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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Interestingly, that confused me because Aioros' routing points conflicted with cn90's information (valve cover) and that of realoem.

So, I went with the cn90 & realoem end points when I annotated the diagram and cn90's picture (which we both annotated) as shown below.

RDL: For those E39's that 'do' have the vacuum hose, can you hazard a guess as to WHAT it does and whether the direction of vacuum is IN or OUT?

Normally I'd 'assume' the direction of vacuum is OUT but there are two huge hoses within inches of that vacuum line which are connected directly to manifold vacuum (not to the VANOS) ... so that's why I ask if the vacuum is inward or outward in that small line.

The vacuum hose is a mystery to me. Maybe to BMW as well, since they deleted it in later versions.

From the picture, it appears to simply connect the inlet manifold to the crankcase via the vent pipe. This vacuum hose defeats the spring & diaphram vacuum regulator in the upper chamber when crankcase vacuum reaches the regulator's limit (lowest pressure / highest vacuum desired) The vacuum hose would continue to route blowby out of the crankcase to the inlet manifold and further increase vacuum (reduce pressure) while the regulator is trying to reduce vacuum in the crankcase. I can't think of a set of circumstances when this would be desirable.

I'm not sure what you mean by the direction of vacuum. Vacuum means that the pressure is lower than atmospheric, it doesn't have a direction. Here, the vacuum hose will have high vacuum (pressure much below atmoshperic) on the inlet manifold end and lower vacuum (pressure a little below atmspheric) at the port into the CCV. Blowby gases will move from the higher pressure area to the lower pressure; from CCV end to the inlet manifold.
FWIW, all the arrows point in the direction that gases in the CCV system move.

Regards
RDL
 

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Good question! I hope someone answers that with a good explanatory CCV autopsy!

Interesting.

Do we have a side-by-side picture of the 'old' and 'new' "dipstick guide tube" drain slots?

Here, for example, must be the old one from this DIY:
- DIY: change of the CCV / Pressure regulating valve / oil separator, 99 528i, by aioros

See my thread:
Post #67.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1376457

Here is your $200 dipstick (top p/n: 11437565437) versus the original $30 (bottom p/n: 11437531258) comparison. Now you wonder why oil gets sucked into the intake if your CCV is clogged (with the original dipstick guide tube), huh? What kind of retarded engineering is this?

I just did an overhaul job on my E46 that has an M54. OP, did you replace your starter and vacuum lines? I'd hate to do this job ever again. I went ahead and replaced everything under it--cooling pipes, hoses, and sensors.

Did you clean your intake manifold? It took me about a week or so to clean it. I know it was impossible to get it completely cleaned because of the design--the lobes that come down to form the throttle body opening probably still has a little but of oil grime in but I emptied over a dozen Berryman carb cleaner, a gallon of Purple Power and Simple Green, and about half a liter of Dawn dishwashing soap, and finally several gallons of water with a pressure washer for each of those items I used. Additionally, I also submerged it in baths of those items overnight.
 

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See my thread
Ooooh. Very nice. Lovely, in fact.

This picture, alone, explains a lot but coupled with RDL's plugged dipstick guide tube and Airos' direction of flow arrows, the whole story is better illuminated.

So that all benefit from each of our actions, I'll add that photo (annotated with reference provided to the original) to the previous discussion of the CCV (started as how to test, but morphing into everything but a DIY).
- How to test the BMW E39 pressure-controlled crankcase ventilation system (CCV)?

 

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The vacuum hose is a mystery to me ... I can't think of a set of circumstances when this would be desirable.
OK. I'll give up trying to figure it out (especially since I don't seem to have it on my M54 anyway).

I'm not sure what you mean by the direction of vacuum. ...all the arrows point in the direction that gases in the CCV system move
That's what I meant. The arrows I added (based on cn90's original arrows) were meant to show the 'flow' of vapors and liquid oil.

BTW, in your clogged dipstick guide tube, I can't 'see' the two concentric rings of metal but I 'assume' they're there.

If the OUTER ring only flows the oil dripping down from the CCV and the inner tube simply holds the diptstick in a puddle of oil, why would a LARGER diameter dipstick guide tube have 'any effect' on the gunk formation?

