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Discussion Starter #1
My daughter has not used her petrol 2007 M Sport 320i since last October, due to a problem with the heater, covered on another thread, that is still causing a problem

I started to use the car last weekend rather than have it stood any longer. The battery had been flat, but it charged up and fine all weekend, probably started 10 times for short journeys

On Monday I took it on a 4 hour journey. When I stopped, I noticed the side lights were on, I tried to start the car but it would not turn over

I purchased a new battery, 110 Ah 900 amp cranking, it started the car and I drove home with the same result, side lights on and not able to restart the car

I have charged the original battery and it is still holding its charge, even with both batteries fully charged and connected together, the side lights are still on and the car will now not turn over at all. The alternator is not getting warm, so I don't think the short is in there

I didn’t have an ammeter at my daughter’s to test for a drain on the battery, but did have a volt meter. When I connected between the earth cable and the earth post on the battery there was a big negative deflection, so I am guessing a short somewhere

Before I hook-up an ammeter and start pulling fuses, which are not easy to get to, does anyone have a crystal ball and suggest a starting point?

Many thanks

Tony
 

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... petrol 2007 M Sport 320i...On Monday I took it on a 4 hour journey. When I stopped, I noticed the side lights were on, I tried to start the car but it would not turn over [I understand this to mean that within a minute or two of completing a 4-hour journey, the starter would NOT crank the engine?] I purchased a new battery, 110 Ah 900 amp cranking, it started the car and I drove home with the same result, side lights on and not able to restart the car. I have charged the original battery and it is still holding its charge, even with both batteries fully charged and connected together, the side lights are still on and the car will now not turn over at all... did have a volt meter. When I connected between the earth cable and the earth post on the battery there was a big negative deflection, so I am guessing a short somewhere
I'm NOT understanding why you think there is a short or the battery is "going flat" due to parasitic drain. That doesn't account for how on TWO occasions, the 2nd with a NEW Battery, the Starter would NOT crank after a 4 -hour journey. Sounds to me like you have:
(1) a bad alternator/voltage regulator, or
(2) a bad ground, or
(3) a bad Starter.

Suggested Steps/Tests:

(1) Check to see that ONE of the batteries is properly installed, with battery cables properly attached, and the IBS properly connected (a) wire from Power Distribution Panel to IBS for measuring battery voltage, & (b) blue connector to BSD Bus above negative battery post. If any doubts or questions about either, post back.

(2) Measure battery voltage on the battery posts in the trunk, and record voltage.

(3) Measure voltage at the Jumpstart Terminals under the bonnet, and record voltage.

(4) If voltage >12.0V try to crank Starter. If no crank, have someone else press brake pedal & START button while you listen over left wing for any click at the starter solenoid.

(5) Attach a Jumper Cable between the negative Jumpstart Terminal (hex stud with black ground "comb" attached) and a clean, bright metal fitting/component of the engine head/block (applying a temporary ground connection as test of ground strap under right side), and once again try to crank Starter.

6) Measure battery voltage again, at the Jumpstart Terminals.

7) If Battery Voltage >12V, with ignition on (engine off ;-) test exterior lights in ALL headlight switch positions, Automatic, Headlights, Parking/Sidelights, Fog lights, Emergency flashers, blinkers. Also test interior lamps for proper operation. This is to test FRM (Footwell Module) function, and also power supply to FRM. List ANYTHING that does NOT work properly.

Post your test results, and someone can suggest next steps.
George
 

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Discussion Starter #4
George,

Thank you for taking the time to detail this, it is most appreciated

I have done some of what you are suggesting, but not all

I will do it as described and record the results

Tony
 

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Hi ckev70,

If all else fails, I will get someone to check the fault codes

George

The results of your questions:
1. Battery correctly installed, all wires and connections double checked because I had to disconnect most of them to take the battery out
2. Battery voltage before connecting leads 12.85V, after connecting leads because running lights came on immediately, 12.41
3. Voltage at Jumpstart same at 12.41V
4. No clicking noise when trying to start
5. Applied two jumper cables from negative Jumpstart to different clean earth points, no cranking
6. Voltage at Jumpstart terminals 12.40V
7. Everything tested including horn, wipers, screen washers, brake lights, it was at this point that I thought the sidelights were on continuously, but it is the running lights.
The only equipment not working are all of the interior lights when the door is open, but does work if I turn them on manually. Just realised that I should have checked passenger door!

