DSC - How many turn it off?
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Do a lot of people here turn it off. I've only turned it off a few times, mostly I leave it alone.
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After driving much less powerfull front wheel drive cars for 21 years, but the bimmer for only 7 months, I'm not anywhere near ready to try turning DSC off. Maybe after a few track schools, but not now.
Only on the track...
DSC has saved my butt a few times already. I can't imagine turning it off except for practicing in parking lots. I'm a decent driver but this is my first rear-drive car. Even if I did take driving school, I'd probably still leave it on. The car cost too much money for me to crash it b/c I thought I didn't need DSC.
DSC is a save your ass feature. On the street due to all the variables that I cant control, it stays on as a "safety net."
On the track or Autocross, it's totally worthless. You MUST drive with it off if you intend to get anywhere near good lap times. DSC prevents nearly all wheel slip, as it reduces power or adds brakes as needed, not what is needed for the fastest lap times.
Want to learn what your car is really capible of (you'll be amazed) Go do an autocross.
More info here: http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/
On the track or Autocross, it's totally worthless. You MUST drive with it off if you intend to get anywhere near good lap times. DSC prevents nearly all wheel slip, as it reduces power or adds brakes as needed, not what is needed for the fastest lap times.
Want to learn what your car is really capible of (you'll be amazed) Go do an autocross.
More info here: http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/
I am subscribing to the Stuka school of driving...NO DSC. I turn it off as soon as I start the car.
Then again, in So Cal it NEVER rains so DSC hardly EVER kicks in. I also find DSC way too intrusive when you just want to have a little fun. It cuts power prematurely on a quick launch.
Then again, in So Cal it NEVER rains so DSC hardly EVER kicks in. I also find DSC way too intrusive when you just want to have a little fun. It cuts power prematurely on a quick launch.
DSC can get pretty intrusive when it wants to. Try doing some WOT acceleration with it on, and every time you slam into the next gear, the engine just sits there for a sec and you wonder if you broke something.
But it is a safety feature and when it needs to do its job in that respect, I think it works pretty well. When I tried chasing down that E24 on Ortega Hwy a couple weeks ago with 3 people and some shopping onboard, it kicked in right around the threshold of grip, and though I don't think I was doing anything beyond my abilities, it was reassuring to the point where I though about turning it off, and decided to leave it on.
I'm still trying to decide if turning it off during regular driving makes a difference. Sometimes it feels like the EML is less intrusive during shifts and such, but it could be psychosomatic. :dunno:
But it is a safety feature and when it needs to do its job in that respect, I think it works pretty well. When I tried chasing down that E24 on Ortega Hwy a couple weeks ago with 3 people and some shopping onboard, it kicked in right around the threshold of grip, and though I don't think I was doing anything beyond my abilities, it was reassuring to the point where I though about turning it off, and decided to leave it on.
I'm still trying to decide if turning it off during regular driving makes a difference. Sometimes it feels like the EML is less intrusive during shifts and such, but it could be psychosomatic. :dunno:
Actually, I'm going to disagree with you here.
I don't think DSC slows you down dramatically. Possibly 1-2 seconds MAX with a professional on a roadcourse. The reason being is that DSC intervenes with the traction limits of the vehicle are exceeded, ideally in roadcourse situation you drive TO the limits, but do not exceed them. Usually to reach this limit, you have to go a bit over the edge and induce a bit of tire slip, which is where the DSC comes in. When you are driving smoothly to the traction limit, DSC does not come in hard. It is very seamless and does typically not disrupt the car's balance. I.E. With smooth weight transfer, DSC will have very little effect on lap times. At auto-x, it would make a bigger difference than on a roadcourse
Go read the article in C&D on stability control systems a few years ago. Titled "Cyper Co-Pilot" Using a Corvette and 911. The professional drivers were only a tiny bit faster in the Corvette in wet and dry with stability control on, and actually faster with the stability ON in the Porsche.
I don't think DSC slows you down dramatically. Possibly 1-2 seconds MAX with a professional on a roadcourse. The reason being is that DSC intervenes with the traction limits of the vehicle are exceeded, ideally in roadcourse situation you drive TO the limits, but do not exceed them. Usually to reach this limit, you have to go a bit over the edge and induce a bit of tire slip, which is where the DSC comes in. When you are driving smoothly to the traction limit, DSC does not come in hard. It is very seamless and does typically not disrupt the car's balance. I.E. With smooth weight transfer, DSC will have very little effect on lap times. At auto-x, it would make a bigger difference than on a roadcourse
Go read the article in C&D on stability control systems a few years ago. Titled "Cyper Co-Pilot" Using a Corvette and 911. The professional drivers were only a tiny bit faster in the Corvette in wet and dry with stability control on, and actually faster with the stability ON in the Porsche.
JT - '02 330i said:
Nate you've got more track experience than I, but I've found I like the car better with it off.
On autocross, I'm going to strongly hold my point that it's totally worthless. Good run times require more slip than DSC permits.
On autocross, I'm going to strongly hold my point that it's totally worthless. Good run times require more slip than DSC permits.
Turning off the DSC is one of the very FIRST things I do when I get into my car!! Unless it's raining...
Not to throw any ideas out there but wouldn't it be possible to rig up a circuit to the back of the DSC switch so that on startup the switch is ground out for a long enough period to kill the DSC? 
Can we qualify whether we're talking about partial disabling (pushing the DSC botton) or total disabling (pushing and holding the DSC button for 3-5 seconds)?
As for me, I leave it on, though my first rear-wheel drive car was a '95 M3 that did have a limited slip dif but no ASC.
As for me, I leave it on, though my first rear-wheel drive car was a '95 M3 that did have a limited slip dif but no ASC.
Kaz, if you figure it out, let me know, as I would love to do this. Vince, are you here? Mr. electronics guru??
Kaz said:Not to throw any ideas out there but wouldn't it be possible to rig up a circuit to the back of the DSC switch so that on startup the switch is ground out for a long enough period to kill the DSC?
And the Raffi school of thought too!
The HACK said:
Outside of Mid-June to Mid-Sept, it rain here almost daily. I tend to leave DSC on.
Ed
Ed
Rain builds character
I drive on the Canyon roads when it rains with DSC off to avoid traffic, and I am still alive today. You just have to realize that the rain line is much different than the dry line, and drive accordingly.
Once you learn how to react to RWD oversteer and what not, you'll realize that you really don't need DSC.:thumbup:
Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG
I don't know how many schools have you done, or if you have been practicing catching the rear, but rain should not be a problem.Ed328Ci said:
I drive on the Canyon roads when it rains with DSC off to avoid traffic, and I am still alive today. You just have to realize that the rain line is much different than the dry line, and drive accordingly.
Once you learn how to react to RWD oversteer and what not, you'll realize that you really don't need DSC.:thumbup:
Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG
Until I can go to some sort of driving school to learn how my car works at the limit, I'm leaving DSC on. This is the first car that I've ever driven extensively that allows me to push it so hard, so I have next to no experience in what happens should things go wrong.
I turn it off periodically. If you do any spirited shifting from first to second with it on, the car trips over itself pretty bad. I'm certainly no expert, but I've driven manual RWD vehicles (exclusinvely) all my life so I guess I'm just used to how RWD cars respond. It just doesn't feel right with it on sometimes. :dunno:
--SONET
--SONET
I drive with it off about 50% of the time. HOWEVER, in an AWD car, DSC is both more intrusive and doesn't become effective until much later, anyhow.
And Kaz, look here:
http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/tips_pages/DSCoff.htm
And Kaz, look here:
http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/tips_pages/DSCoff.htm
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