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superwagon pilot
'17 991.2C, '19 e450 wagon, 11 135iC, 09 x3
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The only facelift that looks better than '01 is the 330i with the Sport Package and the M Technik bumper. Repost that pic with a 325i and the the overly small headlights and see the response.
The 2001 330i sports looked better than all the other 2001 sedans and wagons too.:tsk:
 
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I agree with Josh. That's an apples to oranges comparison.

Compare that 2002 with my former 2001 330i w/SP (www.geocities.com/td304/BMW/) or compare those 2001s with a non-SP 2002 sedan.

The only argument worth arguing (and that's a stretch) is if the 2002 330i w/SP looks better than the 2001 330i w/SP (the only real difference being the headlights and grill).

All other 2001 sedans inarguably look better than all other 2002 sedans. And the 330i w/SP models from either year look better than the non-SP models from either year.

So, in your comparison, of course the 2002 sedan looks better. But it's not a meaningful comparison.
 

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well surely that would mean that its the new standard bumper at fault not the facelift. I just find it amazing at how badly certain people are are reacting to the facelift when

a) its not a massively radical change anyway
b) it is definately sleeker, and more aggresive with the sp bumper which most people here order

the critics of the 02 are either sore pre 02 owners, who just cant face the fact that there MAY be cars that look better than their own, or people that are against anything remotely sophisticated and refined looking.

We all own great cars here, Id just like to see a more fair analysis of the 02's, i.e. criticise the non - sp bumper instead of saying the whole car is ugly.

sorry, had to get that out, rant over.
 
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ChetG said:
well surely that would mean that its the new standard bumper at fault not the facelift. I just find it amazing at how badly certain people are are reacting to the facelift when

a) its not a massively radical change anyway
b) it is definately sleeker, and more aggresive with the sp bumper which most people here order

the critics of the 02 are either sore pre 02 owners, who just cant face the fact that there MAY be cars that look better than their own, or people that are against anything remotely sophisticated and refined looking.

We all own great cars here, Id just like to see a more fair analysis of the 02's, i.e. criticise the non - sp bumper instead of saying the whole car is ugly.

sorry, had to get that out, rant over.
Chet-

As someone who got rid of a 2001 to purchase a 1998, I am definitely not someone to get worked up over not having the latest model (notice I did not say greatest). And ugly is still ugly.

Yes, the lower fascia (bumper?) on the non-SP is by far the worst feature. But the revised headlight/grill area on all 2002 sedans/wagons is still a large step in the wrong direction, IMO. It manages to look less and less like a BMW and, worse, looks "trendy" (meaning it'll look like shit in a few years rather than look timeless like earlier BMWs do).

Even worse, it strongly implies that the styling of ALL BMWs is headed in the E65 direection. And only about 3 or 4 guys here would say that's a good thing (and I still think they need medication).
 

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TD,

I suppose everyones entitled to an opinion, but you have to agree, ure views are, well, different ;) ,

My point was that if you agree that the 2002 sp looks as good if not better than the pre 02's w sp (the most popular combo), and the bumpers are the same in both situations, by your own reckoning, the rest of the facelift is as good, if not better than the non facelift cars. Talking of apples and oranges, your comparing cars with different bumpers, surely to reach a fair and informed decision, we must compare the cars with the same bumpers, and the sp is the only bumper hsared betwen models.

I know nobody will ever convince you of anything, and i do understand where your coming from with all the trendy/timeless thing, but we really cant judge how a model so subtly modified will stand up to time.

btw, ill also be getting an e36 m3 in a couple of weeks, its just that this one will have over 300hp :flipoff:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ChetG said:
well surely that would mean that its the new standard bumper at fault not the facelift. I just find it amazing at how badly certain people are are reacting to the facelift when

a) its not a massively radical change anyway
b) it is definately sleeker, and more aggresive with the sp bumper which most people here order

the critics of the 02 are either sore pre 02 owners, who just cant face the fact that there MAY be cars that look better than their own, or people that are against anything remotely sophisticated and refined looking.