Additional information:

I tried starting with both batteries connected, 13.27V, no difference, no cranking

When turning on ignition, full display of test lamps on the dash do not appear, just parking brake and airbag. Airbag light goes off after a couple of seconds, if Start button held for longer than 5 seconds all lights go off including Time and Date on radio panel. Obviously radio is off all of the time

Connected meter to Jumpstart terminals again, now showing 12.36V because running lights on continuously, but when trying to start voltage increased to 12.49V. Cleaned the connections to make sure of poor contacts and tried three more times, each time an increase in voltage when trying to start

The carpets in the car had been wet previously due to water running through the doors, I stripped the door panels and re-glued the plastic lining which stopped the water coming in, but not before the condensation had damaged the dash clocks which I had to replace.
Although I sucked out most of the water, on occasions there is still condensation on the inside of the windows due to outside temperature. Would this suggest the Footwell Module you mentioned?

Another thing, as I atated the car has not been used for several months, after a few weeks the running lights would come on and the alarm would beep intermittently. I presumed this was a normal feature indicating that the battery was getting low, because after an overnight charge, the battery would last for another few weeks, before doing the same thing. Is this a normal feature of the BMW or has this fault been getting worse for months?

Thank you

Tony
 

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...If all else fails, I will get someone to check the fault codes [actually, that might be a good place to start, to see if there is a fault in the CAS module memory related to "Start Disable"]...
[Current/NEW findings]: running lights on continuously...The carpets in the car had been wet previously due to water running through the doors...Another thing, as I stated the car has not been used for several months, after a few weeks the running lights would come on and the alarm would beep intermittently...
New Details suggest an Alarm System Starter Immobilization, but see below. Water ingress, particularly if the JB & JBE are wet, may be the cause of your issue. I would suggest examining them for any wetness or corrosion of connectors, and drying thoroughly with heat gun. Perhaps Lower Microfilter Housing attachment at the cowl (above the JB) is loose, or gasket is damaged, allowing water ingress?

Thanks for reporting back on your tests. It would appear that the battery has enough voltage to crank the starter, the voltage is getting transferred to the Jumpstart Terminal under the bonnet, the battery does NOT fail the Starter load test (or actually there is NO Starter load applied to the battery when START is pressed -- no click), AND that the FRM module (which controls the lights) is functioning (that wouldn't affect CAS activation of the Starter anyway, but just wanted to try to understand the significance of running lights being on.

In the questions I posed in my prior post, I did NOT take into account the possibility of "Start Immobilization." From your last post, it appears that something in the "unknown to me" security system MAY be causing (1) immobilization of Starter, and (2) activation of the lights that should NOT be on. If disconnection of the battery for the length of time it was disconnected when you replaced it after 4-hour journey causes a "reset" of the alarm system and allows activation of the starter, that might confirm my SWAG.

My 2007 328xi E91 does NOT have a security system or start mobilizer (AFAIK ;-) and I have been unable to find anything definitive in TIS related to any immobilizer. There IS however an interesting wire that runs from the JBE to the CAS, shown next to the Steering Lock & the Starter Activation wires, in the CAS circuit diagram, Pin #29 of CAS Connector X13376. The JBE (Junction Box Electronics) module "pinout" calls that "Signal, Central Arrest Motor." That MAY be the Start Immobilizer signal, but that is ONLY a SWAG.

For obvious "security" reasons, BMW doesn't make it easy for someone to understand the security system or Start Immobilizer, at least I haven't been able to find it.

