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Discussion Starter #1
I am a long-time BMW owner and overall admirer of the brand. Also, I am a BMW CCA member. The BMWs I have owned in the past have been largely trouble-free, aside from maintenance, to which I prescribe to Mike Miller's schedule for most items. I am very happy that we have so many owners here who have had very good experiences with their E70s. I have not been so fortunate with this particular car.

What follows is not meant as a rant, but rather a series of data points. Please keep any discussion related to these data points rational. I do have Carly, so if any thoughts related to more diagnostic troubleshooting arise, I am happy to check and verify readings.

The car:
2010 X5D
Purchased in Southern California with approximately 38,500 miles.
Current mileage: 105,500 miles (approximate).
Car is currently located in Northern California.
Engine oil is changed every 5,000 miles, religiously.
Car is driven mostly highway miles (it is a diesel, after all).

Repair History Associated with CEL:

46,8xx mi: Installed EGR bracket
68,0xx mi: CEL, Cleaned metering valve, replaced both NOX sensors, replaced oil pipe to turbo due to leaking
68,2xx mi: CEL, tests found no reason for fault, received car back
69,0xx mi: CEL, replaced throttle valve, AC leak also fixed with new evaporator
70,6xx mi: CEL, Replaced Active Tank
71,3xx mi: CEL, Exhaust temperature sensor failed and replaced, replaced metering valve, replaced SCR catalyst, DDE reprogrammed
73,2xx mi: CEL, EGR valve replaced

Are we there yet? Nope, but I am unhappy. After researching potential problem areas on my own, I replace the troublesome thermostat, which was reading approximately 75 degrees C. The dealer did not listen to my thoughts on testing this.

75,7xx mi: CEL, Replaced delivery module for Active tank
85,9xx mi: CEL, Again replaced one NOX sensor (Feb 2017)
86,1xx mi: CEL, Again replaced other NOX sensor (March 2017)...I am now somewhat afraid to drive the car.
92,7xx mi: CEL, passive tank level sensor faulty September 2017)
104,9xx mi: CEL, Replaced both NOX sensors AND SCR catalyst (again). Thermostat tests normal - by the dealer doing the work who tested it without me asking this time. (December 2018/January 2019)

At this point, I submitted a request for BMW to buy-back this vehicle. Request was denied.

Thoughts? :)
 

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Resident Curmudgeon
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1. I lemoned my 2010. It had 33k-ish miles. Was resold in So Cal. But last I looked it was exported to Chile.

2. Is there a legal basis for a buyback or are you thinking BMW does this to keep longtime BMW owners happy? Near as I can tell you do not have a moss-Magnussen claim (all issues were after the initial warranty period)

3. All the same dealer?!? Kinda masochistic .... I assume some of this was PUMA cases, etc? I also assume some of it was under CA warranties?

4. Sucks. Sell it or drive it, but BMW isn't gonna pony up $. (BTW, what do you think the byback is? 105/120 gives 12.5%, or maybe $8k. You can trade it for the buyback amount. Or do you have a claim wherein the initial fault still exists and forst was DOCUMENTED before 4/50?

I wrote up the details of my lemon. Search for "should I lemon" over on xoutpost
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ard, as you know, I am well outside of any legal buy-back. I was attempting to see if BMW would extend some goodwill, but to no avail. Also, as you mentioned, given BMW’s current legal buy-back formula I would not receive much compensation for the vehicle anyway.

I do have a lot of respect for Ard, and frequently take his advise. One of the ways I used his advice is to have a good relationship with my dealership service advisor. Almost all of the CELs I had prior to 85k miles were covered under California emissions warranty or some form of goodwill. My old SA no longer works at the dealership, so this last round of work cost some money, but a lot less than if I listened to the new SA. He wanted me to pay fully for both NOX sensors (covered under BMW extended warranty)AND for a new footwell module, also covered under BMW extended warranty.

My current plan is to sell the vehicle. I like the car, but honestly hate owning it.


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I am a bit of a BMW fanboy and follow the Mike M maintenance guide to a certain degree (I only do brake fluid change every other year and I've been guilty of keeping oil for nearly 7.5k miles...)

I think you got a bad one. Sell it, move on. I had an E24 that was cursed as well as a MINI Countryman that also was not bringing any satisfaction. Sell it, move on.

FWIW I've had my X5d for nearly 6 years and it's been fantastic. Love it.
 

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I am a long-time BMW owner and overall admirer of the brand. Also, I am a BMW CCA member. The BMWs I have owned in the past have been largely trouble-free, aside from maintenance, to which I prescribe to Mike Miller's schedule for most items. I am very happy that we have so many owners here who have had very good experiences with their E70s. I have not been so fortunate with this particular car.

