Bimmerfest BMW banner

1 - 20 of 64 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

My 2008 (E70) X5 is throwing up a DPF warning every time after about 10 mins of either idling or driving. I have put an OBD reader on it but it is not showing a fault or code. The warning essentially says that the particulate filter needs to be looked at and that it is possible to still drive but may experience loss of power. It also says that I should take it to BMW to get it looked at.

I have noticed that the car is currently consuming 11.9L/100km when highway driving and 14.9L/100km during city driving. Referrencing Redbook, this seems extremely high fuel consumption.

The car has 157000 km on the clock and I have only had it for 5000km however the fault showed up as soon I drove off after i paid for the car. just my luck!

So i have some questions which i hope someone is able to help me with:

- Does this sound like just a generic warning to go in to BMW and get a quote (or replacement DPF) as it is nearing it's 200,000km life span?

-Does it sound like the car is in limp mode?

-Does it sound like my DPF is stuffed?

Any thoughts/help would be grateful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Hi All,

My 2008 (E70) X5 is throwing up a DPF warning every time after about 10 mins of either idling or driving. I have put an OBD reader on it but it is not showing a fault or code. The warning essentially says that the particulate filter needs to be looked at and that it is possible to still drive but may experience loss of power. It also says that I should take it to BMW to get it looked at.

I have noticed that the car is currently consuming 11.9L/100km when highway driving and 14.9L/100km during city driving. Referrencing Redbook, this seems extremely high fuel consumption.

The car has 157000 km on the clock and I have only had it for 5000km however the fault showed up as soon I drove off after i paid for the car. just my luck!

So i have some questions which i hope someone is able to help me with:

- Does this sound like just a generic warning to go in to BMW and get a quote (or replacement DPF) as it is nearing it's 200,000km life span?

-Does it sound like the car is in limp mode?

-Does it sound like my DPF is stuffed?

Any thoughts/help would be grateful.
firstly what you use to read the codes?

the only way to see if the car has an issue with the DPF is run a ISTA/INPA test for it, see the back pressure at idle at 2000 and red line if it is within spec then possibly it will need a long journey driven italian tuning style with a DPF cleaner in the tank to make it easier to clean it.

if the level are really out then you can still try the above and if the numbers return to normality you saved your money for a DPF replacement.

or could be the back pressure sensor as well

looking at the consumption and the other issue you are having i would say take the car need to get dpf injectors cleaned ( i use archoli 6400 this will clean DPF turbo and injectors) for me is the more likely issue for what you describe

in relation to your questions
- Does this sound like just a generic warning to go in to BMW and get a quote (or replacement DPF) as it is nearing it's 200,000km life span? there is a alert but this would throw a code

-Does it sound like the car is in limp mode? the car would be sluggish and not rev over 2800 RPM

-Does it sound like my DPF is stuffed? to many variables to say yes or not
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your response askim98.

I used a cheap scan tool (OBD2) reader i bought off eBay to try read the code. This tool worked well on my E53 X5 so i would assume that it would work on the E70, which is why i thought this might just be a warning/caution instead of an error. Unfortunately there's no code number when the warning pops up however I will post up a photo of the error/warning ASAP.

When you say "italian tuning style", how high should my rev range be and for how long should it be for? as I have tried driving on the highway for 40 mins at a constant speed of 110km/hour and the fault still showed up the next day.

Thanks for your input on the limp mode, I am relieved as it doesn't sound like it's in it as there doesn't seem to be any difference in power and It rev's cleanly past 3000 rpm.

I have purchased the Archoil 6400-d max today and will try that and the"italian tuning style" driving once it arrives. Hopefully that does the trick, i'll let you know how it goes.

Alternatively, I have read on here that the Carly app (and plug) should be able to help diagnose this:
Do you think that it would?
Have you (or anyone) had any experience with it?
Anyone know the best/cheapest place to get the plug/Wifi component?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
Hi All,



My 2008 (E70) X5 is throwing up a DPF warning every time after about 10 mins of either idling or driving. I have put an OBD reader on it but it is not showing a fault or code. The warning essentially says that the particulate filter needs to be looked at and that it is possible to still drive but may experience loss of power. It also says that I should take it to BMW to get it looked at.



I have noticed that the car is currently consuming 11.9L/100km when highway driving and 14.9L/100km during city driving. Referrencing Redbook, this seems extremely high fuel consumption.



The car has 157000 km on the clock and I have only had it for 5000km however the fault showed up as soon I drove off after i paid for the car. just my luck!



