[IndyMike]

According to this weeks edition of Auto Weak (sic) there is an interesting tid bit of information about Holden.

For those of you that don't know it, Holden is an Australian subsidiary for General Motors, and they market an interesting stable of vehicles for our Mates in the Land Down Under.

They also have a Special Vehicles (SV) branch, and according to the article GM's vice-chairman, Bob Lutz, is making a trip down there in order to determine if the below vehicle, the Holden SV GTS Coupe can be adapted for the States.
<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/roadfront.jpg>

<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/hero.jpg>

The car has a 5.7l V8, mated to a 6speed manual tranny, rated at 402hp!

If marketed in the U.S. the car would possibly be rebadged as Pontiac GTO's.

Personally, I'm more excited about the Senator sedan, but regardless, this shows me that Lutz has GM on the right track. He's got some very aggressive models lined up for the coming years, but it remains to be seen how many will actually come to fruition.

I've discounted GM as being a source for my cars since my 1980 Trans Am (underpowered, poorly built piece of hooey), but it's vehicles like the Holden that may make me relook this issue. Hopefully the build quality will not mirror vehicles that traditionally are produced by GM.

So what does everyone think about the other 'Holden' and Lutz's plans for GM in regards to vehicles like this?

 

[nate]

If the Holden coupe comes to the US, pleas don't let Potiac tack on 200lbs of plastic aerodynamic "enhancements"

GM does know how too make good cars (Corvette, Trucks), lets just hope they can do it for more models and more often.

 

[IndyMike]

If the Holden coupe comes to the US, pleas don't let Potiac tack on 200lbs of plastic aerodynamic "enhancements"

GM does know how too make good cars (Corvette, Trucks), lets just hope they can do it for more models and more often.

The car as it stands now definitely looks very 'aggressive', so I hope you're right in that they'll just leave it as is and not add anymore needless cosmetics=weight.

In case anyone's interested in this or any other Holden vehicles, you can look them up under http://www.hsv.com.au.

 

[ALEX325i]

Holden SV GTS Coupe can be adapted for the States.
<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/roadfront.jpg>

Is it just me or this car does look like a Cavalier with Impala headlights and mandatory cosmetic mods?

The car has a 5.7l V8, mated to a 6speed manual tranny, rated at 402hp!

Hmmm... Sounds like LS6 (Z06) small block V8...

Anyway, it would be cool if GM brought/produced such cars in the US. What ever happened to GM/Ford/Chrysler? Their current products are uninspiring at best...

 

[IndyMike]

Re: Re: Bob Lutz really might be able to save GM!

Is it just me or this car does look like a Cavalier with Impala headlights and mandatory cosmetic mods?



Hmmm... Sounds like LS6 (Z06) small block V8...

Anyway, it would be cool if GM brought/produced such cars in the US. What ever happened to GM/Ford/Chrysler? Their current products are uninspiring at best...

Actually it's an LS1 350, and I think it kinda looks more like the current Grand Prix, but with some real muscle under the hood.

What do you think of the Holden SV Senator?
<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au./cars/vx2/senator/alt/senatormainlarge.jpg>

To be honest I've seen more favorable looking pictures in the mags, but for a family guy like me it holds some intrigueing possibilities.

 

[IndyMike]

Or how about the Club Sport (hey don't we Bimmerphiles have one, too?)

<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au./cars/vx2/cs/alt/saffron2.jpg>

and another 3/4 shot:
<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au./cars/vx2/cs/alt/saffron1.jpg>

and here's a rear shot: (not sure if it has enough of a spoiler)
<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au./cars/vx2/cs/alt/saffron3.jpg>

 

[IndyMike]

And this is the Holden XU6:

Sort of looks like a earlier generation Lumina to me.

<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au./cars/vx2/xu6/alt/XU6lge.jpg>

 

[IndyMike]

And here's a Ute that they call the Maloo.

Should be called a Brute, instead of a Ute since it has the SVT V8 under the hood.

Regardless, based on its looks I'm not sure if it would make me turn from my Escape to 'skip to Maloo, my darlin'.:dunno: :dunno:

Didn't Dodge try to market something like this in the 80's based on their truck platform back then?

<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/maloo/alt/maloolge.jpg>

 

[IndyMike]

And here's their luxo-cruiser called the 'Grange' with a sport-tuned suspension.

Same LS1 350 aluminum block V8 that they apparently shoe-horn into the entire HSV line.

Not sure if the E65 in any trim wants to take on this wildcat.

Sort of looks like a Pontiac Bonneville with NSX taillights.