Put another way, the bottom (how many inches?) of the dipstick guide tube is always in a pan of oil, so, why would the larger diameter diptstick guide tube gunk up any less than the smaller concentric-ring diameter dipstick guide tube? (I guess this one is for the engineers in Bavaria.)
 

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BMW designed a new dipstick which means they agree that old one is a crap
How much does it cost and why is another story but old dipstick is not in my cars anymore

one problem less for CCV
LOL
Hey, Igor, since you changed your dipstick (the post you had on the other forum, and from where I stole your pic), BMW changed again the design of the dipstick it seems - now they have a different p/n than yours. The good thing is the price went down big time from the 200 bux you were quoted. Not sure what the latest change is though....
 

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now they have a different p/n than yours. The good thing is the price went down
I looked it up for my 2002 525i and I agree. The price is $40 and the part number is the newer one.

Does anyone know what this means in the new guide tube realoem description?

only in conjunction with cable holder
 

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Hey, Igor, since you changed your dipstick (the post you had on the other forum, and from where I stole your pic), BMW changed again the design of the dipstick it seems - now they have a different p/n than yours. The good thing is the price went down big time from the 200 bux you were quoted. Not sure what the latest change is though....
I looked it up for my 2002 525i and I agree. The price is $40 and the part number is the newer one.

Does anyone know what this means in the new guide tube realoem description?
Doesn't matter...
The item is ended.
Forget about it.
:)

Interesting...
I just checked www.GetBMWparts.com (Tischer BMW), and they list the dipstick tube for $68.42.

I might splurge and get it...
However, my mechanic is going to do the special drilling out to my original tube next week.
I will take pictures when he does it...

Thanks!
 

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Doesn't matter...The item is ended
I'm confused.

Realoem lists two different dipstick guide tube part numbers.
But, BOTH appear to be ENDED.

So, for the 2002 525i (M54 engine), which dipstick guide tube part number do we buy?

 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
... stuff deleted ...

BTW, in your clogged dipstick guide tube, I can't 'see' the two concentric rings of metal but I 'assume' they're there.

If the OUTER ring only flows the oil dripping down from the CCV and the inner tube simply holds the diptstick in a puddle of oil, why would a LARGER diameter dipstick guide tube have 'any effect' on the gunk formation?

Put another way, the bottom (how many inches?) of the dipstick guide tube is always in a pan of oil, so, why would the larger diameter diptstick guide tube gunk up any less than the smaller concentric-ring diameter dipstick guide tube? (I guess this one is for the engineers in Bavaria.)
My now retired original design tube guide does have the sleeve and tube arrangement. But they are in the section below the Y where the CCV branch joins the dipstick guide tube. One sees them looking up the guide tube from the sump end. My picture is looking top down into the branch that the CCV hose connects to, above the Y.

In the new design guide tube, the concentric sleeve/ring has been eliminated so the oil dripping from the CCV goes straight into the single large diameter tube & down into the sump. It is no longer routed into a narrow channel that can easily become plugged by cool, thick, sludgy oil.

The mystery to me is the thinking behind the original design which is more complicated and expensive to manufacture than necessary. In addition, I have a cynical chuckle every time I see that the new design has a higher selling price than the original which is more expensive to manfufacture.

The overall diameter is unchanged. The new guide tube has to fit in the same hole in the lower crankcase as the old guide tube did.

Regards
RDL
 

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My picture is looking top down into the branch that the CCV hose connects to, above the Y.
Ooops. That explanation makes all the difference!
(I had thought the 'gunk' was in the bottom of the dipstick guide tube, not the top of the Y.)

In the new design guide tube, the concentric sleeve/ring has been eliminated so the oil dripping from the CCV goes straight into the single large diameter tube & down into the sump. It is no longer routed into a narrow channel that can easily become plugged by cool, thick, sludgy oil. ... The overall diameter is unchanged.
Ah. I thought the redesigned dipstick guide tube had a larger bore (but used the same original o-ring). I have just now corrected that in the CCV summary thread, and used your quote above in doing so (see post #2 of that thread).

