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Ok....I have an e90 with sports package....with the pirelli tires.....anyways, I take my car in today for the 1st service...got oil changed, and the new computer updates.....then they tell me that I need new tires....that the rear tires are to the "wear bar"....and the front tires are "cupping"?? anyways....I just want to know how normal this is? They say the tires should typically last around 25-30k miles.....They told me that the tire pressure was high in the rear, and low in the front which could have caused excessive wearing on the tires...I said I hadnt gotten any warnings or anything from the car saying tire pressure was off, and they said that it wont tell me if all 4 tires are off...only if 1 is under pressure......ok....well I told them that I had not touched the tires since I bought it, and if the tires were set up incorrectly when I bought it, then its not my fault and BMW should replace the tires..or at least give me a BIG discount...by the way, $1100 is what I was quoted for the replacement run flats (including labor).......I was also told that the 5 series has a warranty call back or something with the front tires "cupping"..so I should maybe look into that........So my questions is...what do I do? I mean....my family just bought 2 E90s from them in less than a year, and paid pretty close to sticker price (since I bought mine in May 2005).....should I really agree to pay $1100 for new tires after only 16k miles??? especially when they tell me it is probably due to improper tire pressure, which I had no reason to know...yeah, I could have checked them manually, but is it REALLY my fault? They brag about how great the onboard computer is and will let me know if my tires need air pressure, and this and that...so I figured everything was fine.....please HELP! thanks for any info...
 

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Hm..from my limited knowledge, the performance tires are supposed to last 15-20K miles only. With mellow driving, you could make them last 25k (but if you do, you should not have had performance tires to begin with).

Eitherway, its normal for them to wear off quick. They are made of a stickier compound that holds them onto the road.

thats the price you pay for performance!
 

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That's about all you would normally get with the sport package. 3 series eats tires. My last three 3 series got new tires every 15k.

Cheap hard tires last a long time. Soft grippy tires last at lot less.

Some folks may get a little more, depends how you drive.

On an M3, tires last around 10k, Porsche 911, 7k. Acura NSX 5k. Hyundai Sonata 50k.

Any questions?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yeah..I mean...I can understand that...but your also comparing a Porsche 911, and NSX to an E90...dont get me wrong, I love my car probably more than I should! but....its still a 4 door sports sedan....not an M3 or tire melting NSX......i mean, maybe your right.....but I guess my biggest problem is they are telling me I should get 30k miles with them...and that the reason for excessive wear is due to tire pressure that I never knew about.....its like they were blaming the tire wear on how the car was set up, not because it was typical to need new tires at 16k miles....know what I mean?
 

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campbell1082 said:
yeah..I mean...I can understand that...but your also comparing a Porsche 911, and NSX to an E90...dont get me wrong, I love my car probably more than I should! but....its still a 4 door sports sedan....not an M3 or tire melting NSX......i mean, maybe your right.....but I guess my biggest problem is they are telling me I should get 30k miles with them...and that the reason for excessive wear is due to tire pressure that I never knew about.....its like they were blaming the tire wear on how the car was set up, not because it was typical to need new tires at 16k miles....know what I mean?
I understand your frustration, but it is up to the owner of the vehicle to check tire pressure, oil, fluids, etc.

I don't believe anyone is getting 30k miles on sport tires unless they drive in a straight line and never turn.

If you bitched and moaned, you might get $100 bucks since any tire company will prorate the wear.
 

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chuck92103 said:
On an M3, tires last around 10k, Porsche 911, 7k. Acura NSX 5k.

Damn!!!!!! that is some serious costs for the 911 or NSX!!!! I had no idea. What was a new set costing you for each of those cars. :dunno:

I'm hoping to get 20 but more than likely it will be 15 or so with my 330. This is my first bmw and I'm learning as most of us first time owners that performance comes with a price. )
 

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schley said:
Damn!!!!!! that is some serious costs for the 911 or NSX!!!! I had no idea. What was a new set costing you for each of those cars. :dunno:

I'm hoping to get 20 but more than likely it will be 15 or so with my 330. This is my first bmw and I'm learning as most of us first time owners that performance comes with a price. )
I never owned a 911 or NSX. NSX/Acura) was sued since they did not initially disclose the tire wear issue and lost. 911's with the low low profiles is around 7-10k and that is what my friend gets in his 911.

