Bimmerfest BMW banner

41 - 60 of 92 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
Hello,

There is two sides to depreciation. If you buy new than depreciation on these cars is brutal. You need to know this going in. Some people will only buy new. Because depreciation on these cars is so bad it opens up a fabulous opportunity to buy lightly used. Its a lot more work to buy lightly used as you need to find the right car and do your due diligence. I looked for a while when I bought 1.5 years ago a 2014 435ix with 22k miles and 6 months factory warranty left for $29,500. This car stickered at $58,500. The car was close to as new. I enjoy my car immensely and will not take a huge depreciation hit.
Depreciation is only’brutal’ if you have to sell it in 18 months because you don’t trust it to get you where you are going. Point is being missed that I could well afford the car, the maintenance and the expensive oil changes. What I couldn’t reconcile was the AWFUL dealer experience, the ride that felt like a Flintstone Car and having to drive a relatively new car home in limp mode (car, not me) because of a failure that I got for all that money.
 

·
Drink the koolaid or else
Joined
·
2,691 Posts
Depreciation is only’brutal’ if you have to sell it in 18 months because you don’t trust it to get you where you are going. Point is being missed that I could well afford the car, the maintenance and the expensive oil changes. What I couldn’t reconcile was the AWFUL dealer experience, the ride that felt like a Flintstone Car and having to drive a relatively new car home in limp mode (car, not me) because of a failure that I got for all that money.


Not dismissing your other issues but still not understanding why you were paying for oil changes? They are free for 3 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
Not dismissing your other issues but still not understanding why you were paying for oil changes? They are free for 3 years.
I wasn’t. They are free up to 36,000 which I passed. The next one (40,000) would not have been free. That isn’t the point. It was the premature Drivetrain Malfunction and having to limp home in a $65,000 car that was the final straw for me.
 

·
Drink the koolaid or else
Joined
·
2,691 Posts
Thanks for clarifying. Just trying to figure out what actual expenses you’d paid on a car with a full warranty left. Makes sense now.

$20,000 $50,000 $100,000. Cars have problems no matter what they’ve cost. and now and then a lemon gets through. Sorry for your troubles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,407 Posts
I've run into two of first-time and one-time BMW owners who freaked out when they paid for their first $120 oil change. Considering that most six-cylinder BMW's need 6.5 liters, it's not only synthetic, but a synthetic super-oil (BMW-LL01, etc.), that's not an unreasonable price. But, that didn't matter. An oil change on their last car was $35.

The cost of an oil change is why non-luxury car manufacturers were so reluctant to require synthetic oil in their cars.

Back in the early 1990's, GM 3800 V6's were having problems on conventional 5W-30 oil. Instead of switching them to synthetic 5W-30 (like they did in Corvettes and Cadillacs), they went to conventional 10W-30. It mitigated the problems, but didn't fix them. But, it was better than losing a lot of customers because "I ain't gonna buy no car that needs $7/quart oil."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,407 Posts
Hello,

There is two sides to depreciation. If you buy new than depreciation on these cars is brutal. You need to know this going in. Some people will only buy new. Because depreciation on these cars is so bad it opens up a fabulous opportunity to buy lightly used. Its a lot more work to buy lightly used as you need to find the right car and do your due diligence. I looked for a while when I bought 1.5 years ago a 2014 435ix with 22k miles and 6 months factory warranty left for $29,500. This car stickered at $58,500. The car was close to as new. I enjoy my car immensely and will not take a huge depreciation hit.
The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them. A friend of mine is a serial BMW leaser. Another friend, a millionaire who drives used cars, was interested in getting the serial leaser's M325i when it came off lease. But, it was trashed mostly from running it through a mechanical car wash every week or so. There was also a lot of curb rash on the front bumper and wheels.

Also, any used car comes with risk. My neighbor brought home a used Jaguar a few years ago. It wasn't there for two years before it was replaced with a new Suzuki CUV.

The only person I trust enough to buy a used BMW from is me. So, that's what I do... buy new, but keep them to 100k miles or so. I mitigate my costs by keeping them longer than the average new car buyer/leaser.

