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CCV Delete => Catch Can Install procedure

158K views 83 replies 26 participants last post by  Bmwe39528i  
#1 · (Edited)
Problem description

Original BMW design of the Crank Case Ventilation (CCV) device is extremely inefficient and failure-prone device. What is worse, its failure causes some serious damage to the whole engine. To add salt to injury, the worst failures happen in sub-zero temps when you really need your machine to be reliable. In certain parts of the world and in certain times the design of this kind would be considered sabotage.

While this and other BMW forums contain multiple descriptions of CCV delete procedure, I failed to find any really clear step-by-step ones.

What is being done
1. CCV completely removed.
2. Additional maintenance work "while you are there" - as required.
3. The oil catch can and a PCV valve introduced into the CCV circuit.

Goals
1. Eliminate a failure point that can cause complete engine break-down.
2. Eliminate water vapor and gunk from lubrication system
3. Eliminate or substantially decrease engine oil consumption.

Difficulty Level - 4/10.
It may look scary before you commence, but all it really takes is patience. And I cannot overstress the importance of good lighting. A regular portable 110V light with a 60W equivalent LED bulb is cheap and very effective. And even if you crash the bulb, it still works.
And finally, unless you have some super-strong back muscles or are really errrr…. vertically challenged, put the vehicle on ramps.

Materials

1. Oil catch can.

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While there are dozens of cheap alternatives on fleabay, I selected this variant.
Positives: transparent, so I can easily monitor the level of "pulp"; it is glass, not plastic; internal vapor filter; quality construction.
Negatives: it is pretty expensive, would prefer larger volume.

Cheaper alternative

Image

Negatives - it is made of plastic, too small volume, questionable drainage design.

2. Oil-resistant 3/4" & 3/8" 250 psi hoses (5ft of each in case you have botched a piece and need to recut them). with this psi rating the hose is stiff enough to prevent flattening with vacuum.
3. Connecting fittings
4. Hose clamps
5. Heavy duty heat shrink boot for electrical connections.
6. Some bracket or holder for the catch can
7. ***1052;6 lock nuts (2 ea).

What we do
1.
Remove the CCV. There are dozens of perfectly documented procedures already, just search them. I'll just outline the main steps:
  • Remove the intake, MAF and the throttle.
  • Cut off or break the plastic hoses to the CCV body.
  • Pull the rotten contraption out.
  • Plug the oil dipstick outlet.
If you are really lazy or in a rush, then just chop off the hoses as indicated and plug off the dipstick outlet.

2.
While you are at it, spend 10 minutes to remove DISA and check if its mechanism is good. I caught mine just before the failure with its pin travelling into the guts of the intake manifold and further. German Auto Solutions repair kit is a marvel worth every penny (but there will take lots of them).

3.
To simplify the install I used the original connectors from the CCV hoses. I cut the flex pipe parts off, leaving only the thick-walled quick disconnect pieces for further use. Clean of all dirt and burrs and install the hoses. Make sure the hoses are sat tight to avoid vacuum leaks.
Image

4.
I kept the thin connector pipe that goes to the manifold far end as it was nearly new and clean.
5.
Cut of the oil drain rubber hose on the dipstick and plug it.
4.
Install the catch can. I used the stck bracket that came with the can and located it on the left fender bracket as shown below, using the threaded pins already welded in place. They are M6 thread.
Image


5.
Âľ" hose connects the outlet on the cam cover with the catch can inlet and the catch can outlet with the FRAM FV345 PCV valve (off a 3.2/3.5L Chrysler engine).

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After that I used 3/8" hose that goes all way to the modified BMW connector that plugs into the manifold in the front. I do not like the way I routed the 3/8" hose as it sags too much down, and eventually may modify that part.
5.
Install hose clamps as necessary to prevent any vacuum leaks and maintain the integrity of connections.

General view
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Detailed view
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Effectiveness.
The mod was completed and tried at -25degC (-13F for US folks). It took about 300 km (200 miles) of non-stop drive at 60-70 mph to fill the catch can with a yellow stinky mix of water condensate and oil vapor. It pains to see this pulp going into the oil pan.
Then the car was parked outside for a few hours and the same drive back - this time resulting only in ½ of the can filled with yellow gunk.

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So far I racked up about 2000 km after all my mods and all my goals are met:
  • 0 oil consumption detected (but I will need more kms put down to reliably claim that)
  • I check several times the hose between the PCV valve and the intake and only saw a few clean droplets of oil there.

And by the way, if anybody is interested in exchanging a perfectly working SAP assembly, stock water pump and the CCV body for a bottle or two of rose wine (one from Dirty Laundry Winery in BC would be awesome thank you very much), please feel free to chime in. I am in Calgary.
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5 years update.
The system has been implemented in 4 M54 units (3 E39, 1 E46). Cumulative mileage for them is now over 100,000 miles. No issues with any of the engines. In fact, I notice they run much smoother and breathe more freely.
Now, I made some changes to the original setup based on the operation operation of the first car.