The class-action suit was regarding the pretty extreme tire
wear on the NSX. The rears can go in as little as 3000 miles (less
than 10000 miles is typical). This is due to the large amounts of
negative camber Honda set in the NSX (to aid cornering) and the soft
compound Yokohama tires. Honda settled the suit by sending to
original owners of the cars three tire certificates. Each certificate
is valid for (a) a pair of rear tires, installed, or (b) $500 off a
new Acura, or (c) $166.67 cash.

Honda also reduced the negative camber from '94 on.
 

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The NSX -tires- wear quickly due the eway the wheels are aligned. The -tires- are always scrubbing, even going in a straight line. If I'm correct, the fronts point outwards, and the rears inwards. It tenses up the suspension for instant steering response.
 

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campbell1082 said:
Ok....I have an e90 with sports package....with the pirelli tires.....anyways, I take my car in today for the 1st service...got oil changed, and the new computer updates.....then they tell me that I need new tires....that the rear tires are to the "wear bar"....and the front tires are "cupping"?? anyways....I just want to know how normal this is? They say the tires should typically last around 25-30k miles.....They told me that the tire pressure was high in the rear, and low in the front which could have caused excessive wearing on the tires...I said I hadnt gotten any warnings or anything from the car saying tire pressure was off, and they said that it wont tell me if all 4 tires are off...only if 1 is under pressure......ok....well I told them that I had not touched the tires since I bought it, and if the tires were set up incorrectly when I bought it, then its not my fault and BMW should replace the tires..or at least give me a BIG discount...by the way, $1100 is what I was quoted for the replacement run flats (including labor).......I was also told that the 5 series has a warranty call back or something with the front tires "cupping"..so I should maybe look into that........So my questions is...what do I do? I mean....my family just bought 2 E90s from them in less than a year, and paid pretty close to sticker price (since I bought mine in May 2005).....should I really agree to pay $1100 for new tires after only 16k miles??? especially when they tell me it is probably due to improper tire pressure, which I had no reason to know...yeah, I could have checked them manually, but is it REALLY my fault? They brag about how great the onboard computer is and will let me know if my tires need air pressure, and this and that...so I figured everything was fine.....please HELP! thanks for any info...
Campell,

On the sidewall of the tire there are numerical ratings for traction, temperature and wear.

It'll be a three digit number (120, 200 etc.). Look to see what the wear rating is and compare it to your experience. If the tire is not living up to its advertised wear rating, you're entitled to compensation.

Ed
 

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EdCT said:
Campell,

On the sidewall of the tire there are numerical ratings for traction, temperature and wear.

It'll be a three digit number (120, 200 etc.). Look to see what the wear rating is and compare it to your experience. If the tire is not living up to its advertised wear rating, you're entitled to compensation.

Ed
The tire rating number can only be compared to tires within the same manufacturer.

For example, A Bridgstone with a tread wear rating of 300, will last up to twice as long as a Bridgestone tire with a tread wear rating of 150.
 

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campbell1082 said:
yeah..I mean...I can understand that...but your also comparing a Porsche 911, and NSX to an E90...dont get me wrong, I love my car probably more than I should! but....its still a 4 door sports sedan....not an M3 or tire melting NSX......i mean, maybe your right.....but I guess my biggest problem is they are telling me I should get 30k miles with them...and that the reason for excessive wear is due to tire pressure that I never knew about.....its like they were blaming the tire wear on how the car was set up, not because it was typical to need new tires at 16k miles....know what I mean?
If you went 16.000 miles without checking and adjusting your tire pressure, I don't think you can hold anyone responsible except for yourself.
 

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On the Sport Package E90 tires, the tread wear rating is 140, vs. 320 on the standard 16 inch all weather tires on the 325i. No surprise which tire will last longer. That is the downside of high performance tires. My experience with high performance tires on other vehicles:
- Honda S2000. Replace rear tires at 15,000 miles. Replace all 4 at 28,000. Cost for a set of 4, slightly different than OEM: $1000.

- Volvo S60 R. Replace all 4 tires at 18,000. The original Pirellis would have been more than $1300, so I got [Bridgestone] Fuzion ZRi's for about $750 a set. The original Pirellis had a rating of 140; the Fuzions are rated 300.

As best I can figure out, working with BMW dealer and going through vehicle search, only a fairly small percentage are produced with the Sport Package, and that may mean that in the replacement market, finding a reasonable priced substitute may be difficult.
 

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jelliotlevy said:
On the Sport Package E90 tires, the tread wear rating is 140, vs. 320 on the standard 16 inch all weather tires on the 325i. No surprise which tire will last longer. That is the downside of high performance tires. My experience with high performance tires on other vehicles:
- Honda S2000. Replace rear tires at 15,000 miles. Replace all 4 at 28,000. Cost for a set of 4, slightly different than OEM: $1000.

