,629 set at the end of last year
- Sales of the redesigned Audi A6 luxury models were up 69.8% in the month

So what's everyone think?

Maybe all our "bitching" about quality issues, engineering/design decisions (heavier/softer F10, GT, run flats, etc.) have SOME merit and people are going elsewhere?

Let the fourm begin:soapbox:
 

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The whole fiasco can be summed as follows:

"Ultimate driving machine", campaign of the old versus "JOY" of the new.....

The old is daring marketing ala Steve Jobs, telling customers you have to have it and will want it. JOY is like I'll design cars to sell more of them to the masses, well you don't you end up pissing the loyal enthusiast away. BMW are you listening now...
 

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BMW sales in the US are driven mainly by leasing 3 series cars. BMW has, in recent years, needed to make some heavy write-downs for their lease programs. The residuals are set artificially high to lower the monthly payments. I remember one year ( 2010?) they had to take something like a $250 million hit. This is similar to the trap that GM got itself into years ago. Perhaps, the leases are not being subsidized so much anymore?

I think the 5 series and A6 do not matter so much, sales-wise. The A4 and 3 series are more important. I can tell you the A5 is selling very well in NJ, though.
 

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The consumer will end up in trap, buying Audi, as it was before, new model did good sales but then car is started fall apart after 2-3 years. Remember previous model (all round). Even Top Gear guys don't have a lot trust in Audi's reliability. Just look back, VW/Audi is one big electrical problem and they have never solved it. My first 82' VW passat (back in 1989)was discharging a battery over night, so I have installed breaker switch for battery, same problem was with other passat two decade later. Just look around, how many is e46 on street and A4? No brain, A4 is almost gone forever, same for A6 and e39, where are those all round A6's?
 

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I know this is an e60 forum, and so with all due respect to e60 folks...I will not purchase a BMW newer than e46/e39.

Not everyone thinks "more is better."
 

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Nac
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I respectfully disagree that the 5 series sales don't matter much. I've read that the 5 series is the most profitable vehicle on a per unit basis. Now the total profits may be higher from 3 series sales due to volume, but % profit leaders are important.
 

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Interesting statistic. I think several factors might be attributable to that, too. I wonder if a lot of people are not refraining from leasing a 3 series when the new model is around the corner. It is also a reflection of how competitive the market has become. While compared to the 3 series, the 5 series is small I think it is the most profitable car in the segment.
 

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I think if the 5 series was so critical ( volume X margin) it would have remained a separate platform and retained its sport sedan personality. It is now headed toward being a lower priced extention of the 7, I feel.
 

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Talking about Audi reliability, when researching extended warranties, I found couple of companies don't sell warranties for certain models of Audi and I think A4 was one of them.
 

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5-series contribute a good 25% of US total sales (not including Mini), that's significant. 3-series outnumber 5-series 3:1 in sales.
I bet my money the F10 sales is hurting due to weight and size of it, when you are a faster, agile fighter why would you bulk up and move up 1 class up agaisnt heavier hitter like A6 (A6 has 333HP stock engine at the same weight).
 

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To all complainers about their 535, I just got as loaner, it's more alive car then my 550,it's for sure, but is it faster I don't know. And more it's rainy, so I lost traction a lot, due more likely run flat tires. So it's true about RFT if it's because of it. Then I'm agree, BMW is going wrong way with this tires.

Also mpg is better on 535 then 550, on same ride I got 21mpg vs 19.5 on 550.
 

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1oz perception-1# obscure
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I read somewhere that the dealers had sold out of their initial 5 series allocation very quickly. I don't think 5 series sales are the problem - I'd rather guess that 3 series sales have slowed dramatically in anticipation of the F30.
 

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5-series contribute a good 25% of US total sales (not including Mini), that's significant. 3-series outnumber 5-series 3:1 in sales.
I bet my money the F10 sales is hurting due to weight and size of it, when you are a faster, agile fighter why would you bulk up and move up 1 class up agaisnt heavier hitter like A6 (A6 has 333HP stock engine at the same weight).
2012 model : ref this website http://www.zeroto60times.com/: 0-60 BMW is faster than Audi A6. BMW is 4 cyl - 6.5 sec, 6cyl - 5.5, Audi is 4 cyl - 6.9 sec, 6cyl- 5.7 sec
 

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1oz perception-1# obscure
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2012 model : ref this website http://www.zeroto60times.com 0-60 BMW is faster than Audi A6. BMW is 4 cyl - 6.5 sec, 6cyl - 5.5, Audi is 4 cyl - 6.9 sec, 6cyl- 5.7 sec
I'm not sure which car is faster, but that site doesn't have 2012 3 or 5 series information yet.
 