What follows is not meant as a rant, but rather a series of data points. Please keep any discussion related to these data points rational. I do have Carly, so if any thoughts related to more diagnostic troubleshooting arise, I am happy to check and verify readings.

The car:
2010 X5D
Purchased in Southern California with approximately 38,500 miles.
Current mileage: 105,500 miles (approximate).
Car is currently located in Northern California.
Engine oil is changed every 5,000 miles, religiously.
Car is driven mostly highway miles (it is a diesel, after all).

Repair History Associated with CEL:

46,8xx mi: Installed EGR bracket
68,0xx mi: CEL, Cleaned metering valve, replaced both NOX sensors, replaced oil pipe to turbo due to leaking
68,2xx mi: CEL, tests found no reason for fault, received car back
69,0xx mi: CEL, replaced throttle valve, AC leak also fixed with new evaporator
70,6xx mi: CEL, Replaced Active Tank
71,3xx mi: CEL, Exhaust temperature sensor failed and replaced, replaced metering valve, replaced SCR catalyst, DDE reprogrammed
73,2xx mi: CEL, EGR valve replaced

Are we there yet? Nope, but I am unhappy. After researching potential problem areas on my own, I replace the troublesome thermostat, which was reading approximately 75 degrees C. The dealer did not listen to my thoughts on testing this.

75,7xx mi: CEL, Replaced delivery module for Active tank
85,9xx mi: CEL, Again replaced one NOX sensor (Feb 2017)
86,1xx mi: CEL, Again replaced other NOX sensor (March 2017)...I am now somewhat afraid to drive the car.
92,7xx mi: CEL, passive tank level sensor faulty September 2017)
104,9xx mi: CEL, Replaced both NOX sensors AND SCR catalyst (again). Thermostat tests normal - by the dealer doing the work who tested it without me asking this time. (December 2018/January 2019)

At this point, I submitted a request for BMW to buy-back this vehicle. Request was denied.

Thoughts? :)
The NOx sensors and active/passive tanks are both covered by a BMW warranty to 10yr/100K. Apply for reimbursement.
 

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I am a long-time BMW owner and overall admirer of the brand. Also, I am a BMW CCA member. The BMWs I have owned in the past have been largely trouble-free, aside from maintenance, to which I prescribe to Mike Miller's schedule for most items. I am very happy that we have so many owners here who have had very good experiences with their E70s. I have not been so fortunate with this particular car.

What follows is not meant as a rant, but rather a series of data points. Please keep any discussion related to these data points rational. I do have Carly, so if any thoughts related to more diagnostic troubleshooting arise, I am happy to check and verify readings.

The car:
2010 X5D
Purchased in Southern California with approximately 38,500 miles.
Current mileage: 105,500 miles (approximate).
Car is currently located in Northern California.
Engine oil is changed every 5,000 miles, religiously.
Car is driven mostly highway miles (it is a diesel, after all).

Repair History Associated with CEL:

46,8xx mi: Installed EGR bracket
68,0xx mi: CEL, Cleaned metering valve, replaced both NOX sensors, replaced oil pipe to turbo due to leaking
68,2xx mi: CEL, tests found no reason for fault, received car back
69,0xx mi: CEL, replaced throttle valve, AC leak also fixed with new evaporator
70,6xx mi: CEL, Replaced Active Tank
71,3xx mi: CEL, Exhaust temperature sensor failed and replaced, replaced metering valve, replaced SCR catalyst, DDE reprogrammed
73,2xx mi: CEL, EGR valve replaced

Are we there yet? Nope, but I am unhappy. After researching potential problem areas on my own, I replace the troublesome thermostat, which was reading approximately 75 degrees C. The dealer did not listen to my thoughts on testing this.

75,7xx mi: CEL, Replaced delivery module for Active tank
85,9xx mi: CEL, Again replaced one NOX sensor (Feb 2017)
86,1xx mi: CEL, Again replaced other NOX sensor (March 2017)...I am now somewhat afraid to drive the car.
92,7xx mi: CEL, passive tank level sensor faulty September 2017)
104,9xx mi: CEL, Replaced both NOX sensors AND SCR catalyst (again). Thermostat tests normal - by the dealer doing the work who tested it without me asking this time. (December 2018/January 2019)

At this point, I submitted a request for BMW to buy-back this vehicle. Request was denied.

Thoughts? :)
OK, this sounds bit more than usual, but not surprising.
First, according to BMW thermostat is OK if it keeps temperature above 60c. That is BS. If you cannot keep 80c on HWY, thermostat is shoot. You can check it by accessing hidden menu.
Check extended warranties on bunch of these items! Passive tank I think is now 10/120k, active tank is for a long time 10/120k.
Also, what is CARB warranty on catalytic converter? 8/80k? Check did BMW increased warranty on that too.
Regardless, BMW 35d will always have emission issues, especially yours since you do not drive a lot, and these diesels like hard foot and long distance.
 