<img src=http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/grange/alt/image3.jpg>

 

[Kaz]

Holdens look fantastic on paper. But my Australian friends say their quality is about as good as US domestic GM (i.e. marginal). So product is one thing, but I don't think that alone will pull GM out of the crapper.

 

[ALEX325i]

I knew there was a little bit of Corvette in that car... Hmmm... Maybe there IS a little bit of Corvette in everything GM makes. Or is it the other way around?

Anyway, the LS1 small block V8 is the engine I had in my previous 98 (345HP) and 01 (350HP) Corvette's...

Looking at the additional pix, that car looks like a Cattera on steroids...

 

[SchwartzBlack]

HSV GTS R 300

There was an article in C&D last year about the HSV GTS R300, here's a quote:

"The BMW M5 looked like it had just fudged its pants. The cooling fan was gulping air, the hunky Michelin Pilot Sport tires were frayed at the edges, and the handsome aluminum wheels were runny with brake soot.
Over the sun-dappled mountains of Santa Barbara County, an ink-black mystery sedan had nipped incessantly at the M5's back bumper for three hours. The interloper's gaping meshed air ducts were never more than one turn away from inhaling the M5, even though to slip away the BMW had summoned every last tittle of grip, torque, and brake in its voluminous reserve.

We were aghast. The 394-hp BMW M5 is the king, the picture next to the word "car" in our dream dictionary since its introduction in 1999, when it began draining our reservoir of superlatives. We've hurled fine machinery at it, including the Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG and the Jaguar XJR ("Battle of the Best," March 2000), and watched the M5 grind them into the soil. It's an O'Neill drama, it's Whistler's mama, it's Camembert.

But as sure as Captain Cook's first words were "What rocks?" when he sailed into Botany Bay, there is a car from the Southern Hemisphere that has all the requisite fixings to be a challenger. It has four doors, a 402-hp V-8, a six-speed manual cog box, rear drive, and independently sprung wheels at all the corners. And the lucky Australians can be jitterbugging on its drilled stainless-steel pedals for about $24,000 less than what an M5 costs here.
Even more stupefying is the fact that the HSV GTS R 300 - is your inhaler standing by? - initially comes out of a General Motors factory only a couple of chromosomes off a Cadillac Catera. Yes, the Caddy they can't give away....."

read the whole article at http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...09_comparisontest_dundee.xml?keywords=Holden.

This is a serious M5 competitor!

 

[ALEX325i]

Re: HSV GTS R 300

...initially comes out of a General Motors factory only a couple of chromosomes off a Cadillac Catera. Yes, the Caddy they can't give away....."

I knew it! Look at my post right above yours... It does have Catera (sorry, misspelled it before) in it...

Edit:

Now, the thing is: does it DRIVE like an M5? Is it as refined as an M5 (not that refinement is that important, but the M5 is)? Power alone does nothing for me...

 

[SchwartzBlack]

A Catera that handles better than an M5???!!!

What has this world come to? The editors at C&D claimed that the HSV was more fun than the M5, had more communicate steering (might be becos of M5's Recirculating ball setup), and felt more connected. The Final verdict was "Friskier in the hills than the M5"

 

[IndyMike]

Re: Re: HSV GTS R 300

I knew it! Look at my post right above yours... It does have Catera (sorry, misspelled it before) in it...

Edit:

Now, the thing is: does it DRIVE like an M5? Is it as refined as an M5 (not that refinement is that important, but the M5 is)? Power alone does nothing for me...

Apparently in some handling areas it eclipsed the M5. But their final comment does put it into perspective, "The GTS R is no M5, but it's closer in constitution than anything we've driven and anything we ever expected to drive from General Motors."

And let's face it with the R300, value to value you get M3 pricing with M5 amenities (i.e. 4 doors). As much as I love the M5, the price is simply staggering. Unless BMW markets an M3/4, if GM were to market this vehicle in the U.S. I would be a fool not to consider it as a candidate for the IndyMike stable of cars.

I wonder what the LS6 engine would add to this vehicles capabilities.

Regardless, this is the best opportunity for GM to mount a challenge to the Europeans.

The products are there. Lutz just needs to figure out how to homologate and assimilate them into the GM lineup.

Is the sleeping giant about to be aroused from its long slumber?

 

[ALEX325i]

Re: Re: Re: HSV GTS R 300

Oh, most definitely. I'm actually glad that GM is a contender... It's a shame the American cars became so uninspiring... The GTS R could definitely stir things up.

