[Guest]

Here's a link to Fred's Roadfly post- http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e65/forum.php?postid=516771&page=1

Note especially the followup from "Mark".

Fred first admits that a 3 year old design from MB is outselling the E65 and then this Mark guy shows how sales have gone down each month since the car's introduction.

Sure, only time will time with any certainty. But it sure doesn't look good.

On a side note, I saw my first on-the-road E65 this morning and it's really, really scary looking when you put it amongst normal looking cars.

 

[Mr. The Edge]

very interesting...not looking good :eeps: :eeps:

 

[Kaz]

I guess we'll see if this downwards spiral continues or if that commercial with the hallucinating guy works.

Its no surprise that early sales are good, since pre-orders and 'I-want-it-cause-its-new' buyers will snatch them up. I noticed at my last trip to the local dealer that there were a LOT of used 750iL on the lot, and, interestingly, only 1 740i Sport.

 

[JST]

This quote from another post on the E65 board is not heartening:

The same article in the March 6 Autocar (Wolfgang König's column on p.15) quotes insiders as saying that the 5er will be "even more of an aquired taste than the odd-looking 7 series and it is too late to do anything about it."

Oops.

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e65/forum.php?postid=514217&page=1

 

[Alex Baumann]

Interesting figures, time will tell for sure.

On the other hand, the Q1/2002 sales figures (in the USA) of german car manufacturers has been published here. In the first quarter BMW has increased it sales (53.605 units) 14.6% compared to Q1/2002.

 

[nate]

I have already seen this...

The S class with 4 different engine variants out sells the 745 by 130 units in the 1st quarter, when the 7 has only the 745 and a handful of Li models. So BMW sells 4000+ SWB 745s in 3 months. Your point is????? I don't see how this is a letdown.

The S has ALWAYS outsold the 7 series anyway :dunno:

 

[Guest]

I have already seen this...

The S class with 4 different engine variants out sells the 745 by 130 units in the 1st quarter, when the 7 has only the 745 and a handful of Li models. So BMW sells 4000+ SWB 745s in 3 months. Your point is????? I don't see how this is a letdown.

The S has ALWAYS outsold the 7 series anyway :dunno:

Any comment on the month to month sales slippage since January?

 

[TD]

I have already seen this...

The S class with 4 different engine variants out sells the 745 by 130 units in the 1st quarter, when the 7 has only the 745 and a handful of Li models. So BMW sells 4000+ SWB 745s in 3 months. Your point is????? I don't see how this is a letdown.

The S has ALWAYS outsold the 7 series anyway :dunno:

Oh you are such a sweetie Nate. Around the house, Chris and I refer to you and Alex as "The Wonder Twins". While it won't keep BMWAG in business, we truly appreciate your support.

If you're ever out in LA, let me know. I'll show you a good time.

 

[DaveN323i]

I have already seen this...

The S class with 4 different engine variants out sells the 745 by 130 units in the 1st quarter, when the 7 has only the 745 and a handful of Li models. So BMW sells 4000+ SWB 745s in 3 months. Your point is????? I don't see how this is a letdown.

The S has ALWAYS outsold the 7 series anyway :dunno:

Yes, but not that many new models have lower sales as the months go by. They should be up, not down.

[Edit] The market place will decide whether E65 is successful or not. I don't care what Bangle said about design leadership. If people don't like it, no matter what kind of sweet talk will do. I hope it is not has bad as the 8 series.

 

[nate]

Any comment on the month to month sales slippage since January?

Certainly,

First the quote you reference: "Jan 02 1,510
Feb 02 1,347
Mar 02 1,424

Adjusted to 31 days

Jan 02 1,510 100.0%
Feb 02 1,491 98.7%
Mar 02 1,424 94.3%

April's gonna be an interesting month. Interesting to see how 745iL sales trend over two months and how they affect short wheelbase sales."