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1oz perception-1# obscure
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Hey Will,

Why do you so negative, the data for 2011 5-series is not enough for you to compare? Gees:dunno:
No, no...negative isn't my intention, and I don't think it's the way I am coming off.

You and I seem to have been in several different conversations recently, and in actuality I agree with very much of what you say. The trouble is that your supporting information is often outdated, wrong, or you don't have any.

In this case you made a post specifically asserting 0-60 times for 2012 BMW models and cited a website that does not have that information. In another thread you contended that the current Audi A6 and the VW Passat are built on the same chassis platform, which is demonstrably incorrect. In another, you criticized a guy for purchasing a new VW Touareg diesel because of the V-10 engine (that hasn't been sold in the US for years).

Don't think I am a bad guy...I am into robust discourse on these forums. The thing is, people come here for help and advice, and in cases make decisions based on what they read. I think it's the least we can do to provide accurate information.

How do you know I'm an artist, by the way?
 

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I saw your name on youtube, because I was searched for some music.

2012 and 2011 same BMW model currently in production. This a reason I didn't post data for 3-sereis and A4.
 

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1oz perception-1# obscure
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BMW's automobile sales were down 14.2% in November to 13,728 versus 16,009 in the same month a year ago. Year-to-date sales are up 1.6%, to 156,841 automobiles compared to 154,372 in the same period of 2010.
What's your source for this data? BMW released results today that show completely different data:

http://tiny.cc/0xjoo

Excerpt:

The BMW Group made gains in all regions and virtually all markets in the year to the end of November. In Europe, the region with the Group's highest sales, retail volumes increased 8.3% to reach a total of 775,834 units (prev. yr. 716,610). The company also experienced rigorous growth in Asia, with 342,176 vehicles sold (+33.4%/prev. yr. 256,443). China's dynamic sales growth continued: Sales have risen over 40% since the start of the year to 215,023 vehicles (40.7%/prev. yr. 152,866).

In Germany, the number of new BMW Group vehicles registered in November rose by 2.8% to 25,705 (prev. yr. 25,007). A total of 270,116 new vehicles have been registered since the start of the year ***8211; a substantial increase of 11.1% (prev. yr. 243,176). BMW brand registrations climbed to 233,660 units in the first eleven months of 2011(+9.0%/prev. yr. 214,389). A total of 22,491 new vehicles were registered in the month under review (+0.4%/prev. yr. 22.395). The MINI brand also reported strong growth in November with an increase of 23.0% to 3,214 vehicles (prev. yr. 2,612).

The U.S. also recorded positive sales growth. A total of 272,873 vehicles were sold in the year to the end of November ***8211; 14.6% more than the previous year (238,157). 26,271 vehicles were delivered to customers in the month under review (+14.8%/ prev. yr. 22,883).

The so-called BRIKT countries ***8211; Brazil (+49.0%/ 13,153), Russia (+38.8%/ 27,018), India (+62.6%/ 8,692), Korea (+44.0%/ 25,203) and Turkey (+59.7%/ 13,704) ***8211; reported high double-digit sales growth for the year to the end of November.


Further, directly comparable to the numbers you presented:

The BMW brand also reported the best November in its history. A total of 115,124 vehicles were delivered to customers worldwide in the month under review ***8211; an increase of 6.4% (prev. yr. 108.185).

U.S. Specific for November:

26,271 vehicles were delivered to customers in the month under review (+14.8%/ prev. yr. 22,883).
 

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So they are doing well despaite all problem with high pressure pump for -35 engines. I think, as we all are compared to AUDI, they broke confident in US consumer, by producing terrible A4 (B5 and some B6) and A6 (C5 and some C6)
 

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The problem with the US sales numbers, it's for BMW group which include Mini sales. BMW alone will never hit 270k unit per year in the US (it'll be a dream for BMW AG to be able to do so). So even one BMW specific models is way down the overall units maybe up, we need specific break down based on models, too bad Fred Meloan is no longer in the forum, he always have the numbers even break down within engine sizes.
 
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