Yup. I saw that it costs $24K less than the M5. Even if it doesn't drive quite like an M5, you gotta factor in the huge price difference...

Well, if they extracted another 52HP from the LS1, I wonder what they could do with the LS6... Anyway, if they simply put the LS6 in, power gain would be only 3HP...

Apparently in some handling areas it eclipsed the M5. But their final comment does put it into perspective, "The GTS R is no M5, but it's closer in constitution than anything we've driven and anything we ever expected to drive from General Motors."

And let's face it with the R300, value to value you get M3 pricing with M5 amenities (i.e. 4 doors). As much as I love the M5, the price is simply staggering. Unless BMW markets an M3/4, if GM were to market this vehicle in the U.S. I would be a fool not to consider it as a candidate for the IndyMike stable of cars.

I wonder what the LS6 engine would add to this vehicles capabilities.

Regardless, this is the best opportunity for GM to mount a challenge to the Europeans.

The products are there. Lutz just needs to figure out how to homologate and assimilate them into the GM lineup.

Is the sleeping giant about to be aroused from its long slumber?

 

[Dan]

Those of you under 40 probably can't imagine this, but until the mid to late seventies, General Motors was the world's most successful corporation, and they consistently produced vehicles of superior engineering and quality. GM had well over 50% of the U.S. market share, and Cadillacs were considered "the standard of the world."

GM is a case study in what went wrong - they stopped focusing on the product. In the seventies, they were sidetracked by newly introduced legislation controlling emission, fuel economy and safety standards. They took their eye off the product, and have been in a downward spiral ever since.

When I was a kid in the 60's, a Cadillac was the ultimate aspirational vehicle for almost every adult. Now, the aspirational vehicles are Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. The fall of Cadillac is an American tragedy.

If anyone can save GM, it is Bob Lutz. The solution is so simple it is ridiculous - focus on the product. If they build superior vehicles, people will buy them. It is that simple. Why they haven't figured this out is a mystery to me.

 

[ALEX325i]

I agree.

Well, I don't know about you, but IMO, the Corvette Team hasn't lost focus. Sure, the C5 is more "everyday car" than ever, but it's also the best ever produced (IMO that is). I've had two C5's - 98 & 01 - and every time I rode in a 96 C4 a friend of mine has, the C5 superiority was evident... I hope the C6 gets even better...

Those of you under 40 probably can't imagine this, but until the mid to late seventies, General Motors was the world's most successful corporation, and they consistently produced vehicles of superior engineering and quality. GM had well over 50% of the U.S. market share, and Cadillacs were considered "the standard of the world."

GM is a case study in what went wrong - they stopped focusing on the product. In the seventies, they were sidetracked by newly introduced legislation controlling emission, fuel economy and safety standards. They took their eye off the product, and have been in a downward spiral ever since.

When I was a kid in the 60's, a Cadillac was the ultimate aspirational vehicle for almost every adult. Now, the aspirational vehicles are Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. The fall of Cadillac is an American tragedy.

If anyone can save GM, it is Bob Lutz. The solution is so simple it is ridiculous - focus on the product. If they build superior vehicles, people will buy them. It is that simple. Why they haven't figured this out is a mystery to me.

 

[Dan]

I agree.

Well, I don't know about you, but IMO, the Corvette Team hasn't lost focus. Sure, the C5 is more "everyday car" than ever, but it's also the best ever produced (IMO that is). I've had two C5's - 98 & 01 - and every time I rode in a 96 C4 a friend of mine has, the C5 superiority was evident... I hope the C6 gets even better...

Alex, I agree with you about the Corvette folks - they are the one shining light in GM's otherwise dismal automobile product portfolio, IMO.

Over the years, I've had the chance to drive a lot of Corvettes, thanks to a friend of mine who used to get a new Vette every year. I like the C5 a lot - have actually thought about getting one, but there's that problem of 2 kids and no back seat. My friend currently has a 2002 Z06 - he says it is unquestionably the best Corvette he has ever owned, and he has had Vettes since the mid-60's. That says a lot about the C5.

I never liked the C4 (rough riding rattle trap, terrible interior and instrument panel), but I loved the C3, and I will probably buy a C3, either a 1970 or a 1971, as a weekend toy if I ever get bored with my MG.

 

[ff]

It looks to have the body of the Lumina, and the nose of the Grand Prix.

If it came to the states, here's how it would appear:

GM 3.8 V6 rated at 165 HP
front wheel drive
800 pounds of ribbed, body-side cladding
automatic transmission (of course)
bouncy, fluffy suspension

...In other words, if they brought it over here, it would be just another GM.