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Discussion Starter #1
INFORMATIONAL CONTENT:
For anyone who wants to ACTUALLY understand the basic CONCEPTS of Power Management in our E9x vehicles, I offer two BMW Training Manuals in searchable pdf format, attached below for your download. Pages 5-11 of Power Management are essential basics. Later pages may discuss things NOT applicable to E9x models, so be aware that is NOT just for E9x models.

Two Wikipedia links you may find helpful: (1) “Hydraulic Analogy” (flow of electricity analogous to water flow in pipes), and (2) “Load Test/Car Charging System” which is basically what is done to determine SoH (State of Health) of the battery every time the E9x engine is started; SoH data saved in DME & can be read by INPA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_analogy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_testing#Car_charging_system

I am NOT telling you what CONCEPTS “YOU should have.” I am simply offering references to information BMW provides when training people working on their vehicles, and linking Wikipedia articles that discuss some basic CONCEPTS on electricity. How deep into the Weeds/Details you want to go is up to you, based upon your physics training & proclivity, time available for Weed-whacking & perceived need to apply those details. :)

MY CONCEPTS:
I would suggest approaching the subject from the standpoint of simply (1) learning the very basic physics involved in electrical systems, such as (a) Volts = Pressure, (b) Amps = Flow Rate, (c) Ohms = Resistance, AND (2) gaining CONCEPTS that work for YOU to explain what those silly little (can’t see them ;-) electrons are doing under all that insulation. :yikes:

For the "technically-fastidious": "=" above means only "analagous to" and NOT "equal to."
For those of you either inclined to gratuitously use technical terms, or those on the other end of the spectrum who are confused or turned-off by such terms, I can’t resist stating: I have done a word search on EACH of the two BMW Training Manuals attached, and NEITHER contains the word Coulomb. :tsk:

I have been regularly following BMW E9x forums for the last 21 months. During that time, I have seen MANY different views/ concepts expressed related to Power Supply, Energy Management, Power Management, Function of Battery, IBS, DME PM module, etc.

My impression from reading many posts on the subject is that most people either (1) don’t have working CONCEPTS of the very basic physics of electricity, or how BMW Power Management actually works, OR (2) they become lost in the WEEDS, either confused by the highly technical details, or unable to conceptualize or explain in simple terms an electrical phenomenon that can’t be seen like mechanical systems.

The references I offer here are a compromise between two extremes:
1) total LACK of understanding/CONCEPTS of physics/electricity;
2) graduate level study in that physics, often accompanied by disdain for lesser mortals. :)

Whatever your level of knowledge to this point, I hope you will take the time to review these, particularly pages 5-11 of Power Management, and assess your CONCEPTS. I welcome any feedback including sharing your own concepts, at least as long as those are based on identified facts.

BTW, if you are going to try to keep your BMW (or any other car) battery & electrical system in shape, I would suggest getting a basic battery charger ($30-$40) & basic multimeter ($6) and learn how to use them (if you buy from HFT, pdf manual downloads are available). INPA is optional for those who want to be self-sufficient and NOT have to pay Dealers/ Indy shops for diagnostics.

Final Editorial comment: Battery Registration (Batterietausch Registrieren) is NOTHING more than entering current vehicle mileage in a text field to save a record of mileage at which battery was changed. When you hit the F5 key in INPA after connecting to the Power Management Module in the DME, that module saves the mileage/km existing on the odometer at that moment, whether you installed a new battery or not. That entry (whether you do it intentionally or by accident ;-) is INFORMATIONAL only and does NOT affect battery SoC, SoH, SOS, SOB, or anything else. :)

George
 

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So you are saying registration is bogus and the charging
system will adjust to whatever it measures from the battery.
However when you change the profile for a different size
battery or battery type it might make a difference.
 

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Kostspieliger Spaß Quandt
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So you are saying registration is bogus and the charging
system will adjust to whatever it measures from the battery.
However when you change the profile for a different size
battery or battery type it might make a difference.
It isn't what "George is saying" It is actual BMW stated operational specs. SoC and SoH are updated at KL15 (ignition on) so whatever was there prior is overwritten. The recording of the battery install date is for Tech reference only. There are different versions of IBS and I think folk get mixed up with Fxx IBS.
 

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It isn't what "George is saying" It is actual BMW stated operational specs. SoC and SoH are updated at KL15 (ignition on) so whatever was there prior is overwritten. The recording of the battery install date is for Tech reference only. There are different versions of IBS and I think folk get mixed up with Fxx IBS.


I had a consistent -3.91 SOH that I had no clue what’s supposed to mean. The only way to get rid of it was registering a new battery without actually having to physically replace it.