ANYONE who knows that system and can help, please don't be shy. :)

Here are some possibly-relevant TIS circuit diagrams for the 320i E92 built between 3/1/2007 & 9/1/2007. If the 2007 vehicle in question was built BEFORE 3/1/2007 (see door plate) then at least the fuse designations would be different -- you can drill down & select correct (-2007/02) build date range. These include CAS circuit diagram, Alarm System, JBE Pinout, and "Installation Location" of Siren & Tilt Sensor (H1b) above LR Wheel:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-320i-cou/uNYjfvY
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...cking-security-functions/alarm-system/ulnsi0N
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...dules/a4010a-junction-box-electronics/ZLgI4Nw

Note that the TIS circuit diagrams are "Interactive" meaning you can rest the cursor on any BLUE component ID# to see the name of the component, and you can click on that component to see additional information, including "Installation Location," "Connector View" or other component wiring diagrams.

Please let us know what you find,
George
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi George,

Thank you for all of this

It will be next weekend now before I will have the opportunity to investigate further

I work away from home through the week, but look forward to working through your detailed observations

I will keeo you informed

Warm regards

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
So***8230;..***8230;....

Just been across to the car armed with a borrowed computer

Connected the battery which had been disconnected for a week, put the key in, handbrake and seat belt lights came on, tried to start the car, it made an attempt to crank the starter, all of the dash lights came on and when I tried the starter again it fired up immediately and all dash lights went out

When I was using the car with the faults it was 4 deg F, this last week it has been a sunbathing 62 deg F, does the car need to move to a warmer climate? :)

Switched off, connected the computer and ran the tests

Results:
Engine 15 fault codes
CDAE
30E9
30EA
2F11
2DEC
2E83
2AF4
2AF2
2AEC
2C32
2AF9
2ACC
2DEB
29E1
Plus 1 camera out of focus

Instrument 4 fault codes
9314
A559
A3C1
A3b4

Immobiliser 13 fault codes
9D11
9D12
9D44
9338
A0BE
A0BF
A0C0
A0C1
9D00

Some of the codes more than once

Removed all fault codes and ran again

Results:
No Engine faults
No Instrument faults

Immobiliser 4 fault codes
A0BE
A0BF
A0C0
9338

Tried to start car again, running lights had come on, no cranking and battery at 12.12 volts
Connected my car with jump leads showing 14.35 volts, but still no cranking

Cleared codes and ran test again

Immobiliser 4 fault codes
A0BE
A0BF
A0C0
9338

Multifunction 11 fault codes
9CAC
9CB5
9CD5
9CD4
E599
E597
9CAB
E594
9CD8
A669
A66E

Cleared fault codes and ran again

Results
Immobiliser 4 fault codes
A0BE
A0BF
A0C0
9338

Restraints 1 fault code
93C2

Multifunction 2 fault codes
9CAB
A669

Gave up at this point
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
A further update

Have just been to the car again, connected the battery, no running lights came on and I knew it was going to start, it did

So leaving it for 10 hours allows something to reset
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So....

If the car is left with the battery disconnected for a length of time, when the battery is reconnected it will start immediately

After letting it idle for 5 minutes, switch it off and the running lights come and it will not crank

From the fault codes, there seems to be two possibilities for A0C0


System: Car Access System
BMW System: CAS
Type: Drive
A0BE - Terminal 15 output 1

System: Car Access System
BMW System: CAS
Type: Drive
A0BF - Terminal 15 output 2

System: Car Access System
BMW System: CAS
Type: Drive
A0C0 - Terminal 15 output 3

System: Comfort Access
BMW System: CA
Type: Body
A0C0 - Outside door handle, passenger's door, rear, anti-play protection active

When it refers to Terminal 15 output 1, is it suggesting that there is no power present and where can I find it on the car?

Also is it possible that the problem is with the starter switch on the clutch pedal, I can***8217;t see anything inside the car, is the switch on the clutch master cylinder?

Why does leaving it for a few hours resolve the issue and what does the running lights signify?

Any suggestions gratefully received

Thank you

Tony
 

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So...If the car is left with the battery disconnected for a length of time, when the battery is reconnected it will start immediately. After letting it idle for 5 minutes, switch it off and the running lights come and it will not crank...