First, after running the system for a while I added a vacuum regulator to keep the vacuum balance. I do not recall the spec numbers, but now if you try to open an oil filler cap when the engine idles, it is slightly sucked to the cam cover. The vacuum regulator is an adjustable valve from amazon that I set up using vacuum gage. The valve is installed on the previously capped "branch" of the oil dipstick Y-tube via a 3/8 hose and clamps. On top of the valve I put a K&N breather

Second, I rerouted the hoses and repositioned the catch can. It now sits behind the power steering bottle, between the engine and air filter box. It is now a bit more difficult to get to and empty. But the advantage is that the hose to the can and the can itself in winter warm up instantly and always stay hot, so the condensation does not accumulate as fast. Warm vapors just fly through into the intake.

The overall view with the vacuum regulator and filter.

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The E46 is tighter and I could not put the can in the same spot. So I had to get inventive and made a nice bracket with a heat shild to hang the catch can on the right strut turret behind the washer tank, using existing threaded connections that it had. Unfortunately, the pictures were all lost.
 
#36 ·
^no doubt. I'll probably do the same as eparayno. I can't see the point in paying, or hassling myself with CCV job when I can leave it in place for now and do this myself... I can understand some people's ambivalence, but I think I will take the dive this summer. Thanks!

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8256010&postcount=194
 
#38 · (Edited)
Hello, I wanted to reply in order to get some information for my catch can setup.

I have an M54, and recently put a catch can in place. I put a PCV I found at Autozone in it with unknown flow/intended use.
I took my car out after installing everything, and after warming up the engine over 20 miles or so I ran through the gears a couple of times. I blew my VCG badly. Oil was everywhere, and I lost 3-4 QUARTS of oil. :cry:

Do you guys think I used too small of a PCV valve? Do you think I could get away without a PCV valve? I don't fully understand the PCV valve function without a turbo that pressurizes the intake.
my lines are shorter than yours to my oil catch can (mine is where my old SAP used to be) and I placed the PCV on the crankcase side just before the catch can. I believe pressure built up inside of my crankcase and blew out the valve cover gasket. 3 quarts in only 30 miles were lost, and oil was sprayed from the valve cover all the way over to my DISA, and my hood was even coated in some oil. I was very surprised.

Thank you for any information you can provide.
 
#39 ·
I put a PCV I found at Autozone in it with unknown flow/intended use.
I took my car out after installing everything... I blew my VCG badly. Oil was everywhere

Do you guys think I used too small of a PCV valve? Do you think I could get away without a PCV valve? I don't fully understand the PCV valve function without a turbo that pressurizes the intake.
Sorry to hear about the blowout.
The PCV function in NA engines is to prevent opposite air flow in case of backfire or when there is positive pressure in the intake (it does not always have strong vacuum there, like when the throttle is fully open).

Firstly, check if you installed the PCV correctly - it should let air pass freely out of the cam cover and prevent flow into the cam cover. If you reverse it, then the pressure will build real quick and you will have the blowout.

Secondly, reposition the PCV after the catch can - otherwise it creates unnecessary obstruction to the sludge (liquified goo-y mix of water and oil vapor + blowby gasses) that is sucked out from under the cam cover. If you tried to run the system in a colder and humid environment, then I can easily see this kind of outcome with the PCV in front of the catch can becoming a plug and prompting the pressure build-up.

You can certainly run without the PCV, but then it becomes absolutely mandatory to add the vacuum regulator of some sort to avoid your seals being sucked in (you will immediately hear the whistle at idle RPM).
That is why my setup has both the PCV AND the vac regulator.

Hope that helps.

K-L
 
#41 · (Edited)
The PCV valve - is this how yours is?

I used a PCV for some Chrysler 3.5 engine, but any for a NA engine of a roughly similar CC capacity will do.

PCV valve being on the wrong side is what caused it. It had sludge in it, and temperatures dropped below 0 last night. It likely froze overnight. I would rather remove the PCV valve so that this can't happen again, even if it were much less likely on the vacuum side.

I never ever had issues with a PCV packing up, even with sustained (read 7-8 hours) criuising at 70 mph with -20degF outside. Once the water vapors pass the hose to the catch and contact with the can, they turn into liquid phase. Unless you let the contents overflow and get sucked in the line past the catch can, there is nothing in there to pack the line and the PCV.

Could you please elaborate on the vacuum regulator?

I used this little guy from Amazon. I installed it into the outlet from the dipstick (that previously was connected to a drain from CCV).
I cannot remember the exact number on the vac gage, but if you let the vac build at idle and then try to unscrew and lift the oil filler cap, there should be some resistance - not very slight, not very strong, just enough you can overcome with one hand without too much effort.

Thank you very much![/QUOTE]
You are most welcome.

My installation on the second vehicle now looks like this. The bracket is temporary, I will redo it in a more professionally looking way later.
 