The new guide tube has to fit in the same hole in the lower crankcase as the old guide tube did.
I'm curious if one can easily just 'remove' the inner sleeve from the old dipstick guide tube as a retrofit?
I'm also curious how high the normal oil level rises to.
Does it rise to the Y connection to the CCV which was all gunked up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
... stuff deleted ...

I'm curious if one can easily just 'remove' the inner sleeve from the old dipstick guide tube as a retrofit?
I'm also curious how high the normal oil level rises to.
Does it rise to the Y connection to the CCV which was all gunked up?
I've read posts where people had drilled out the centre to imitate the newer design. It seems to me it would be a pretty ugly job. Especially considering the newest part#/price is down to ~$65. And to think that I thought I got a deal a couple of months ago at $125 versus the $220 last year. :(

Oil level with the engine cold is about 2 inches below the hole in the lower crankcase that the guide tube fits, so ~ 6+ inches below the Y. When running it would be a little lower yet since some oil will be up in the valve train and some in the process of dripping back to the sump. Compare the difference on the dipstick for a cold engine versus immediately after stopping the engine.

The sludge in my example was all from the CCV.

Regards
RDL
 

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I've read posts where people had drilled out the centre to imitate the newer design. It seems to me it would be a pretty ugly job. Especially considering the newest part#/price is down to ~$65.
I understand now. Thanks RDL for sticking with me!

Two days ago, I knew nothing of the CCV and now I think I'm 'finally' getting an idea of what it is, what it does, and why it fails and how to rectify that (e.g., 'the kit' spoken about in your post over here).

Oil level with the engine cold ... ~ 6+ inches below the Y ... The sludge in my example was all from the CCV.
Ah! So the CCV 'gunk' is all 'above' the resting oil level!
 

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I'm curious if one can easily just 'remove' the inner sleeve from the old dipstick guide tube as a retrofit?
I'm also curious how high the normal oil level rises to.
Does it rise to the Y connection to the CCV which was all gunked up?
no , you can't just 'remove' inner sleeve

my mechanic tried but just cracked dipstick

the new one is the way to go
 

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Oil level with the engine cold is about 2 inches below the hole in the lower crankcase that the guide tube fits, so ~ 6+ inches below the Y
How do these annotations look so far for the resting oil level and for the o-ring (I can't tell from the realoem diagram WHERE the o-ring is as the diagram shows it at the very bottom):

 

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First: The heavy power lead running from the alternator to the starter had worn a hole in the CCV drain hose
...
Second:The drain hose and drain in the dipstick guidetube were plugged solid.
...
From my experience, it would have been possible to remove this drain hose and dipstick guide tube for cleaning &/or replacement without replacing the entire CCV system.
...
I had terrible idle quality, 10 lean & mis-fire codes & the CEL lit. Crankcase vacuum was 100 mbar vs the spec of 10 to 15.
...
I also had a new intermittent burnt oil smell in the engine bay
...
with a wisp of smoke off the rear bank exhaust manifold,
...
but no obvious smoke out the tailpipe,
Wow. I should have heeded advice in this thread long ago.

After a long saga over a period of many months, I too found almost EXACTLY the same problems that RDL had!

1. My lower CCV drain hose was split open (cause unknown)
2. My dipstick guide tube was clogged solid (warm climate!)
3. I replaced the former & cleaned the latter w/o removing the CCV (M54 engine)
4. I had _many_ non-specific lean misfire codes & terrible idle & CEL lit for months
5. Burnt oil smell when idling hot pointing uphill
6. Intermittent wisps of smoke on driver side front of engine
7. Tailpipe had no smoke (exactly as RDL described)

Unfortunately, I did not test my vacuum readings ... but I did build a home made smoke machine which helped find the lower CCV drain rubber hose crack and then the upper ICV rubber elbow cracks.

I found the totally clogged steel CCV drain dipstick guide tube only after visual inspection ... and I came here searching for a way to specifically test for the clog w/o removing the drain tube itself.

