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Discussion Starter #1
This is an interesting topic.

"(Those) pushing globalization ..... may have told the public that the purpose of NAFTA and of China’s admission to the World Trade Organization (WTO) was to open the closed markets of Mexico and China to ‘American products made on American soil, everything from corn to chemicals to computers.’ But U.S. multinationals and their lobbyists 20 years ago knew that was not true. Their goal from the beginning was to transfer the production of many products from American soil to Mexican soil or Chinese soil, to take advantage of foreign low-wage, nonunion labor, and in some cases foreign government subsidies and other favors.”

"The United States has not been the naive victim of cunning Chinese masterminds. On the contrary, in the last generation many members of America’s elite have sought to get rich personally by selling or renting out America’s crown jewels—intellectual property, manufacturing capacity, high-end real estate, even university resources—to the elite of another country. When asked whether the rapid dismantling, in a few decades, of much of an industrial base built up painstakingly over two centuries has been bad for the United States, the typical reply by members of the U.S. establishment is an incoherent word salad of messianic liberal ideology and neoclassical economics. We are fighting global poverty by employing Chinese factory workers for a pittance! Don’t you understand Ricardo’s theory of comparative advantage?”

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/china-strategy-trade-lind

"The idea that a global liberal order could, like an iPhone, be designed in America and made in China was the product, where it was sincerely held, of pure ideological delusion. In its entire 5,000 year history, China has not spent one single day as a liberal democracy. The belief that a repressive autocratic regime would suddenly transform into a liberal democracy by being handed more wealth and power was patently absurd. Yet it is the people who held and promoted this claim for decades who intend to lead the world into a great power confrontation — against the China for whose rise they are directly responsible."

https://unherd.com/2020/06/covid-has-exposed-america-as-a-failed-state/
 

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Globalization has been going on since the start of the industrial revolution. Manufacturing naturally migrates to areas (or countries, or continents) with lower labor costs. That migration and expansion of industrialization creates new consumers of manufactured products.

The way for a country to avoid being harmed by globalization is to have a vibrant industrial economy and a skilled workforce. Germany's a good example. BMW's largest final assembly plant is in the Third World country of South Carolina, where labor costs are much lower than in Germany. Their plant in Mexico will eventually surpass Spartanburg in vehicle production. Most of those BMW's produced in Spartanburg and Mexico will be sold in the Americas. All those more affordable BMW's sold in the Americas end up creating jobs in Germany, albeit jobs requiring more skills.

The U.S.'s problem is that we have a glut of unskilled workers, more than the number of unskilled jobs created by our economy. So, that natural migration of manufacturing jobs to low-cost labor markets hurts the U.S. much more than it hurts Germany.
 

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This COVID shutdown does hurt unskilled workers, e.g. service industry, a lot more than skilled workers, e.g. tech stuff.

So the trillions spent on PPP and small business loans probably should be spent to massively and quickly retrain unskilled workers to other skilled job categories?
 

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Globalization has been going on since the start of the industrial revolution. Manufacturing naturally migrates to areas (or countries, or continents) with lower labor costs. That migration and expansion of industrialization creates new consumers of manufactured products.

The way for a country to avoid being harmed by globalization is to have a vibrant industrial economy and a skilled workforce. Germany's a good example. BMW's largest final assembly plant is in the Third World country of South Carolina, where labor costs are much lower than in Germany. Their plant in Mexico will eventually surpass Spartanburg in vehicle production. Most of those BMW's produced in Spartanburg and Mexico will be sold in the Americas. All those more affordable BMW's sold in the Americas end up creating jobs in Germany, albeit jobs requiring more skills.

The U.S.'s problem is that we have a glut of unskilled workers, more than the number of unskilled jobs created by our economy. So, that natural migration of manufacturing jobs to low-cost labor markets hurts the U.S. much more than it hurts Germany.
Don't leave out OSHA and EPA's influences. Overregulate and manufacturers are forced to go where they can make the profit stockholders demand.
 

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Being in the midst of NorCal employment hubs, globalization is a daily affair.

E.g. teleconference with remote teams around the clock, transferring knowledge, handing off IPs, waving off yet another cohort of wide-eyed trainees(domestic or otherwise).

There is a constant, non-stop, churn of skill sets and learning and disruption and retooling and cancelled projects and layoffs and re-pivoting in the whole region.