System: Car Access System
BMW System: CAS
Type: Drive
A0C0 - Terminal 15 output 3

System: Comfort Access
BMW System: CA
Type: Body
A0C0 - Outside door handle, passenger's door, rear, anti-play protection active

When it refers to Terminal 15 output 1, is it suggesting that there is no power present and where can I find it on the car? Also is it possible that the problem is with the starter switch on the clutch pedal, I can't see anything inside the car, is the switch on the clutch master cylinder? Why does leaving it for a few hours resolve the issue and what does the running lights signify? Tony
Hi Tony,

As stated previously it appears the problem is that the alarm system "immobilizer" is preventing the CAS Module from activating the Starter when START button is pressed with clutch depressed. That does NOT mean there is something wrong with the clutch switch. What causes me to think the "Immobilizer" is the fault source is that you indicate the "side lights" are on any time the Starter is NOT activated by pressing START button, and you also indicate the warning horn has sounded when car is closed and "asleep."

As stated earlier, I do NOT have an alarm system and have NOT been able to find any additional information on the Immobilizer circuit other than the three TIS links I provided in Post #6 in this thread (above). I would suggest that you go to this TIS Home page, enter the last 7 characters of the VIN, and search for any information you can find related to the immobilizer or alarm system:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

You have NOT indicated the Build Month/Year, and there are different electrical circuits for 2007 models built AFTER 3/1/2007, as compared to "<2/2007." It would also be helpful to indicate what software you are using on the laptop to read codes.

INPA has multiple levels of diagnostics. You can read codes in all modules just to get started. Then you connect to the specific module in question (here the CAS module) to get more detailed fault information, beginning with definition of each code, and also possibly "Freeze Frame Data" or other details, such as mileage/km when fault code saved in module memory, if fault has occurred multiple times, etc.

With INPA, you can also test for inputs from various sources (such as Clutch Switch -- almost certainly NOT your problem ;-), and if your vehicle has an immobilizer, it MAY give readout of the alarm system status. I don't have an alarm so I can't verify that. If you DO have INPA or ISTA, please let us know and perhaps someone can suggest tests that can be performed to locate the fault source.

Terminal 15 is simply the JB terminal that is activated when the "Terminal 15 Relay, IO1069" is activated by pressing the START button with remote key in slot. That is same as "Ignition ON." Here is the TIS circuit diagram for the JB, and shows Kl.15 & IO1969 (Terminal 15 and Terminal 15 Relay) near the center of the schematic:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...l-units-modules/a4010-junction-box/1VnYK9i0zy

Once again, if the issue is caused by a fault in the alarm system, which causes the Immobilizer to prevent the CAS from sending the Start signal to the Starter Solenoid when START button is pressed, there is NOT a failure of any other component or connection OTHER than the alarm system, and unfortunately I don't have any more clues on how that system is wired. Time to consult the Dealer or Supplier of the alarm system.

EDIT: I did a search on IMMOBILIZER for the 320i and got the following link. Since some of those are engine-dependent, and I don't know anything about the 320i, I simply suggest you identify any Connector/Pin in the "Pinout" for the CAS & DME Modules in the links contained, and then go to the proper circuit for your vehicle and see if you can figure out how to "Disable the Immobilizer" :)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e90-320i-lim/search?q=immobilizer

Hope you get it sorted,
George
 

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Discussion Starter #12
George

Thank you for your continued support, I will follow your instructions and report back

Tony
 

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Hi George,

It’s been a while, but I thought I should update you with events, although this may be a mistake ***128522;

I returned to my daughter’s car about this time last year with all of your suggestions, only to find the battery fully charged with none of the previously mentioned faults

I cautiously drove the car on a few sort journey’s expecting the fault to appear when I switched the car off, but all was well and that has been the case for the last 12 months

All that I can think of was the original fault was down to condensation shorting something out and resetting after 24 hours

I do remember last March being unusually warm for the time of year and there being no condensation since I sealed the plastic inside the door cards and dried out the carpets
Once again thank you for all your advice

I do have another problem regarding the lack of heat and will start a new thread for that

Tony
 
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