Bimmerfest BMW banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Seems like customer advisors are leaving BMW in droves lately. Several long time CAs tell me that the reality is 5 models sell and the 15 or so other models are dead wood. That and the fact that the maintenance plans have been scaled back along with lower residuals has a lot of the sales force leaving in the tristate area. Is this what others are seeing in the rest of the country? Reps here say BMW sales are dreadful.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,120 Posts
US sales in 2018 grew just 1.7%. Down 4.3% for cars, up 13.6% for trucks. With the withdrawal from sales generating programs like Fleet and Pull ahead, and rising rates with lower residuals, the value proposition has changed. We CAs are having a harder time making money with the race to the bottom and less award programs from BMW. It's like the market ... Either sell and get out, or hold and look for an upside in the near future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Seems like customer advisors are leaving BMW in droves lately. Several long time CAs tell me that the reality is 5 models sell and the 15 or so other models are dead wood. That and the fact that the maintenance plans have been scaled back along with lower residuals has a lot of the sales force leaving in the tristate area. Is this what others are seeing in the rest of the country? Reps here say BMW sales are dreadful.
I wonder what the 5 are that sell well?
X5
X3
530
330
??
 

·
Registered
2018 X5M
Joined
·
1,714 Posts
I wonder what the 5 are that sell well?
X5
X3
530
330
??
X1?

I have been told (posted this info in another recent thread) that the M models expect for the M2 are not moving at a large metro southeast center.

The flip side is maybe the Tri-state area had too many CA's to begin with?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,120 Posts
I wonder what the 5 are that sell well?
X5
X3
530
330
??
X3 (61,351)

X5 (45,013)

3-Series (44,578)

5-series (43,937)

4-series (31,379)

X1 (29,060)

If you combine 3 and 4 it's the top at 75,957.

These top 6 account for 81% of all units.

All SAVs total 162,763 or 52.3% of total units.


~MJB~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,676 Posts
There was a really good father-and-son VW-Honda in the next town over from me. Sales people, and service and parts people, and administrative people who worked there stayed there. We bought our last Honda from their top salesman. But, the family sold the business to a big multi-state dealership chain, and they were nasty. Their first trick was that all the salesmen had to wear knit shirts (think TV Star Trek uniforms). Most 55 year old men, e.g. their top salesman, don't look good in knit shirts.

Their next trick was to hire more salesmen than could be supported by the volume of the dealership. They were, and 12 years later, are still standing shoulder-to-shoulder in the showroom looking out the window waiting to chase down a potential customer when they drive onto the lot. Once, I was picking up Frau Putzer after she dropped of her Honda for service. I was driving my BMW. I pulled into the entrance nearer the showroom because it has less of an incline than the entrance near the service department. As I was making my way across the parking lot to the service department, a crippled salesman was hobbling along as fast as he could behind my car, trying to catch me if/when I parked before another salesman did. I actually almost felt sorry for the guy.

Their top salesman who sold us our last Honda lasted about two months under the new owners. The service writers were a totally different group every time we took the car in. In addition to being nasty to employees, they were also nasty to customers. That's why Frau Putzer now has an X3 instead of a CR-V. Our last Honda both was and will be our... last Honda.

The car salesman as we know it are probably going the way of the travel agent, stock broker, and to some extent the real estate agent. The whole way cars are bought and sold in the U.S. is inefficient. But, things evolved that way for good reasons. Evolution is what created car salesman, and travel agents, and stock brokers, and real estate agents, and it will be what destroys them, too.

I run into the father from time to time at a restaurant, and I end up listening to his car-dealer stories to the annoyance of both of our wives if they're along. The reason the son walked away from keeping the dealership after his father retired was that they were literally busting out of their old facilities. Owning a Honda dealership is a gold mine. VW.. maybe not so much these days. But, both VW and Honda were demanding they build a new facility. His son said that keeping the dealership with a $10M mortgage for a new facility hanging over his head made the whole thing not worth doing.