Many battle-hardened colleagues strongly encourage their kids not to get into tech, nonetheless many local kids still do under free wills, so maybe US still has hope. :D
 

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This COVID shutdown does hurt unskilled workers, e.g. service industry, a lot more than skilled workers, e.g. tech stuff.

So the trillions spent on PPP and small business loans probably should be spent to massively and quickly retrain unskilled workers to other skilled job categories?
Education is readily available. I saw somebody growing up in public housing become a physician, and it didn't cost him a penny in tuition.

Force feeding education to people is a waste of time and money. I have a highly functional friend who done fine with just high school. She hates any kind of school. She managed through life by always having three part time jobs: school bus driver or teacher's assistant during the school year, lifeguard during the summers, and aerobics instructor in the evenings. The state upped the requirements to get an aerobics instructor of lifeguard (I forget which) license, and taking the necessary class for that almost killed her.

Here next door neighbor operated an electric screwdriver at the local Ford final assembly plant until it shut down. In addition to a generous severance package, they also got free tuition for four years. He spent his free time in that four years playing video games.

When you let out manufacturing jobs go overseas, we should have let some of them go to Mexico, Central America, and South America instead. We should have held on to as many of those jobs as possible by reducing or eliminating corporate income taxes for manufacturing.

Unions' wage demands killed a lot of U.S. manufacturing. That's why many of the UAW jobs lost have been replaced by foreign manufacturers building plants in the low-labor-cost South (South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi). The UAW had to accept about a 50% pay cut for new hires back during the meltdown of 2008. They're trying to get that back, but it ain't gonna happen.

VW has a factory in Chattanooga, TN, right on the TN/GA border. The UAW recently tried to organize it. But, the workers figured out that if they unionized and demanded UAW wages, the Chattanooga VW factory would go the way of the Scranton, PA VW factory.... gone.

Bubba Haven, town next to Bubbaville, has a big air conditioner factory. The starting pay for an assembly worker is somewhere around $13/hour. When they're hiring, there's a line of applicants stretching around the building.

Low wages for unskilled workers is the biggest motivator for acquiring more job skills. I was an electrical engineer for the Navy. I was at risk of getting laid off back in the 1990's. Under the civil service rules at the time, I'd get any federal job that was open but I would still get my engineer's pay. A co-worker got laid off and ended up driving a forklift for a few years at engineer's pay. He said it was fun and totally stress-free. Our jobs were transferred from Virginia to Floriduh. I went where my job did. But, my co-worker was close enough to retirement that he took the local Navy forklift job instead of moving.

I had my 90-day appointment with my nurse-practitioner yesterday. She used to be my waitress at a diner I used to hit for lunch when I was working. I always tipped well, but it wasn't enough. So, she made the sacrifices necessary to get an education and make a better life for herself and her family.
 

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Being in the midst of NorCal employment hubs, globalization is a daily affair.

E.g. teleconference with remote teams around the clock, transferring knowledge, handing off IPs, waving off yet another cohort of wide-eyed trainees(domestic or otherwise).

There is a constant, non-stop, churn of skill sets and learning and disruption and retooling and cancelled projects and layoffs and re-pivoting in the whole region.

Many battle-hardened colleagues strongly encourage their kids not to get into tech, nonetheless many local kids still do under free wills, so maybe US still has hope. :D
Our next house will have a lift in the garage. I'm gong with one made by ACL, a California-based company. They sell Chinese-made lifts, but also make them here. I asked the sales rep' how could they afford to make lifts in California. She laughed and said "We can't. Our US factory is in Texas."
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I had my 90-day appointment with my nurse-practitioner yesterday. She used to be my waitress at a diner I used to hit for lunch when I was working. I always tipped well, but it wasn't enough. So, she made the sacrifices necessary to get an education and make a better life for herself and her family.
Continued education is important. And opportunities in the land of the free are bountiful up until now.

There are lots of sophisticated and well crafted pieces that sell a point, from all sides.