We all own great cars here, Id just like to see a more fair analysis of the 02's, i.e. criticise the non - sp bumper instead of saying the whole car is ugly.

sorry, had to get that out, rant over.
I'd have to agree with Chet 100%. Its not the facelift that people have a problem with its the 325i bumper that many people have a problem with. I'd say that 98% of the people here agree that the 2002 325i bumper and 330i non-sp is a step down. But so many people say that the "facelift" sucks when the facelift is actually 2 steps ahead of the non-facelifted e46's. Most of the people that say the entire facelift sucks are sore, baised, non-facelift e46 owners who secretly want a "facelifted" 330i w/sp.

And its not apples to oranges when you consider the 328i lead into what is now the 330. Maybe the 325i non-sp compared to the 330i sp is a stretch but its not apples to oranges. Maybe granny smith's to red delicious but still apples considering they are all sedans.

Like I said on fanatics "everyone has their own opinion, baised or not"
 

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superwagon pilot
'17 991.2C, '19 e450 wagon, 11 135iC, 09 x3
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ChetG said:
TD,

I suppose everyones entitled to an opinion, but you have to agree, ure views are, well, different ;) ,

My point was that if you agree that the 2002 sp looks as good if not better than the pre 02's w sp (the most popular combo), and the bumpers are the same in both situations, by your own reckoning, the rest of the facelift is as good, if not better than the non facelift cars. Talking of apples and oranges, your comparing cars with different bumpers, surely to reach a fair and informed decision, we must compare the cars with the same bumpers, and the sp is the only bumper hsared betwen models.

My problem with the '02s is inorder to get one that looks GOOD (330i sp), you now have to spend what like $6k-$7k (upcharge over the 325i for the 3.0 and sport package) more than you did in '01. Basically what you're saying here is the 325i in any configuration and the base 330 is no longer a good looking vehichle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Josh (PA) said:


My problem with the '02s is inorder to get one that looks GOOD (330i sp), you now have to spend what like $6k-$7k (upcharge over the 325i for the 3.0 and sport package) more than you did in '01. Basically what you're saying here is the 325i in any configuration and the base 330 is no longer a good looking vehichle.
You don't need to spend an extra 6-7 g's to get a good looking front bumper. All you have to do is get the M-technic bumper for 600 bucks. Thats unpainted and not installed of course. Figure on another $400-500 bucks to get that done right. But yeah the stock bumper on a 325i or 330i non-sp is pretty much a$$. But the rest of the facelift is better.
 

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I like cookies.
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ugh....I can't comment on the comparison because I don't like any of the cars in the picutre. I hate white, they are all ugly to me.

Why did BMW have to put that stupid gray trim on the 330 headlights? ugh!

My favorite E46s sedans that I have loved are all 99-00 328 or 01 325 SP's with type 44s. A few weeks ago, I was drooling over a Steel Gray/Black 01 325i SP. I don't like the way TD's car looks in the link he posted. It doesn't look right with clears and the gray trim needs to be replaced with black. M68s are played out too :thumbdwn:

FYI, I am assuming that I was referred as one who needed medication. I do NOT like the E65 because of its look (the eyebrows can still be awkward), I like the whole package (drive, technology, comfort, etc.)
 

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Josh (PA) said:


My problem with the '02s is inorder to get one that looks GOOD (330i sp), you now have to spend what like $6k-$7k (upcharge over the 325i for the 3.0 and sport package) more than you did in '01. Basically what you're saying here is the 325i in any configuration and the base 330 is no longer a good looking vehichle.
I disagree... I mean, what's changed? :dunno: The same applies for pre-02's... The 330i SP looked better than 325i/330i non-SP and the price difference was also 6-7K... I'm saying this because I was never too crazy about the 325i/330i non-SP front bumper (and fog lights, which is most people's gripe on the 02's) either...
 