Alright, there is a fundamental flaw in his logic. Late March was when the LWB model came out. His totals are only counting SWB models. The total E65 sales for March with the LWB and SWB cars totaled is 1651 units. Remember, LWB production is VERY limited right now and LWB cars VASTLY outsell the SWB ones. February sales may have been lower due to people holding off buying due to the coming release of the LWB model, which is much more desirable to most buyers than the SWB car. For reference, in 1998, the 740iL outsold the 740i by well over almost 2.5:1

I don't think that we can speak of the sucess of this car until at 3 quarters have passed. All 745 models will be in full production and there will be no "hangover" effects of the car being the new kid on the block. Also, it is always a good idea to compare price and feature content when going over sales. The 745Li has a lower base price than the S430 and has more features and better performance, which in turn make the S430 relatively more expensive. In 2 quarters, I would like to compare the sales of the 745 and the S430, and of course the S500.

Even if the 7 doesn't do well against MB (which hasn't happened yet), I would STILL much rather have the 7 series :bigpimp:

 

[Guest]

Even if the 7 doesn't do well against MB (which hasn't happened yet), I would STILL much rather have the 7 series :bigpimp:

And it looks like you have a new friend too. LOL!

 

[nate]

Oh you are such a sweetie Nate. Around the house, Chris and I refer to you and Alex as "The Wonder Twins". While it won't keep BMWAG in business, we truly appreciate your support.

If you're ever out in LA, let me know. I'll show you a good time.

Thanks Adrian!

Do you think that I could get an advanced copy of the Z5? :bigpimp:

 

[nate]

And it looks like you have a new friend too. LOL!

Haha

You can't tell me that you aren't exited about the Z5 too

 

[nate]

Adrian,

Why doesn't your friend Chris post on here? I'm sure that we would all welcome him. Or does he post under an alter-ego? :eeps:

 

[Guest]

Haha

You can't tell me that you aren't exited about the Z5 too

No. From what I've read, it's going to be SMG only. I'm still not willing to give up my clutch pedal.

And the spy pics of it are hideous.

Make it good looking and give it a stick and, yes, it sounds damn appealing.

 

[nate]

No. From what I've read, it's going to be SMG only. I'm still not willing to give up my clutch pedal.

And the spy pics of it are hideous.

Make it good looking and give it a stick and, yes, it sounds damn appealing.

I thought that SMG would be an option. It will be an option in the upcoming M5 and M6 models. Hell, SMG requires a real manual anyway, it doesn't make any sense why a real manual wouldn't be offered :dunno:

 

[Guest]

I thought that SMG would be an option. It will be an option in the upcoming M5 and M6 models. Hell, SMG requires a real manual anyway, it doesn't make any sense why a real manual wouldn't be offered :dunno:

I've theorized in many posts that I suspect BMW wants to move to a single tranny. They hope the "enthusiasts" buy off on SMG so that they can do so.

Think of the cost savings if they only have to certify one tranny per engine/platform combo in the US and European markets. It cuts certification costs in half for models currently being offered with both manual trannies and slushies.

Why do you think it's being offered as an //M-only option in the US currently? To build it up in people's minds as a 'performance" tranny not just merely a more technologically complicated steptronic.

Just watch...

 

[nate]

I've theorized in many posts that I suspect BMW wants to move to a single tranny. They hope the "enthusiasts" buy off on SMG so that they can do so.

Think of the cost savings if they only have to certify one tranny per engine/platform combo in the US and European markets. It cuts certification costs in half for models currently being offered with both manual trannies and slushies.

Why do you think it's being offered as an //M-only option in the US currently? To build it up in people's minds as a 'performance" tranny not just merely a more technologically complicated steptronic.

Just watch...

Well, you may be right. Time will tell. I have often wondered if that will happen. SMG truly is the performance transmission choice. It shifts faster than a manual and does every thing that a conventional one will. I haven't driven one, but it does look promising. I don't know if it will be as fun though. It definatally will not be the sole tranny until they perfect the automatic mode. Once they do, it is possible that SMG will be the only tranny.

It would be cool to have a 760Li with SMG and a sports package, a real M7. (back on topic )

 

[Guest]

Well, you may be right. Time will tell.

Well, being the cynic I am, I looked for any reference to a manual tranny in every Z5-realted item I've read. There's always a mention of SMG-II but no mention of a 5-spd or 6-spd manual. I would thinkt hat would be relevent, especially a 6-speed (which you'd expect in this car).

Please find a reference to a manual tranny so I can actually be cautiously excited about an upcoming BMW model.

As for the M7, I'm sure you've seen THIS-

 

[31st330i]

Yes, but not that many new models have lower sales as the months go by. They should be up, not down.

did someone say ford edsel?