BMW's sales has been growing for years, thanks in large part to their subsidized lease deals. They were building up volume, and sacrificing profits to do it. Apparently, BMW's sales volume is now where they want it to be. So, the BMW leasing party is over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,941 Posts
Their top salesman who sold us our last Honda lasted about two months under the new owners. The service writers were a totally different group every time we took the car in. In addition to being nasty to employees, they were also nasty to customers. That's why Frau Putzer now has an X3 instead of a CR-V. Our last Honda both was and will be our... last Honda.
Hubby traded his GT for a 2018 CR-V, I have never heard any thing good about Honda Dealers, and now I know why, the sales man was nice, polite and was hungry for the sale (we got it under invoice) but when it was time to deal with the sales manager, he was a slimball, you know the type, trying to be your best friend, and he put down BMW (not knowing I had one) after the 3rd insult on BMWs , I told him if he wants to make the sale, then shut the F up don't do the dog and pony show and gets us out of the dealer. I will never purchase another Honda because of him, I told that to GM and sales Managers. I personally would have killed the deal if I could but since hubby was purchasing it I just left his office.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,676 Posts
Hubby traded his GT for a 2018 CR-V, I have never heard any thing good about Honda Dealers, and now I know why, the sales man was nice, polite and was hungry for the sale (we got it under invoice) but when it was time to deal with the sales manager, he was a slimball, you know the type, trying to be your best friend, and he put down BMW (not knowing I had one) after the 3rd insult on BMWs , I told him if he wants to make the sale, then shut the F up don't do the dog and pony show and gets us out of the dealer. I will never purchase another Honda because of him, I told that to GM and sales Managers. I personally would have killed the deal if I could but since hubby was purchasing it I just left his office.
Where I live dealerships of the same brand are at least 50 miles apart. So, there's relatively little pricing competition. The "fair price" for a new Honda were I live is very close to MSRP.

Sales managers are typically alpha males. Aggression is how they became sales manager in the first place. If you end up in the same room with them, plan on a fight. Also, different sales tactics work better on different demographics. The people who buy peasant cars are usually peasants, and they're considered to be stupid and weak. So, the sales staff will, by default, try to lie to them and push them around.

The older I get and the smarter I get, the more militant I become that anybody who pisses me off with lying or aggression will never get one penny of my money, and their aggression will be countered with my hyper-aggression. Frau Putzer's X3 was Plan C, after my encounters with the Honda sales manager and the Hyundai sales manager.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,941 Posts
Where I live dealerships of the same brand are at least 50 miles apart. So, there's relatively little pricing competition. The "fair price" for a new Honda were I live is very close to MSRP.

Sales managers are typically alpha males. Aggression is how they became sales manager in the first place. If you end up in the same room with them, plan on a fight. Also, different sales tactics work better on different demographics. The people who buy peasant cars are usually peasants, and they're considered to be stupid and weak. So, the sales staff will, by default, try to lie to them and push them around.

The older I get and the smarter I get, the more militant I become that anybody who pisses me off with lying or aggression will never get one penny of my money, and their aggression will be countered with my hyper-aggression. Frau Putzer's X3 was Plan C, after my encounters with the Honda sales manager and the Hyundai sales manager.
Yeah, my parting words were basically this, there are many reasons why people go with BMW, we don't have to deal with assh-les like you.

For the life of me I don't get why dealership work like that, it's an insult to ones intelligence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,676 Posts
Yeah, my parting words were basically this, there are many reasons why people go with BMW, we don't have to deal with assh-les like you.

For the life of me I don't get why dealership work like that, it's an insult to ones intelligence.
You were shopping for a peasant car, so you were treated like a peasant, a weak, stupid peasant. Things get like they are for a reason. The reason peasant car customers are treated with aggression and lied to is that it usually works.
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
22,805 Posts
So how are MB buyers treated?

:)
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
22,805 Posts
So how are MB buyers treated?

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
There's definitely a difference. My wife recently traded her X1 for a new CR-V and now that it's been back to the service department several times we both agreed not at all the same experience.