- Volvo S60 R. Replace all 4 tires at 18,000. The original Pirellis would have been more than $1300, so I got [Bridgestone] Fuzion ZRi's for about $750 a set. The original Pirellis had a rating of 140; the Fuzions are rated 300.

As best I can figure out, working with BMW dealer and going through vehicle search, only a fairly small percentage are produced with the Sport Package, and that may mean that in the replacement market, finding a reasonable priced substitute may be difficult.
You can only compare ratings between the same brand.The manufacturer takes a tire as baseline and assigns it a rating of 100. Then all the other tires in its line are giving a rating relative to the baseline.

so for exmaple,

Tire A - Michelin - rating 150
Tire B - Michelin - rating 300
Tire C - Dunlop - rating 300
Tire D - Dunlop - rating 600

In the example above, all you can say is tire B will last twice is long a tire A, and Tire D wll past twice as long as tire C.

Tire A may get 15k miles, and B 30k miles. However, this does not mean tire D will get 60k miles.

You can have two brands of tires, say Michelin and Dunlop each with a rating of 300. One could get 8k miles, the other 50k miles.

Get it? :dunno:
 

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Not sure I agree. The acronym UTQG stands for Uniform Tire Quality Grading. In addition to the traction and temperature standards, I thought it also referred to a defined friction test which measured rates of rubber wear-off. Perhaps there is a tire industry employee out there who can answer definitvely; I have been known to be wrong on a few select occasions.
 

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jelliotlevy said:
Not sure I agree. The acronym UTQG stands for Uniform Tire Quality Grading. In addition to the traction and temperature standards, I thought it also referred to a defined friction test which measured rates of rubber wear-off. Perhaps there is a tire industry employee out there who can answer definitvely; I have been known to be wrong on a few select occasions.
It's the government, go figure. Here is a good write up from TireRack. It reinforces what I said earlier.

"The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful."

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
 

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Also, my current tires are 19" Bridgstone runflats, have a UTQG rating of 140. Yet folks on this board are reporting 25-30k miles on their tires before replacement.

With my previous 3 series, the rating was around 240, yet I never seem to get above 15k-20k miles.

So even though my tires are more expensive, the additional mileage makes them cheaper to use from a cost per mile standpoint. About 75% less expensive.
 

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jelliotlevy said:
On the Sport Package E90 tires, the tread wear rating is 140.
:yikes: WOW! My M3's Michelin PS/2's have a treadwear rating of 220 and those are some of the best street performance tires you can get. Plus I abuse the **** out of them track/autoX/tripple digit and donuts and get 10k out of those, I figured that the runflat sports would have a higher tread rating than 140, thats way soft and I am betting this is going to be a common experience here, especially if you drive the car hard at all. I am not supprised that the rears are gone w/ the negative camber BMW puts on all rears. The fronts cupping is indicative of a bad balance or bad shocks, I've cupped tires from both.
 

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If I understand your post correctly you didn't check your tire pressures yourself for 16K miles?

In my S2000 OEM S02 tires lasted 6K miles and that was fairly expensive but in the C5 Z06 OEM F1SC tires lasted about 8K miles and they were holy-crap expensive ($1250 a set from tirerack -- Kumho Ecsta MX's were not quite as good in the dry but only $800 a set).

If I get >15K miles a set on the 330i I'll be happy but you can see where expectations vary!
 

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Penforhire said:
If I understand your post correctly you didn't check your tire pressures yourself for 16K miles?

In my S2000 OEM S02 tires lasted 6K miles and that was fairly expensive but in the C5 Z06 OEM F1SC tires lasted about 8K miles and they were holy-crap expensive ($1250 a set from tirerack -- Kumho Ecsta MX's were not quite as good in the dry but only $800 a set).

If I get >15K miles a set on the 330i I'll be happy but you can see where expectations vary!
You read it correctly, he said:
"well I told them that I had not touched the tires since I bought it, and if the tires were set up incorrectly when I bought it..."
 

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Jspira said:
If you went 16.000 miles without checking and adjusting your tire pressure, I don't think you can hold anyone responsible except for yourself.
:stupid:

OT: Can this thread possibly hold this many links for tires without exploding?!

Lets see: tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires tires fires (gotcha!) tires tires tires tires ... oh, I'm getting tired... lol
 
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