My 2014 535i stickered for $73k. After five years and 57k miles, it was worth $21k.

The OP does have a legitimate gripe about run-flat "Flintsone tires." I fixed that on my car by ditching them 20k miles early for some non-run-flats. They transformed the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
My last E28 oil change was approaching $60 - Castrol or Valvoline 5W-20. My E64 was $95 with LL-01. Money well spent if I don't have to do it myself. Religion may not save you from a turbo motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
751 Posts
The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them.
Realizing that the operative word here is "most", it's also important to realize that many people just don't know how to care for cars despite their best efforts or intentions or situations.
I've usually found myself purchasing as nice a car as I can find, but none of the enthusiast stuff has been done that we talk about here in the forums. So I chip away at that stuff and the next owner is usually the first person that comes to look at it after I post it for sale. Basic rule of thumb, use high quality parts and fluids, try to catch issues early, and batch your jobs to save on labor time (while you're in there type thinking). Professional mechanics laugh when this comes up in conversation, but some of those guys are like wizards and get paid hourly or book time.

Back to the original subject matter, one of the reasons first year values are so low is because of the rental fleets and damaged cars dumped back in to the market. Oh, no checkbox for prior rental on the kbb app? You don't say...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter #49
The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them. A friend of mine is a serial BMW leaser. Another friend, a millionaire who drives used cars, was interested in getting the serial leaser's M325i when it came off lease. But, it was trashed mostly from running it through a mechanical car wash every week or so. There was also a lot of curb rash on the front bumper and wheels.

Also, any used car comes with risk. My neighbor brought home a used Jaguar a few years ago. It wasn't there for two years before it was replaced with a new Suzuki CUV.

The only person I trust enough to buy a used BMW from is me. So, that's what I do... buy new, but keep them to 100k miles or so. I mitigate my costs by keeping them longer than the average new car buyer/leaser.

My 2014 535i stickered for $73k. After five years and 57k miles, it was worth $21k.

The OP does have a legitimate gripe about run-flat "Flintsone tires." I fixed that on my car by ditching them 20k miles early for some non-run-flats. They transformed the car.
AP, does ‘OP’ stand for Original Poster or Old Poop? Having plans to build a 3-lift car repair shop in your house is not exactly a testimony to your faith in BMW reliability!!***128540; Only teasing. Nice to meet you all, I’m glad I could afford the luxury of trying a BMW and, most of all, getting rid of it. As the French say: “à chacun son gôut”
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them. A friend of mine is a serial BMW leaser. Another friend, a millionaire who drives used cars, was interested in getting the serial leaser's M325i when it came off lease. But, it was trashed mostly from running it through a mechanical car wash every week or so. There was also a lot of curb rash on the front bumper and wheels.

Also, any used car comes with risk. My neighbor brought home a used Jaguar a few years ago. It wasn't there for two years before it was replaced with a new Suzuki CUV.

The only person I trust enough to buy a used BMW from is me. So, that's what I do... buy new, but keep them to 100k miles or so. I mitigate my costs by keeping them longer than the average new car buyer/leaser.

My 2014 535i stickered for $73k. After five years and 57k miles, it was worth $21k.

The OP does have a legitimate gripe about run-flat "Flintsone tires." I fixed that on my car by ditching them 20k miles early for some non-run-flats. They transformed the car.
I think there are always going to be people that dont take care of any brand car in year 1, year 2 and over the life of the car. This is why Buying lightly used is far more work but worth it when it comes to future depreciation. You really need to do your due diligence and find a solid well maintained ( with receipts) car that has the options you want. These type of cars are out there. You need to be disciplined and pass on questionable cars even when they have the right options and price. You need proof they where well maintained and should always do a pre purchase inspection at a well regarded dealer with good reviews. The process can take time but in the end is well worth it. Very rewarding when you end up with a great car for 40% or more off sticker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Depreciation is only***8217;brutal***8217; if you have to sell it in 18 months because you don***8217;t trust it to get you where you are going. Point is being missed that I could well afford the car, the maintenance and the expensive oil changes. What I couldn***8217;t reconcile was the AWFUL dealer experience, the ride that felt like a Flintstone Car and having to drive a relatively new car home in limp mode (car, not me) because of a failure that I got for all that money.
I know you had a ton of trouble with your car and that is a big bummer. However depreciation on these cars is brutal after 18 months, 36 months, 48 months etc.... Same thing with Mercedes and Audi.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,407 Posts
AP, does ‘OP’ stand for Original Poster or Old Poop? Having plans to build a 3-lift car repair shop in your house is not exactly a testimony to your faith in BMW reliability!!***128540; Only teasing. Nice to meet you all, I’m glad I could afford the luxury of trying a BMW and, most of all, getting rid of it. As the French say: “à chacun son gôut”
Yeah, "original poster." Remember Ocean Pacific clothing? … with "OP" on everything.