Personally it makes sense to see through the fluff and hype and noise, and conserve energy and resources to focus on what really matters. :)
 

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Low wages for unskilled workers is the biggest motivator for acquiring more job skills. I was an electrical engineer for the Navy. I was at risk of getting laid off back in the 1990's. Under the civil service rules at the time, I'd get any federal job that was open but I would still get my engineer's pay. A co-worker got laid off and ended up driving a forklift for a few years at engineer's pay. He said it was fun and totally stress-free. Our jobs were transferred from Virginia to Floriduh. I went where my job did. But, my co-worker was close enough to retirement that he took the local Navy forklift job instead of moving.
EEs are disciplined and structured. CS folks are free-willing and temperamental. In contrast MBAs talk well. Those are the types of colleagues in the local workplaces. :)
 

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EEs are disciplined and structured. CS folks are free-willing and temperamental. In contrast MBAs talk well. Those are the types of colleagues in the local workplaces. :)
So.... as Civil Servants, what are, in your view, Air Traffic Controllers? Keep in mind that at the highest there were 18K of us and the average is around 12K at any one time.
 

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There is no ATC in my circle of contacts, my guess is that the profession needs discipline and structure just like EEs.
Nope, we have nothing but structure. Then again, there are provisions to "violate" just about every rule we have. Our "outs" make the rule book (7110.65) look like Swiss cheese! One thing that always gives me a chuckle is the shrinks did a psychological study of controllers and one of our traits was a criminal mind! :rofl:

As for the discipline part if you mean accountability we are very accountable. All transmissions (and radar tracks) are recorded. We also must be extremely creative (plan A usually doesn't work so one's option list must be deep) and think independently. Good controllers are also definitely Type A personalities. Creativity is also a critical trait. One thing that caught me a little off-guard is I used to believe that playing video games would help with the newbies. I was WRONG! They were the least creative of all my trainees. They couldn't think themselves out of a wet paper bag; same with pilots. They rely too heavily on the automation and not their brains. One guy climbed one a/c into another and when asked why he said TCAS (the automated collision avoidance system in the aircraft) would fix it!

I'm pretty sure the engineering field also needs creativity and out-of-the-box thinking. If not, wonderful things like the SR-71 wouldn't exist. I'm sure there are many fields where "structure" and "discipline" stifle creativity. I guess it depends on how one defines structure and discipline.
 

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I worked for a retired USAF E-8. She was an air traffic controller, but also had a MS in computer science. She wrote air traffic control software. One of the projects she worked on was a system that warned of impending mid-air collisions. For years, they'd send her an e-mail when the system prevented a collision.

She told a ATC story of an aircraft requesting clearance to "flight level 800." She asked how he was expecting to do that. The SR-71 pilot came back.. "... throttle back and glide."
 

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I worked for a retired USAF E-8. She was an air traffic controller, but also had a MS in computer science. She wrote air traffic control software. One of the projects she worked on was a system that warned of impending mid-air collisions. For years, they'd send her an e-mail when the system prevented a collision.

She told a ATC story of an aircraft requesting clearance to "flight level 800." She asked how he was expecting to do that. The SR-71 pilot came back.. "... throttle back and glide."
We laughed at the Conflict Alert!! Most of the time it alerted AFTER the planes passed. When it did alert, it was too late to do anything.

I like the one from LA Center about a Cessna asking about ground speed...
 

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I'm pretty sure the engineering field also needs creativity and out-of-the-box thinking. If not, wonderful things like the SR-71 wouldn't exist. I'm sure there are many fields where "structure" and "discipline" stifle creativity. I guess it depends on how one defines structure and discipline.
The engineering project to create SR-71 probably was as disciplined and structured as it got at the time.:)

In my mind disciplined refers to methodical, and structured implies a rigorous, data-driven, scientific process.
 

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I like the one from LA Center about a Cessna asking about ground speed...
Lol
***8216;
What a great story, eh? Always a bigger/faster fish in the pond!
 

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If you have heard it before...

v There were a lot of things we couldn't do in an SR-71, but we were the fastest guys on the block and loved reminding our fellow aviators of this fact. People often asked us if, because of this fact, it was fun to fly the jet. Fun would not be the first word I would use to describe flying this plane***8212;intense, maybe, even cerebral. But there was one day in our Sled experience when we would have to say that it was pure fun to be the fastest guys out there, at least for a moment.

It occurred when Walt and I were flying our final training sortie. We needed 100 hours in the jet to complete our training and attain Mission Ready status. Somewhere over Colorado we had passed the century mark. We had made the turn in Arizona and the jet was performing flawlessly. My gauges were wired in the front seat and we were starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, not only because we would soon be flying real missions but because we had gained a great deal of confidence in the plane in the past ten months. Ripping across the barren deserts 80,000 feet below us, I could already see the coast of California from the Arizona border. I was, finally, after many humbling months of simulators and study, ahead of the jet.