So i have some questions which i hope someone is able to help me with:



- Does this sound like just a generic warning to go in to BMW and get a quote (or replacement DPF) as it is nearing it's 200,000km life span?



-Does it sound like the car is in limp mode?



-Does it sound like my DPF is stuffed?



Any thoughts/help would be grateful.
As long as regenerations are occurring normally, you don't need to do anything yet.

Two BMW specific codes are stored and won't clear until the DPF life is reset after replacing the DPF. There is no need to panic and no need to do anything yet because these are information only codes about the DPF's remaining life. The DPF remaining life is a calculated value and based on a number of factors.

The codes are 452A and 4D4A. Code 452A gets stored around 150k miles. No warning light or limp mode is triggered. The code is an information only code for BMW service to alert the customer that the DPF is approaching its calculated end of life and they should schedule an appointment soon for a $4800 DPF replacement. My 12 X5 35d triggered the 452A code around 155k miles.

Code 4D4A is another information only code for BMW service to alert the customer that the miles on the car have exceeded the calculated life of the DPF because the car continued to be driven after getting the 452A code. Code 4D4A triggers a one time warning about about the DPF at exactly 10 minutes after startup. The car basically starts nagging the owner about the DPF at this point and doesn't do anything else. You can clear the message and drive on.

Note that the DPF doesn't necessarily need to be replaced yet as long as regenerations are still occurring normally. My 12 X5 35d triggered the 4D4A code and 10 minute warning behavior after startup at around 171k miles. I regularly check DPF data and regen status with the Carly app to know that regens are still occurring normally.

My 12 X5 35d is only at 210k miles and still has the original DPF. Power and mileage are where they should be. No reduced power at all. My 100 miles per day of spirited highway driving might have something to do with it. I expect it will be a while before I actually have to do anything about the DPF.

Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
looking at the consumption and the other issue you are having i would say take the car need to get dpf injectors cleaned ( i use archoli 6400 this will clean DPF turbo and injectors) for me is the more likely issue for what you describe
What exactly do you mean by "DPF Injectors"? I'm not a master BMW mechanic, but as far as I'm aware, there exists no such thing...

The most common & realistic cause for bad fuel economy reported is due to a failed thermostat that will overcool the engine. If your coolant temps are below 83C after the engine is fully warmed up, it's a sign of a failing thermostat. If coolant temps sit below 75C, you'll have issues with DPF regeneration, poor gas mileage, & reportedly higher failure rate of the glow plug system.

Higher engine temps (around 90-100C), for both diesel & petrol, run more efficient; lower temps are better / safer for making power (albeit at the expense of efficiency).

A lot of BMW gasoline engines employ an electronically controlled thermostat to reduce coolant temp when the engine & transmission control modules detects hard driving. The E70 35d engine does not have this, where stabilized engine temp should be 85C - 95C depending on ambient temps
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
22,792 Posts
How long until we have that seminal thread on DPF removal and cleaning for DIYers!?!??

;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Thank you for your response askim98.

I used a cheap scan tool (OBD2) reader i bought off eBay to try read the code. This tool worked well on my E53 X5 so i would assume that it would work on the E70, which is why i thought this might just be a warning/caution instead of an error. Unfortunately there's no code number when the warning pops up however I will post up a photo of the error/warning ASAP.

When you say "italian tuning style", how high should my rev range be and for how long should it be for? as I have tried driving on the highway for 40 mins at a constant speed of 110km/hour and the fault still showed up the next day.

Thanks for your input on the limp mode, I am relieved as it doesn't sound like it's in it as there doesn't seem to be any difference in power and It rev's cleanly past 3000 rpm.

I have purchased the Archoil 6400-d max today and will try that and the"italian tuning style" driving once it arrives. Hopefully that does the trick, i'll let you know how it goes.

Alternatively, I have read on here that the Carly app (and plug) should be able to help diagnose this:
Do you think that it would?
Have you (or anyone) had any experience with it?
Anyone know the best/cheapest place to get the plug/Wifi component?
the engine to prompt a regeneration needs to be run at more than 2000 RPM and the car must be on operating temperature.

with the Archoil even if you have the issue of temperature (both of the thermostats shot) or that you glow plug/relay have issues ( another very common issue) the regeneration will happen passively instead of actively.

i use ISTA ( i have as well Inpa) never used carly so i don't know sorry i am sure there is loads on this forum that will be able to help you with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all your input guys.

Here are some photos of the fault as well as some diagnostics.