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Resident Curmudgeon
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:thumbup:

Ard, as you know, I am well outside of any legal buy-back. I was attempting to see if BMW would extend some goodwill, but to no avail. Also, as you mentioned, given BMW’s current legal buy-back formula I would not receive much compensation for the vehicle anyway.
There CAN be some oddities on lemons and buybacks.

Mine was 2 years old, but the mileage was based on the very FIRST time the issue showed. I was fastidious about collecting codes each time the car went in. They fought hard on this issue, it was probably a $12k difference.

I have also heard a story about a buyback involving a 10 year rust warranty..... although I was focussed on the 4/50, there MAY be other legal constructs you can use. Could you lemon a car under the 7/70 emissions? Food for thought. Maybe

As Ive noted elsewhere, BMW fights these all pretty hard.
 

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Did you have to pay for the second SCR Cat?

I replaced my SCR cat at 110K miles, but I think I could have gotten more out of it before I didn't have SCR efficiency issues totally related to a failing thermostat around 70K. I preemptively replace the thermostat every 50K.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The second SCR cat I did pay for, but thankfully not very much of the previous repairs.

Being pretty in-tune with this message board and understanding the “needs” of a Diesel engine, this car has been driven almost 90% highway since the replacement of most emissions components by 75k miles...and I do give it a workout!


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The second SCR cat I did pay for, but thankfully not very much of the previous repairs.

Being pretty in-tune with this message board and understanding the “needs” of a Diesel engine, this car has been driven almost 90% highway since the replacement of most emissions components by 75k miles...and I do give it a workout!


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How long it passed between first and second SCR replacement?


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Discussion Starter #12
How long it passed between first and second SCR replacement?


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The SCR catalyst was first replaced in February 2016 at around 71,xxx miles. So, it lasted almost 3 years and a little over 30,000 miles.


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I think what Edycol was trying to determine is whether or not the second SCR cat should have been covered under BMW's 2 year parts warranty.

Not a lot of miles between those two SCR cat replacements, when did you replace the thermostat?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The thermostat was replaced somewhere between 70-75k miles, right in the middle of the emissions system “refresh”.

I do know that is what edycol was likely trying to do. Unfortunately the 2-year time limit was up.

The part of this I cannot figure out is why the SCR catalyst needed replacement this quickly. There is likely an upstream problem, but there are a lot of variables and I do not understand the system well enough to figure this out. It is possible that the weak thermostat caused the first round of problems. But what about this recent SCR cat replacement? Did the NOX sensors need to be replaced? What is contaminating the SCR catalyst to cause such early failure?


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The thermostat was replaced somewhere between 70-75k miles, right in the middle of the emissions system “refresh”.

I do know that is what edycol was likely trying to do. Unfortunately the 2-year time limit was up.

The part of this I cannot figure out is why the SCR catalyst needed replacement this quickly. There is likely an upstream problem, but there are a lot of variables and I do not understand the system well enough to figure this out. It is possible that the weak thermostat caused the first round of problems. But what about this recent SCR cat replacement? Did the NOX sensors need to be replaced? What is contaminating the SCR catalyst to cause such early failure?


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Thermostat is not an issue. In order for DPF regeneration to occur, coolant temperature has to be above 60c. 75c issue with thermostat is related to glow plugs.
I am wondering whether dealer just decided to replace Cat without doing proper testing of pre and post NOx sensors? I had SCR cat replaced at 83k, and local BMW did everything before zeroing on Cat. They tested new NOx sensors on system etc, in the end they just couldn’t fix it without changing SCR cat.


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Nothing catastrophic but I would have considered full EGR/SCR/DPF delete after spending first $1500 in emissions problems. Try taking it to a good indy than dealership to save on repairs, if decide to keep it.
 

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Nothing catastrophic but I would have considered full EGR/SCR/DPF delete after spending first $1500 in emissions problems. Try taking it to a good indy than dealership to save on repairs, if decide to keep it.
Not possible in CA, especially LA.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Correct, edycol, I am in California. No emissions delete for me.

I agree about proper testing prior to replacing the SCR cat. I am not sure how much they really did, but given my communications with this new SA, I do believe that particular dealership understands diesel-related issues better than they used to 3 years ago. Back then, due to knowledge gained on this and other forums and reading the BMW diesel technical manual out there, I am pretty sure I understood the system better than the dealer techs who were (and continue) throwing parts at the car.

If I were keeping the car, I already have a a good independent shop in the area. They have done some limited work for me in the past, but I have been wrenching and learning about all things automotive for a solid 25 years now. I do most of my own work, and am currently in the middle of a head gasket job on my e36 M3.


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