Three bays, just one lift and that's mostly for storage. Actually, I'm intrigued by portable Quick Jack's for doing tire rotations and brake work. We're moving to the foothills of the Smokey Mountains. So, we'll be wearing out brakes more than we do here in Floriduh.

If construction costs are manageable, I'm also going to have a detached one-holer. That could be for whoever rents a future basement apartment.

I currently have access to a fully equipped automotive shop where I used to work. But, I'll lose that when we move.

At 59k miles, the only problems with my 2014 535i has been corroded exhaust tips and the driver's inside door latch is occasionally acting up (will not unlock the door when pulled twice). But, it hasn't acted up since the weather got hot. I bet it will come back in the winter, though. This is the second most trouble-free car I've ever owned, behind Frau Putzer's 2006 Honda Accord.

Most of my happy time in my new garage will be washing, waxing, Armor-All-ing, and Endurance-ing. "Autoputzer" is German for "car washer." The garage will be insulated, heated, AC-ed, and Bay #1 will have a drain in the floor and extra lighting for 24/7/365 car washing.

"Auto" means "self." "Putz" in Yiddish means to play or act ineffectively. So, "Autoputzer" could also mean "one who plays with himself." :confused: Let's go with "car washer."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,407 Posts
Realizing that the operative word here is "most", it's also important to realize that many people just don't know how to care for cars despite their best efforts or intentions or situations.
I've usually found myself purchasing as nice a car as I can find, but none of the enthusiast stuff has been done that we talk about here in the forums. So I chip away at that stuff and the next owner is usually the first person that comes to look at it after I post it for sale. Basic rule of thumb, use high quality parts and fluids, try to catch issues early, and batch your jobs to save on labor time (while you're in there type thinking). Professional mechanics laugh when this comes up in conversation, but some of those guys are like wizards and get paid hourly or book time.

Back to the original subject matter, one of the reasons first year values are so low is because of the rental fleets and damaged cars dumped back in to the market. Oh, no checkbox for prior rental on the kbb app? You don't say...
I think there are always going to be people that dont take care of any brand car in year 1, year 2 and over the life of the car. This is why Buying lightly used is far more work but worth it when it comes to future depreciation. You really need to do your due diligence and find a solid well maintained ( with receipts) car that has the options you want. These type of cars are out there. You need to be disciplined and pass on questionable cars even when they have the right options and price. You need proof they where well maintained and should always do a pre purchase inspection at a well regarded dealer with good reviews. The process can take time but in the end is well worth it. Very rewarding when you end up with a great car for 40% or more off sticker.
I know two millionaires who only buy used cars.

I've never found anybody with a "short automotive attention span" who takes exceptionally good car of their cars. There are older cars around that have been taken exceptionally good car of, though. The catch is that their owners' friends, relatives, and co-workers are waiting in line for their cars. I have people waiting for my cars when I'm done with them. I have six people waiting for my 535i, including the buyer of my previous BMW. I even have people waiting for my 2007 Chevy Cobalt.