This time around my scan tool picked up a fault code showing P14A7. On the net it says "Diesel Particulate Filter System Flow Resistance Too High" and the possible causes could be:
-Faulty Diesel Particulate Filter System Flow Sensor
-Diesel Particulate Filter System Flow Sensor harness is open or shorted
-Diesel Particulate Filter System Flow Sensor circuit poor electrical connection

Any one have any thoughts/experiences with this and which of the three (or something else) is the most likeliest cause?

Also, my freeze frame data shows that the coolant temp was 63C at the time of the fault however the temp is 83C-84C at idle (see graph). Does this mean my thermostats are stuffed? If so, could/would this be the cause of the DPF issue?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,503 Posts
Yes, you need a new thermostat. Then clear codes.
But even with that my understanding is that message will keep coming up until you do something about the dpf, which may not be needed.


Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yes, you need a new thermostat. Then clear codes.
But even with that my understanding is that message will keep coming up until you do something about the dpf, which may not be needed.


Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest
Thanks. Do you know if this is a relatively straight forward DIY? if so, could you point me in the right direction on how to do it as there is not much on youtube with regard to that?
 

·
Nuclear engineer
02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 99K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
Joined
·
17,463 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Hi All, thank you for all your advice.

After a little more research on this website and X-outpost, it sounds like you are all right. My problems sound like it all stems from the thermostat which is stopping the regeneration process (due to low coolant/motor temp) thus raising the warning/fault.

I sincerely apologise, I should have did a bit more research on these websites.

I am going to get a professional to do all this work as it looks like a messy job to do it myself. Thanks for all your help, I will post up the results in case it helps anyone else out in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
For reference, I was quoted $750 to replace the thermostat by the BMW dealer I bought my 35d from; however, the quote was their internal cost to do it as apart of the sale agreement, not how much they charge someone walking in...

I had them take half the quoted cost off the sale price, instead of doing the repair & adding half the cost to the sale price. If you're systematic & detail oriented, I bet you could do it without much fuss, albeit probably a bit of cussing.

If you're planning on maintaining this car yourself, I'd actually encourage you to do the thermostat & water pump yourself to get familiar with some of the stuff you're likely going to have to remove and / or replace in the future (ie high pressure EGR, vacuum lines, EGR valve, CCV tube, leaky high-pressure side intake seals, intake manifold, harmonic balancer, alternator, glow plug module, etc...). Doing it yourself will give a good opportunity to dig around & familiarize yourself w/ the various components that may fail as mileage increases.

If you're dead set on having some else do the work, which I can't fault you for, considering the weather, find an independent shop w/ a good reputation. I've made mistakes in the past calling some random shop to do work who quoted a very low price, where they didn't reassemble things right & I had to go back in to connect vacuum lines & connectors that they forgot to do... A simple look on their google & facebook reviews would have saved me the headache...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the tip SPL15.
Geezus, if all that stuff is common to fail in these models then I might just fix this thermostat problem and sell the car. I love the X5 (BMW's for that matter) but it seems like they purposely design these so you have to remove a mountain of parts to get to the one you want.
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
22,792 Posts
For reference, I was quoted $750 to replace the thermostat by the BMW dealer I bought my 35d from; however, the quote was their internal cost to do it as apart of the sale agreement, not how much they charge someone walking in...
.
Yeah, the off the street price is 625.

:angel:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
I said that these parts "MAY fail" as mileage increases, NOT that they will fail... These parts have been more commonly reported to fail at high mileage, but there are plenty of folks w/ high mileage who've not had to replace these things, or simply do the preventative maintenance during a free weekend before things actually fail.

On these types of forums, there is an inherent & significant bias towards folks posting issues, than folks simply posting how awesome & problem free their car has been ;)

It's really not that bad to remove all the front engine stuff, just a lot of bolts & pieces that you quickly familiarize yourself with... WAY more intimidating than it actually is hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
So I just did a quick run to the next suburb and now i notice that the car has a rough idle, its not all over the place and it sounds at the same interval every time. I also notice that the car is holding the first 3 gears for longer (as if its in sport mode) and shifts just after 3000rpm.

The rough idle is only happening in neutral but not in drive.

When i started the car back up (after about an hour) it was idling smoothly and on my return trip back (5-7 min) and at home the rough idle didn't happen however it was still holding the gears longer.

Does this sound like its in limp mode? If not, any thoughts?

ps. The coolant temps never got over 84C.
 
1 - 20 of 64 Posts
Top