I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for Walter in the back seat. There he was, with no really good view of the incredible sights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital. It had been difficult, too, for me to relinquish control of the radios, as during my entire flying career I had controlled my own transmissions. But it was part of the division of duties in this plane and I had adjusted to it. I still insisted on talking on the radio while we were on the ground, however. Walt was so good at many things, buthe couldn't match my expertise at sounding smooth on the radios, a skill that had been honed sharply with years in fighter squadrons where the slightest radio miscue was grounds for beheading. He understood that and allowed me that luxury. Just to get a sense of what Walt had to contend with, I pulled the radio toggle switches and monitored the frequencies along with him. The predominant radio chatter was from Los Angeles Center, far below us, controlling daily traffic in their sector. While they had us on their scope (albeit briefly), we were in uncontrolled airspace and normally would not talk to them unless we needed to descend into their airspace.

We listened as the shaky voice of a lone Cessna pilot who asked Center for a read-out of his ground speed. Center replied: "November Charlie 175, I'm showing you at ninety knots on the ground." Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spokein the exact same, calm, deep, professional tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the "Houston Center voice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.

Just moments after the Cessna's inquiry, a Twin Beech piped up on frequency, in a rather superior tone, asking for his ground speed in Beech. "I have you at one hundred and twenty-five knots of ground speed." Boy, I thought, the Beechcraft really must think he is dazzling his Cessna brethren.

Then out of the blue, a navy F-18 pilot out of NAS Lemoore came up on frequency. You knew right away it was a Navy jock because he sounded very cool on the radios. "Center, Dusty 52 ground speed check." Before Center could reply, I'm thinking to myself, hey, Dusty 52 has a ground speed indicator in that million-dollar cockpit, so why is he asking Center for a read-out? Then I got it, ol' Dusty here is making sure that every bug smasher from Mount Whitney to the Mojave knows what true speed is. He's the fastest dude in the valley today, and he just wants everyone to know how much fun he is having in his new Hornet. And the reply, always with that same, calm, voice, with more distinct alliteration than emotion: "Dusty 52, Center, we have you at 620 on the ground." And I thought to myself, is this a ripe situation, or what? As my hand instinctively reached for the mic button, I had to remind myself that Walt was in control of theradios. Still, I thought, it must be done***8212;in mere seconds we'll be out of the sector and the opportunity will be lost. That Hornet must die, and die now. I thought about all of our Sim training and how important it was that we developed well as a crew and knew that to jump in on the radios now would destroy the integrity of all that we had worked toward becoming. I was torn.

Somewhere, 13 miles above Arizona, there was a pilot screaming inside his space helmet. Then, I heard it***8212;the click of the mic button from the back seat. That was the very moment that I knew Walter and I had become a crew. Very professionally, and with no emotion, Walter spoke: "Los Angeles Center, Aspen 20, can you give us a ground speed check?" There was no hesitation, and the replay came as if was an everyday request.

"Aspen 20, I show you at one thousand eight hundred and forty-two knots, across the ground." I think it was the forty-two knots that I liked the best, so accurate and proud was Center to deliver that information without hesitation, and you just knew he was smiling. But the precise point at which I knew that Walt and I were going to be really good friends for a long time was when he keyed the mic once again to say, in his most fighter-pilot-like voice: "Ah, Center, much thanks, we're showing closer to nineteen hundred on the money."

For a moment Walter was a god. And we finally heard a little crack in the armor of the Houston Center voice, when L.A. came back with, "Roger that Aspen. Your equipmentis probably more accurate than ours. You boys have a good one." It all had lasted for just moments, but in that short, memorable sprint across the southwest, the Navy had been flamed, all mortal airplanes on freq were forced to bow before the King of Speed, and more importantly, Walter and I had crossed the threshold of being a crew. A fine day's work. We never heard another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast. For just one day, it truly was fun being the fastest guys out there.
 

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Good story, ARD, thanks.

After PATCO a number of us kept a FAA ATC SF-172 on our cubicle wall.
 

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ezair bought it up. I just posted it... ;)
 
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