I had a co-worker who'd buy a copy of Auto Trader when the new issue came out on Thursdays. He'd circle promising cars and go shopping on Saturdays. He'd probably look at 100 cars before buying one. But, that 100th car was an absolute creampuff. This was his hobby. He'd go car shopping even if he didn't need a car. He enjoyed visiting with people. It got to the point where his friends would "placed orders" with him, asking him to find them a pick-up, SUV, sedan, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
There are older cars around that have been taken exceptionally good car of, though. The catch is that their owners' friends, relatives, and co-workers are waiting in line for their cars. I have people waiting for my cars when I'm done with them. I have six people waiting for my 535i, including the buyer of my previous BMW. I even have people waiting for my 2007 Chevy Cobalt.
Yea verily. That's why E39 M5 owners are hard to deal with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter #55
"Auto" means "self." "Putz" in Yiddish means to play or act ineffectively. So, "Autoputzer" could also mean "one who plays with himself." :confused: Let's go with "car washer."
There is nothing wrong with “putzing around with autos” as an alternative definition. I would avoid going down the rabbit hole of other definitions of ‘putz’. You will get to a place more unpleasant and intimidating than the waiting area around your BMW service desk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,154 Posts
Yeah, "original poster." Remember Ocean Pacific clothing? … with "OP" on everything.
...We're moving to the foothills of the Smokey Mountains.
OP is still around, as is Hang Ten.
It's the Smoky Mountains - don't wait for the locals to correct you!
I enjoy your car-related posts - thanks for the time you take to share & educate us!
 

·
Apay Kapoy
Joined
·
944 Posts
AP, does 'OP' stand for Original Poster or Old Poop? Having plans to build a 3-lift car repair shop in your house is not exactly a testimony to your faith in BMW reliability!!***128540; Only teasing. Nice to meet you all, I'm glad I could afford the luxury of trying a BMW and, most of all, getting rid of it. As the French say: "à chacun son gôut"
I get where you are coming from. I do and I don't understand the BMW depreciation (I paid 55K on mine and now it's barely 15K); aye on the dealership experience, ditto on the RFTs, and for what it's worth we expect a little more return from these BMWs. What car did you get after the BMW?

My BMW experience is a bit more favorable. I think my 2013 335i that I've had new since 2012 with almost 94,000 miles is probably on it's last legs. I want to keep it but I may need to let it go soon. I could afford it but I just could stomach paying that much for fixes. I even changed the oil cooler and oil filter housing gaskets myself. I drew the line on the valve cover gasket job. I have trust issues now because of the drivetrain malfunction from the bad fuel injector that stranded us last April. I just have a bad feeling that I'll get more of those DTMs in the near future.
 

·
Nuclear engineer
02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 98K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
Joined
·
16,426 Posts
there is nothing wrong with ***8220;putzing around with autos***8221; as an alternative definition. I would avoid going down the rabbit hole of other definitions of ***8216;putz***8217;.
lol. +1.

To refresh my recollection of my childhood vernacular, I checked with G00gle Translate. You can too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,407 Posts
There is nothing wrong with “putzing around with autos” as an alternative definition. I would avoid going down the rabbit hole of other definitions of ‘putz’. You will get to a place more unpleasant and intimidating than the waiting area around your BMW service desk.
After we were married, somebody asked Frau Putzer what my hobbies were. Golf? Fishing? Tennis? Woodworking, etc.?

"It's the damnedest thing. His only hobbies seem to be accounting and washing cars. But, our finances are in order and we'll eventually be able to retire without being greaters at Walmart... and it sure is nice driving a clean car."

A psych' major once told me that a key to mental health is to have a sense of accomplishment multiple times a day. Washing a car will do that. When I was working, my tasks took one to two years to complete. That can drive you crazy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter #60
After we were married, somebody asked Frau Putzer what my hobbies were. Golf? Fishing? Tennis? Woodworking, etc.?

"It's the damnedest thing. His only hobbies seem to be accounting and washing cars. But, our finances are in order and we'll eventually be able to retire without being greaters at Walmart... and it sure is nice driving a clean car."

A psych' major once told me that a key to mental health is to have a sense of accomplishment multiple times a day. Washing a car will do that. When I was working, my tasks took one to two years to complete. That can drive you crazy.

Agree about washing the car..... nothing like it
 
41 - 60 of 92 Posts
Top