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk
 

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02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 99K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
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There are different versions of IBS and I think folk get mixed up with Fxx IBS.
There is one Intelligent Battery Sensor. It only reports to the ECU Coulombs in, Coulombs out, voltage and battery temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It isn't what "George is saying" It is actual BMW stated operational specs. SoC and SoH are updated at KL15 (ignition on) so whatever was there prior is overwritten. The recording of the battery install date is for Tech reference only. There are different versions of IBS and I think folk get mixed up with Fxx IBS.
Hi Ian,

You are correct, I was trying to simply offer BMW Training Manual downloads, along with simple-language physics explanations OTHERS had generated. ANY of my concepts were clearly labeled as such.

I wanted to reference you as a further authority, but decided to try to prevent "Drive-by" hostilities. :)

It's kinda-like people who have been defrauded NOT wanting to admit they were taken. :bigpimp:

And in response to ctuna, what I was saying related ONLY to "Registering" a replacement battery. It did NOT relate to entering (1) proper Ah rating or (2) Battery Type: AGM vs. LA, or even (3) Histogram Reset which essentially deletes the last 5 days of data saved, which as I understand from Ian would be over-written in 5 days/starts if you don't delete them. As Ian tried to explain several months ago, any such entries are NOT needed as long as the existing entries were done correctly and you replace the existing battery with one of same type & Ah Rating.

What I AM saying is that it appears many on this and other Forums are making the issue of Power Management MUCH more difficult and mysterious than it really is. We CAN understand the basic concepts and don't need graduate degrees in physics and umpteen pages of calculus to do so.

Simple "Registration" makes a text entry of mileage/km on odometer when F5 (INPA) button is pressed. Personally, I maintain an Access Database in which I enter the date & mileage, as well as other details, of any repairs or component replacements to multiple vehicles, so it doesn't matter at all to me if my car has the mileage/km of the last 4 battery replacements (there has only been ONE in my case) in DME\PM memory or not.

It is NOT my intention to get into any kind of contest with anyone, but rather to try to stimulate thoughtful exchange of CONCEPTS without being so "in love" with current concepts of which we have "pride of authorship" that we cannot consider and accept different, perhaps even "more correct" concepts. :yikes:

Merry Christmas!
George
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There is one Intelligent Battery Sensor. It only reports to the ECU Coulombs in, Coulombs out, voltage and battery temperature.
Hi Doug,

While "eschewing eristical argumentation" my "understanding" of your post is that the words you wrote, "There is one Intelligent Battery Sensor" admit of TWO (2) different interpretations. While it is correct (AFAIK) that there is only ONE IBS on any particular E9x at any one time, it would appear from the Power Management Training Manual pdf I attached, that the Fxx IBS is different (in capabilities & how it transmits/receives data) from that used in the E9x in a number of respects.

Perhaps reading BMW's representation of facts related to vehicles they produce and assemble might reduce our "argumentation" to discussions of differing interpretations of the language used by BMW. :)

In the last week or two it seems increasingly appropriate to restate the saying: "I am entitled to my own opinion, but I am NOT entitled to my own/ 'Alternate' FACTS." :bigpimp:

I presume you know all the above, but I'm just trying to have a little fun with the "CONCEPTS and perspectives."

George
 

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There is one Intelligent Battery Sensor. It only reports to the ECU Coulombs in, Coulombs out, voltage and battery temperature.
If you read my verbatim statement I said "different versions of IBS"

The different IBS versions support the different Power Management features, functions and capabilities that were brought out with the newer models. And yes there are even versions of the physical IBS - try this one #61219117877 in your e9x (if you have one). It comms on the LIN bus (for F0x models with Advanced Power Management) unlike an e9x that uses a binary serial data interface #61129215952. The built in micro processor also has to differ for the different power management versions.

The IBS in my e92 is #61126970685.

In the pic below the new APM and IBS (launched with the F10 & not available for e9x) has the capability to measure additional data and diagnostic calcs.
 

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...The IBS in my e92 is #61126970685...
Hi Ian,

I'm seeking your professional advice on how to best identify a particular module used in a vehicle, by BMW part number (BMWTeilenummer). This is simply academic, as my IBS is working fine (AFAIK ;-).