In hindsight, two tools would have been helpful in cutting my diagnostic time down from many months to just a few days:
a) A better smoke machine
b) Vacuum tests
 

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I'll have you guys the trouble... Holy thread revival! :D

Ah. I thought the redesigned dipstick guide tube had a larger bore (but used the same original o-ring). I have just now corrected that in the CCV summary thread, and used your quote above in doing so (see post #2 of that thread).
The more I read the more confused I get! I plan to do some PM this summer... 190k mi and still on original CCV system! No problems or codes yet, but I feel like I am on borrowed time (this is one of the few PM items not done yet by myself or previous owner. Another is the DISA valve, so, after reading, I'm a little scared to drive the thing even though it runs great. That needs to be my first stop! Only drive it about once a week until I get some stuff done... I have a couple other cars...).

Anyway, I found I lacked clarity on the following (probably my fault, but you guys seem nice, so here goes...)

1) Is the o-ring for the newest dipstick tube the same as the old one(s)?
2) Is the o-ring included with the purchase of a new dipstick, or will I need to purchase separately? Anyone have the part number for the o-ring handy (I assume it is the same on my e46...325xi)?

edit: Bluebee, I found this info: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671599

and... https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/dipstick-o-ring/11431740045/
I assume that is one of the o-rings I need... Now just to finish the list for the entire CCV job... pointers welcome!

edit 2: Assuming the E46 M54 takes the same, this thread and page is a big help in making sure I get all my parts... http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5866405#post5866405

edit 3: Just in case another e46 fool, like me, runs into this, here is a DIY that links to 2 more threads with parts, tools, etc...
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417819

The mystery to me is the thinking behind the original design which is more complicated and expensive to manufacture than necessary.

Regards
RDL
Because BMW!

Thanks RDL for a very useful thread!
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
...
The more I read the more confused I get! I plan to do some PM this summer... 190k mi and still on original CCV system! No problems or codes yet, but I feel like I am on borrowed time (this is one of the few PM items not done yet by myself or previous owner. Another is the DISA valve, so, after reading, I'm a little scared to drive the thing even though it runs great.
...
Holy dead thread revival indeed!

FWIW, I have not & would not preemptively replace the CCV or DISA in the name of preventive maintenance. So if you don't have any symptoms I don't see any reason to fear driving your car.

So far as I'm aware, the DISA fails slowly - the pivot actuator wears and loosens over the course of thousands of miles. It doesn't fail catastrophically all of a sudden.

The CCV could be more problematic. If it plugs up and freezes in cold weather, the consequences could be pretty severe. But you would have idling and drivability symptoms warning of the problem. And sludging up is much less likely so long as you avoid regular short (10 minute) trip in winter temperatures. OTOH, the other failure modes of broken hoses or a split diaphragm would make a mess, burn oil & perhaps set a DTC but not damage the engine.

I do though regularly check both to ensure they aren't going bad. I replaced the standard CCV with the cold weather version and repaired my DISA with the GAS kit when I found them failed.
- It's a 15 minute job to remove the DISA from the manifold and check that the flap is tight on the actuation lever/pivot.
- I check that the CCV is regulating crankcase vacuum properly and that the hose off the valve cover isn't filling up with sludge. That's about 30 minutes all in.

But that's just me - I hate to replace parts that aren't showing signs of wear or foreseeable failure.

Anyway, to each his/her own. I'm certainly not advising you not to preemptive replace.
 

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I was just reading a post about a "catastrophic failure" during cold weather driving... Have had so much stuff open I can't recall who it was, but it was on this forum. I am not at a really high elevation in the southern Appalachians, so it is not too cold here, and not cold for all that long. I don't take many short trips at all. (lightbulb moment, this was it... obviously you have seen it already, but for reference: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5990544&postcount=10)

Here are the only "problems" I have noticed (feedback on either is welcome and appreciated!):
-rough idle during initial cold engine startup (regardless of outside temp), but smooth when warm.
-typically get a single hard "miss" after fueling up, but I think that is the evap purge valve asking to be replaced.

I will check the DISA soon, I thought I read somewhere that it was best to replace some parts if you pulled it, but I am sure I have the links saved and can re-consult that. I planned to do the basic diagnostics on the CCV, and if I go all out and replace a few big ticket items I will plan to keep the car for quite a few more years (had been thinking about selling and getting something a bit newer), so I'd like to keep it reasonably reliable.

Thanks RDL!!!
 
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