Incidentally the new 1.5L turbocharged engines in this all new 5th generation CR-V are lighting up the message boards with fuel dilution in the crankcase oil and the cabin heaters that don't work in colder climate regions. Honda apparently does not have an answer yet and the issue is now two years old. So far Honda is offering free oil changes when you discover your oil level has climbed half way up the dipstick. This does not work well because most Honda new car owners never thought about checking their own oil until they hear the engine making a different sound. Lots of angry disgruntled CR-V owners starting to take the hit and getting rid of them out there. We are keeping a close eye on ours.
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
22,805 Posts
There's definitely a difference. My wife recently traded her X1 for a new CR-V and now that it's been back to the service department several times we both agreed not at all the same experience.

Incidentally the new 1.5L turbocharged engines in this all new 5th generation CR-V are lighting up the message boards with fuel dilution in the crankcase oil and the cabin heaters that don't work in colder climate regions. Honda apparently does not have an answer yet and the issue is now two years old. So far Honda is offering free oil changes when you discover your oil level has climbed half way up the dipstick. This does not work well because most Honda new car owners never thought about checking their own oil until they hear the engine making a different sound. Lots of angry disgruntled CR-V owners starting to take the hit and getting rid of them out there. We are keeping a close eye on ours.
I'd dump an extra quart in the engine, (maybe over the next few weeks, a bit at a time). then take it in to Honda and say "oil level is rising, maybe that fuel issue?"

It will create a date/mileage 'anchor' in your service record should you have a downstream issue.

BMW has slow rolled V8 owners to the point that their 'settlements' now use the present day mileages for determining the % of owner share. By having a sub-10k 'record', you may be protecting yourself.


Yeah, this is a bit tongue in cheek, not sure I'd do it....but just a thought. (Will AH run a UOA oil test? :angel:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
I'd dump an extra quart in the engine, (maybe over the next few weeks, a bit at a time). then take it in to Honda and say "oil level is rising, maybe that fuel issue?"

It will create a date/mileage 'anchor' in your service record should you have a downstream issue.

BMW has slow rolled V8 owners to the point that their 'settlements' now use the present day mileages for determining the % of owner share. By having a sub-10k 'record', you may be protecting yourself.


Yeah, this is a bit tongue in cheek, not sure I'd do it....but just a thought. (Will AH run a UOA oil test? :angel:)
Good point Ard. AH has a very serious problem on their hands with these new direct injected turbocharged downsized engines right now. Their initial response was "this is the first we've heard anything like this" then they stopped answering the phone. China took control of the issue over there by being the first to step in and order all sales come to a halt until a solution is found. Honda offered up some ECU remapping but China was not impressed and responded with no cigar. This is a really huge deal in the autosphere at the moment and growing bigger every day. AH rolled out their so-called "fix" which they're hoping will buy them some time but it's just window dressing. The actual root problem is low speed pre-ignition or LSPI and the entire industry along with the oil companies are trying to find a solution right now. Engineers running test mules in dyno cells have broken a lot of internal hardware looking for something that will work. Honda decided to address the problem by injecting extra fuel into the combustion chamber to cool the compressed charge to ward off auto-ignition before spark-ignition occurs. The unfortunate side effect of that strategy is CR-V owners are getting gas fumes in the cabin while their oil pans are filling up with the extra gasoline. There is no solution for this at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,676 Posts
So how are MB buyers treated?

:)
High-end car brand salesmen earn more than ones selling peasant cars. They got the job at the M-B, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar-Land Rover, Lexus dealership because they're smarter than the salesmen working the Kia dealership down the street.

A smart salesman car read his potential customers and then adjust his behavior to be most effective on that particular potential customer. If an idiot wanders it to a high-end dealership, the salesman will be just as happy to screw them as a Kia salesman would. Example:

A friend if mine bought an E46, ordering it near the end of E46 coupe' production. I recommended a BMW salesman (a salesmanette, actually), and told him to demand a good deal since the car will be obsolete when the E90's come out. But, he never takes my advice on anything, and got grabbed by the first swinging *** he came across in the showroom. That guy told him that he "had to pay full MSRP because the car's being factory ordered, and because of the currency exchange rates at the time. My idiot friend said 'Uhhh, o.k." and signed on the dotted line. :rofl:

Back in 2000, I was visiting Virginia Beach on vacation. I grew up there and my mother still lived there. On the way to the beach and go-kart, wearing shorts, T-shirt, and sneakers, I stopped by the BMW dealership just to kick tires and sniff leather. I live 40 miles from a BMW dealership, and I hadn't seen a BMW up close in years, since I moved down here to Floriduh. While I was looking at the cars in the showroom, three BMW salesmen sat in their cubicles, thinking I was just a peasant looky-loo, because of my clothes, and lack of a watch. A fourth one came in from the lot and asked if he could help me. I first said no, I was just there on vacation, no BMW dealer where I live, and I was just looking. He invited me to take all the time I wanted and said he'd be happy to answer any questions I had. But, then I asked him when the E46 M3 was coming. I ended up being just about at the front of what became a two-year long waiting list.

I'd have given $100 to be in the coffee room when my salesman told the other three that stayed in their cubicles that "the peasant driving a Nissan Sentra" just put a deposit down on an M3. My salesman was the dealership's top salesman, and him getting the M3 sale and the other three not getting it was a good example of why. My salesman was better at reading customers than the three other ones sitting in their cubicles.
 

·
East Coast Commuter
Joined
·
4,610 Posts
US sales in 2018 grew just 1.7%. Down 4.3% for cars, up 13.6% for trucks. With the withdrawal from sales generating programs like Fleet and Pull ahead, and rising rates with lower residuals, the value proposition has changed. We CAs are having a harder time making money with the race to the bottom and less award programs from BMW. It's like the market ... Either sell and get out, or hold and look for an upside in the near future.


Sad to hear this Mike. Nothing good about good salespeople like yourself having a harder time making a living. I hope it gets better soon....


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app
 

·
East Coast Commuter
Joined
·
4,610 Posts
X3 (61,351)

X5 (45,013)

3-Series (44,578)

5-series (43,937)

4-series (31,379)

X1 (29,060)

If you combine 3 and 4 it's the top at 75,957.

These top 6 account for 81% of all units.

All SAVs total 162,763 or 52.3% of total units.


~MJB~


Exactly what I expected. These are the cars I buy....even if it’s the M version. I assume these numbers include the M versions.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,120 Posts
I'd like to offer some counter-points for debate, not disagreement!

mjb


High-end car brand salesmen earn more than ones selling peasant cars. They got the job at the M-B, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar-Land Rover, Lexus dealership because they're smarter than the salesmen working the Kia dealership down the street.
I've been in a highline store for 13+ years. We get sales people from all types of stores. Very few get there first job selling BMWs at a BMW Store. Most have proven themselves at another store. Track record and experience are the top determining factors, along with the intangible of "fit."

At my store we have told people applying without experience to go sell at another store before we will take them on.


A smart salesman car read his potential customers and then adjust his behavior to be most effective on that particular potential customer. If an idiot wanders it to a high-end dealership,a salesman might be just as happy to screw them as a Kia salesman would.
I've bolded a change above to be a little less generalized. But the first part is correct. Good salespeople adapt to the client.

While I was looking at the cars in the showroom, three BMW salesmen sat in their cubicles, thinking I was just a peasant looky-loo, because of my clothes, and lack of a watch. A fourth one came in from the lot and asked if he could help me. I'd have given $100 to be in the coffee room when my salesman told the other three that stayed in their cubicles that "the peasant driving a Nissan Sentra" just put a deposit down on an M3.
Many stores (mine included) have what is called an "Up" system. Salespeople sign in when they arrive and that is the order that they are called in to help a client. We often got criticized for not jumping up and helping someone, but it wasn't our turn. When you are not the "next up" person, you're suppose to be doing follow-up at your desk/office.

Might not have been the case in that store in 2000, but want people following the "life of the salesperson" to know that there might be a reason that the salesperson just looks up at you and smiles.

Most "up system" stores (vs "open floor" systems) implement the 10 feet 5 feet rule. If they are 10' or more away, make eye contact and say hi. If they are 5' or closer, you say hello and asked if they have been assisted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Not only are customers advisors leaving... so are customers... the leases right now are about as bad I've seen in a long time.
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top