Using INPA, Battery Sensor Identification (Identifikation Batteriesensor, DME | F5 | F5 | F1), the attached screen appears that provides BMW Part Number: 9134854

Since that number ONLY has 7 digits instead of the 11-digits usually seen in BMW part numbers, I wasn't sure if RealOEM.com would identify a current new replacement for that part, but on entering "9134854" in the RealOEM Searchbox, it DOES recognize that number and returns the following (adding 6112 before the 7 digits searched):
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...MW-328xi&mg=61&sg=30&diagId=61_1946&q=9134854

I note that RealOEM has ALL the preceding & succeeding part numbers beginning with 6112, as does your E92 part#.

QUESTIONS:

1) HOW did you obtain the proper part# for your IBS: number saved in DME memory (or is it actually IBS memory?) or visual stamp/label on part?

2) WHAT is the meaning, significance, or "code" of the first 4 digits, "6112" in this case? Does that have some correlation to the Alternator used, DME Power Module installed, etc?

3) Is it advisable to save the "Information" (F1) and "Identification" (F2) screens for ALL modules on the vehicle for future reference in case it fails & needs to be replaced? I have done that, BOTH to understand what information is available through INPA, AND in case replacement and/or proper programming of a replacement is necessary.

I appreciate any gratus professional advice you may feel inclined to offer. If you would send me your address in a PM, I'll be happy to provide a holiday present of your choosing (certain restrictions apply ;-) Think Harry & David, assuming delivery to Toronto -- or are you BMW-South for the holidays? :D

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays,
George
 

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Kostspieliger Spaß Quandt
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Hi Ian,

I'm seeking your professional advice on how to best identify a particular module used in a vehicle, by BMW part number (BMWTeilenummer). This is simply academic, as my IBS is working fine (AFAIK ;-).

Using INPA, Battery Sensor Identification (Identifikation Batteriesensor, DME | F5 | F5 | F1), the attached screen appears that provides BMW Part Number: 9134854

Since that number ONLY has 7 digits instead of the 11-digits usually seen in BMW part numbers, I wasn't sure if RealOEM.com would identify a current new replacement for that part, but on entering "9134854" in the RealOEM Searchbox, it DOES recognize that number and returns the following (adding 6112 before the 7 digits searched):
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...MW-328xi&mg=61&sg=30&diagId=61_1946&q=9134854

I note that RealOEM has ALL the preceding & succeeding part numbers beginning with 6112, as does your E92 part#.

QUESTIONS:

1) HOW did you obtain the proper part# for your IBS: number saved in DME memory (or is it actually IBS memory?) or visual stamp/label on part?

Label on the part although you could use Real Oem too I imagine.

2) WHAT is the meaning, significance, or "code" of the first 4 digits, "6112" in this case? Does that have some correlation to the Alternator used, DME Power Module installed, etc?

BMW part numbering system classifies different components based on the first 4 numbers.

First two numbers = Main Group
Second two numbers = Sub group (of that main group)
Next 7 numbers = actual part number

61 12 9134854

61= Body electrical
12= Battery Lead/Distribution Box - Rear
9134854 - Battery cable, negative, IBS

A quick search of that particular part shows it has been superseded by a replacement part number (61129215952) but the replacement is backward compatible (Exchangeable retrospectively).



3) Is it advisable to save the "Information" (F1) and "Identification" (F2) screens for ALL modules on the vehicle for future reference in case it fails & needs to be replaced? I have done that, BOTH to understand what information is available through INPA, AND in case replacement and/or proper programming of a replacement is necessary.

If you are using ISTA-Free then there is not much you can save. I mean it's handy to know the versions of modules you have if in the future your doing module donor replacement - but the SW versions are stamped on the actual parts too. You also will not be doing any coding in ISTA-Free - mostly just maintenance stuff and the odd adaptation. For other chassis where I have done extensive coding - I.e. rewriting new values to the DME eeprom I always back up the current eeprom file so that if things went awry I can restore the original file. Not sure what you would modify with either INPA or ISTA -D that would need backed up - both are just diagnostic tools? Now WinKFP or NCS Expert are tools that will modify core module coding and should be used with caution. Coding that is done in apps like Carly is mostly just parameter selection and can always be reapplied so it is not essential - but even Carly backs up the files before rewriting.

I appreciate any gratus professional advice you may feel inclined to offer. If you would send me your address in a PM, I'll be happy to provide a holiday present of your choosing (certain restrictions apply ;-) Think Harry & David, assuming delivery to Toronto -- or are you BMW-South for the holidays? :D

George - no need - this is what forums are about - sharing info. I will be heading south in January to spend the remainder of the winter in sunny South Carolina and meeting some old BMW buds. If Santa is good to me I'm hoping to add a mint e28 to the stable in the next wee while.

I hope you and your family have a wonderful and safe Christmas and a prosperous New Year.


Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays,
George
See answers above in Blue
 
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