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2001 M3:Stick, what else?
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ALEX325i said:


I disagree... I mean, what's changed? :dunno: The same applies for pre-02's... The 330i SP looked better than 325i/330i non-SP and the price difference was also 6-7K... I'm saying this because I was never too crazy about the 325i/330i non-SP front bumper (and fog lights, which is most people's gripe on the 02's) either...
But at least the original non-330 bumper was civilized looking and acceptable. Sure the 330's sport bumpers are nicer. But now you HAVE to buy the 330 to get a decent looking car.

And here in Canada I CAN'T buy any E46 sedan because there is ONLY the bugly bumpered one available... even on the 330i SP. Blech!

On the upside... perhaps the 2003 330 sedans will have the M-sport pkg as an option as the 2002 coupes& cabs do! :)
 

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JPinTO said:


But at least the original non-330 bumper was civilized looking and acceptable. Sure the 330's sport bumpers are nicer. But now you HAVE to buy the 330 to get a decent looking car.

And here in Canada I CAN'T buy any E46 sedan because there is ONLY the bugly bumpered one available... even on the 330i SP. Blech!

On the upside... perhaps the 2003 330 sedans will have the M-sport pkg as an option as the 2002 coupes& cabs do! :)
Well, to each his own I guess. I like the facelift. Sure, I'm not dumping my 01 325i in favor of a 02, nor am too crazy about the 325i/330i non-SP small fog lights, but like I said in my previous post, it's not like I'm crazy about the pre-02 325i/330i non-SP front bumper (and foglights) either (having owned a 00 323Ci and 02 M3 has a LOT to do with that)...
 

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Personally, I thought it wasn't an improvement over the '01s at all...The changes are all merely cosmetic and not for the better nor for the worse. However, if it ain't broke, why fix it? The '01s, despite the cheesy titanium trims, are already one of the best looking sedans on the road, why mess with something that's already perfect?

EDIT: Instead of them spending research and development money on coming up with the facelift and having to spend an oodle of cash on making changes to the production line to fix something that ain't broken, why not spend that money in coming up with a more effective weatherseal or a shock mount that won't tear through in 20,000 miles?
 

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The HACK said:
Personally, I thought it wasn't an improvement over the '01s at all...The changes are all merely cosmetic and not for the better nor for the worse. However, if it ain't broke, why fix it? The '01s, despite the cheesy titanium trims, are already one of the best looking sedans on the road, why mess with something that's already perfect?

EDIT: Instead of them spending research and development money on coming up with the facelift and having to spend an oodle of cash on making changes to the production line to fix something that ain't broken, why not spend that money in coming up with a more effective weatherseal or a shock mount that won't tear through in 20,000 miles?
Damn right.
 

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OJ330i said:

Most of the people that say the entire facelift sucks are sore, baised, non-facelift e46 owners who secretly want a "facelifted" 330i w/sp.
Looking at that picture I can honestly say I still prefer the older models.

1. I am speaking purely of the headlights and grills, although I do dislike the new taillights.

2. jealousy isn't an issue. I have no problem stating that MBs are great looking cars even though I would never buy one. E65s are ugly and there's not a speck of jealousy there.

Also it has nothing to do with an aversion to change... I like the E30 looks, I dislike the E36 looks, I like the E46 pre-facelift looks, I like the facelifted E46 looks less.

3. when I first saw the facelift, I thought it looked more feminine. I have grown more accustomed to it -- why do I have to keep saying that about new BMWs? Right now, I like it, but I still prefer the older style. Yes the new look is more modern, but to me it pushes the distinct BMW look closer to every other car out there [talking about the headlights]. The grill is bigger but it de-emphasizes the kidney-frame which is the part I like. Minor stuff, but that's why I prefer the 2001.

I'm not putting down the 2002s but you brought it up and can't seem to understand people's difference in opinion. When I bought my car, I could have gotten a coupe or sedan. I honestly prefer the looks of the sedan, but lots of coupe owners can't understand it. Enjoy your car, and I'll enjoy mine.

kurt
 

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I'm with the haters. SP bumper or not, the ****** lights are horrendous, as are the high side markers and different taillights.

I still cringe every time I see an 02 on the road. :thumbdwn:
 
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