Attachments

#44 ·
I ordered the vacuum regulator and understand what it's doing in that position now. What size tube is coming from the oil dip stick to the vacuum regulator? Mine wasn't long enough to reach up to where you put yours, so I need to either install the vacuum regulator from underneath the car or put a new, longer tube in place of the existing CCV oil tube. It looked like a 1/2" ID tube to me.
 
#45 ·
For the life of me I do not remember the dia. of the return line. It should be either 1/2 or 5/8.
Regardless, remove the OEM hose, it is crap and does not last. Use calipers to confirm the size. Then buy a sturdy oil-resistant rubber or silicone hose and cut it so that it is long enough to route the vac regulator to the top, where it can be easily reached. The regulator screws into the hose and then secure it with a clamp over the threaded part. Also install a clamp over the part of this hose that connects to the dipstick "Y" as it can slide off (ask me how I know).
 
#49 · (Edited)
Interesting, you've gone with a normal PCV system. My friend that gave me my catch can removed his factory PCV system because he didn't like the oil vapors being dragged into the intake manifold. That system must produce more intake manifold oil vapor than factory, yes? Still, you are removing the factory CCV system which is really the point. Oh, and more vacuum to the crankcase, no return oil into the pan...
 
#50 ·
Little tip to those that are interested out there. When purchasing a PCV valve to hook up to your engine, go with one that is for an engine with more displacement as the one in your ride. The one I'm using is for a 4.7 V8 engine and works fine out and about, but is still a little slow on removing gases at say 80 mph. Will be switching out the valve to one for a 5.7 engine in the next few days. Just added another 120 miles today on my new set up and the exhaust pipe is almost white, it's so clean. Didn't drive any high speeds on this trip, but noticed out on the freeway, at 80 I was getting a bit of blow by.
 
#51 ·
So I added the PCV valve. Even with the valve I have and the vacuum regulator completely open, there is still quite a bit of crankcase vacuum. I also noted that the idle was more rough while the regulator was open with no valve inline. I feel like using this regulator might be a bad idea, because you're allowing unmetered air to flow in at idle. I wish I could be rid of the potential hazard of the valve, but the vacuum was too great. Something needs to restrict it. I have no idea what my PCV valve was made for, so I don't know if it's oversized or not, but with the amount of extra vacuum I have I'm going to assume that it is oversized.
 
#56 ·
It probably would, but you would be the one to figure out how to do it. I first came up with this back 6 or 7 years ago, and it's been improved on ever since. I haven't seen a system thought of or built for the V8 's as of yet. If I come by one in the works that I read, I will send it to you.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Catch can with filter.

New here, I am a retired ASE Master mechanic, but I worked on Asian and domestic. The question is I have a 2002 530i I6 just bought $700.00 needs work and my first project is a complete cooling sys overhaul under intake pipes leaking, first on the list, I have bought all the CCV parts and also a catch can and the can has a filter you can install, would it be better to install the original CCV or the catch can and would the filter on the can vent it so it won't over negative pressure the sys? I have a whole laundry list of repairs to do. And it won't be easy as I'm disabled and it is very hard for me to do any work.

All you people here with everything have read has been so helpful, THANK YOU ALL

P.S. I live in Las Vegas, NV
 
#60 · (Edited)
I would do without a CCV as it is a very flawed contraption and will fail. Usually at the least convenient time. And it's a pig to remove-install. Use the write-up I put in the first topic in this thread. Add a vacuum regulator valve to maintain healthy - but not excessive - dose of vacuum. I am not sure what kind of "filter" your catch can has. if it is a strainer on the outlet - it should be there. If it is a breather to atmosphere - it is not needed as the catch can connects to the intake manifold.

On cooling system - depending on the purpose of the project and your budget. If you want a keeper or fix up and flip? If the former, then remove all antifreeze and switch over to Evans coolant. Use hi-performance Stweart water pump with it. As well, I'd strongly recommend "cooling" your thermostat. Writeup here

I,ve been using this setup (catchcan+vacuum reg, Evans and cold thermostat) on 2 our E39s, one has been running like that for 3 years and 55k miles and they run like a charm in any weather.

However, if you intend to flip it soon, just go with the factory setup. People often get scared since they cannot understand the reasoning behind it.
 
#61 ·
Keeping it.

I am fixing this up for my roommate (caregiver) because he is using my Dodge Grand Caravan and it is my baby (love my Dodge) he has already been in an accident with my van and I do not want it damaged anymore, he bent the radiator and A/C Condenser and the core support. I know my domestic vehicles and my van very well it's not a problem to fix it so when I get the BMW running I will only drive my van. But as I said I know little to nothing about BMW, but 40 yrs as a master auto technician helps.

Thanks for your help.
 
#62 ·
Well, if the caregiver managed to ding a van, then somehow I'd think that a BMW, a car that really invites you to go faster and corner harder, is not the best choice. :) But that is your business and your choice.
Since you plan to keep it, go with what I suggested and forget about the cooling system and CCV for good. Feel free to ask if you have questions. Good luck
 
#67 ·
I've got it sitting in a box... for over a month... been busy and I think I will just let my tech do it!